Re: Aliensporebomb's Roland Ready Strat Saga of 2016

Started by aliensporebomb, May 14, 2016, 03:46:35 PM

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aliensporebomb

Guitar is back.

And it's not working the way it should.
Tech wants to borrow my VG-99 to figure it out.
For how long?  He doesn't know.

Yes he has all the schematics from this site.
This is the same place that figured this stuff out easily less than 3 years ago.

What's the problem?

First - what does work:
If I plug the regular guitar quarter inch cable into the guitar it works as I'd expect.
Guitar volume works ok.
Center tone affects guitar tone on all 5 single coil pickup switch positions.

Patch up and down do work.

What doesn't work?
I get audio out from the 13-pin out but only when the center position switch is set to "mix" will I get any sound.
The other two positions are silent.

The output even though it is coming through in stereo almost sounds "mono-esque".

I get no hex processed output at all although I do get time delay effects from the VG-99, reverb and distortion sounds.
But no synth/hex sounds.

Theories:
It almost sounds like it's feeding the sound from the single coil pickups into the 13-pin output! 
I can tell this because if I use positions 2 and five I get no single coil buzz. 

What?  What are you talking about buzz?  Yes!  Positions 1, 3, 5.  Buzz!
Just like going through the quarter inch output!

I've never gotten buzz from any GK pickup before so this doesn't seem to be the GK pickup feeding the 13-pin out!
I really think it's the three single coils somehow.

No synth sounds sound, but all the remaining patches I've created sound CRAZILY different.
Some good, some not good at all.

I thought maybe my VG-99 was messed up.

Changed to my other guitar, it was fine.  So it's not the VG-99, it's the guitar.
Changed back to this one?  Same problems.

What also doesn't work:
Synth volume (3rd strat knob) no longer functions, volume is routed through the main volume pot!
It also seems like the middle tone pot controls GK tone?  What?
Never had any strat tone control affect GK tone before.  What?

I wish I had a tech closer to me who was more knowledgeable, this is nuts.

Ideas?
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

aliensporebomb

Now he wants to meet up friday.  Oy.  At least I have some time to consider options.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

gumtown

Sounds like the 3 way toggle for GK-MIX-NPU is wired all assy-boo.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Elantric

IMHO- Sounds like the tech incorrectly installed a new "on-on-on" 3-way toggle PU selector switch instead of the correct "on -off-on" 3-way type toggle switch for the three-Way  Guitar-Mix-Synth switch. It's common mistake that techs not familiar with the Roland GK circuit make, as the Roland GK 3-way Switch circuit is designed to Ground Shunt  the unused signal:

When in the "Guitar position, the 3-way Switch shunts the Synth GK Volume control signal to Ground which mutes the Synth / COSM Modeling   

When in the "Synth" position, 3-way switch Synth shunts the Guitar Signal to Ground which mutes it   

The 3-Way Switch in middle "MIX" position removes  all Ground shunts and allows both signals to sound

Have him reread the schematics  thread
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73.0

and have him verify a DPDT Center Off (On-Off-On) type switch is used for the 3-way switch.

Click here and look at SW3 Guitar-Mix-Synth switch on far left.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=73.0;attach=9749


Realize the  above "bad repair of Roland Ready Strat" scenario explains why so many of these guitars are sold "as is" on EBay. The success rate for the typical Luthier to implement a proper repair of the Roland Ready Strat is 10% -explains why I have posted a proper schematic of the Roland Ready Strat/ GC-1 ( both use identical internal wiring )

And as always it's important to take lots of pics before plugging in the soldering  iron.

gumbo

Yep...sounds like Elantric's diagnosis...   ;)
..that switch is a trap for young players!
Read slower!!!   ....I'm typing as fast as I can...

aliensporebomb

#30
Steve - thanks for your info.  I agree, most luthiers don't know it and this guy is a local roland service tech who's worked on their keyboards and modules but apparently not the guitar side much.   It's weird how this technology has been around for years but it's still treated as an arcane unknown thing by many.

I forwarded an edited version of Steve's supposition to him - looks like I'll be meeting up with the local tech a little later this week. 

I'm actually learning more about how this works, it's interesting how they are ground shunting the unused signal in those cases.. 



 
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

Elantric

#31
Quoteit's interesting how they are ground shunting the unused signal in those cases..

Ground shunting the unused signal is an important concept that applies to most Roland /Boss VG/GR/GT/GP gear.

The benefit is no "audio signal pops" during transition

I learned about the 3-way switch the hard way back in 1998 when I rewired Aure Prochaska's Les Paul with RMC Polydrive with an incorrect ON-ON-ON switch, and the result exhibited identical problem behavior as you describe above.
Same scenario exists on Roland / RMC/ Ghost Gk 13 pin preamps  for the "Guitar / Mix" Synth " switch type requirement  = must use an  On-Off-On" DPDT switch. 

https://www.amazon.com/uxcell-125V-Position-Toggle-Switch/dp/B008ICEJM2/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1465924835&sr=8-5&keywords=On-Off-On%22+DPDT+switch
 

aliensporebomb

Strat is back and fully functional - the tech mea culpa'ed that he miswired the black conductor to the wrong part of the switch.  It's all good now.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

whippinpost91850

Glad to here you got it back quickly. Stuff happens but it always sucks when it happens to you ???

Now_And_Then

Quote from: aliensporebomb on June 27, 2016, 04:22:50 PM
Strat is back and fully functional - the tech mea culpa'ed that he miswired the black conductor to the wrong part of the switch.  It's all good now.

Considering the adventure which it became, do you consider it a good purchase?

aliensporebomb

Yes I think so.  The thing is so clean I've seen new strats in the store that aren't in this pristine condition - it's weird how some new guitars get pretty pawed over and not this one.  Also, the rosewood in the fretboard has a neat subtle diagonal grain pattern that looks really cool. 
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

carlb

Hey Aliensporebomb, you're in the TC ... If you're ever gigging, let me know so I can check it out.

I'll do the same for you, cheers. Kind of a dry spell for now, but do have something at the Como pavilion later in the summer, at the Underground Music Cafe, and the State Fair for a Saturday/Sunday ...

Note, most of what I do is emulations of jazz boats, 335s, nylon-stringers, so nothing amazingly cutting-edge. But the bands are a heckuvalotta fun, and great players (for amateurs). Boring we are not!
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker