Review: Line-6 Variax vs Roland VG99/GR55/Boss GP-10

Started by whippinpost91850, November 29, 2011, 09:23:52 AM

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aliensporebomb

Actually, since you have one of everything you might consider reviewing them all.  The problem is the VG-99 is so deep you could spend two years figuring it all out.  The other bits I'm sure will be just as time consuming.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

germanicus

#26
Yeah the best thing to do with both the VG99 and the Pod hd500 is start from completely blank patches, and add an element at a time and see how it affects things. It can be extremely valuable to reverse engineer patches you like as well, but its best to really learn each amp, cab, mic, effect in isolation to get a feel for the character it imparts.

Start with just an amp model, and try different cabinets, then also try different microphones for each of these. Theres a huge degree of variability you can accomplish messing about with just these 3 aspects.

-The HD also allows you to modify several amp parameters beyond just the standard drive, bass, mid, treble presences controls, giving you a seperate control for the power amp volume, amp sag, biax and biax x.

-In the vg99, you have a ton of different eq's throughout the signal chain you can use to tweak. A useful setting to make the amps more realistic in the 99 is to set the High Cut in the main EQ found in the Effects chain to either 4.00 or 6.00 Khz. This gets rid of some of the harshness found in many of the amp models and more closely approximates the real frequency response of a guitar cabinet. Keep this flat for acoustic guitar and synth models.
My albums done with modeling/guitar synth at http://music.steamtheory.com

JTV69/59P/Godin LGXT/Multiac ACS/Variax 700 AC
Helix/FTP/GP10/VG99/SY1000
Traynor k4

Now_And_Then

Quote from: whippinpost91850 on December 01, 2011, 09:57:44 AMThey just delivered the VG99 ;D Now I have the VG99 and the Eleven Rack and I am gonna try and pickup a HD500 as well, and compare all this weekend.

Well, it seems to me that you are going to end up comparing presents, mostly. I can't really imagine being able to master any one of those items well enough to make an informed decision, let alone three.

And even if you were to find good presets to load into all of them, they would, if you are anything like me, start to blur together after awhile. . .

whippinpost91850

Your right, But seeing as right now I'm mostly interested in real good (not neccessarily perfect) amps and effects. I should be able to get an idea over the weekend. I sure appreciate all the responses. If any one has any experience with the Eleven Rack live ,I would certainly appreciate any starting direction as well as any on the VG or Pod. Thanks again

whippinpost91850

I will definitely start with a blank slate per your recommendation. If I was going to try to decide just with the presets , I probably would have packed up the Eleven Rack last night. Presets allways seem to be just "too much" in general. Yes It will be a daunting task. You all have been great.

Elantric

#30
For me its all about the speed of accessibility to the User controls I need at the gig.

and the speed that the unit can change patches on the fly - without 200milisecond "gaps" in the sound. (which is precisely why my GR-55 stays home)

When making comparisons like that,  I might reject a "slightly better sounding" unit, if its user interface is "user hostile".

For example - In my opnion, the GR-55 user controls are "user hostile"  - I hate spinning an alpha dial, and forced to diving into menus and sub menus  simply to change Tremolo rate and depth, or delay  or reverb - all will change depending on the room and the drummers mood that day.

Yes - I'm eying a Axe FX (stop me!)
 

whippinpost91850

Elantric, this is very true. Ease of use on a live gig definitely counts for something.

whippinpost91850

Got home late from work last night, but wanted to try the VG99. I plugged in the headphones and gave it a whirl. Even with the presets I can see why alot of people are completly enamored with it. It seemed extremely versatile. Looking forward to putting it through It's paces ( starting with a blank slate) tomorrow and Sunday. Looking forward to hearing how the amp simulations feel and sound to mt ears, compared to the HD500 and the Eleven Rack. :P

paults

Quote from: whippinpost91850 on December 01, 2011, 02:21:08 PM
Elantric, this is very true. Ease of use on a live gig definitely counts for something.

Programming a Tap tempo tremolo is a wonderful thing when you want to lock in with a drummer.  Tap tempo slapback delay set to 1/16th note works well for me, too.   

cynegetic

Quote from: Bill Ruppert on November 30, 2011, 09:11:51 PM
The VG-99 can duplicate any thing the PODs can do.

The VG does a crap load of things that no other so far does.

But that whole good ol' guitar and amp thing, not so much.  :-\

fokof

Quote from: whippinpost91850 on November 30, 2011, 03:25:30 PM
  Now this confuses me a bit... It sounds like some of the long time VG/roland enthusiests only use their Roland gear in the bedroom or studio. ??? I have to admit the 13pin is a weak link but have not had any real problems on stage.And never with the old 24 pin
  I'm more concerned about bringing different tones to our live show, without having multable amps and guitars. Just to damn old for all that gear.

Same here (but with a VB99) Too old and too poor to carry all the gear and pedals.

In two years of intense "live" use , I never had any problems with the GK cable

BUT

I have to admit that I attach securely the cable at my strap each time I use it , leaving an inch or two at both ends in case of tripping over.


mbenigni

#36
Interesting discussion.  I'm surprised to find myself using the GR55 exclusively now.  I was always a bit of a Line 6 fanboy, and I still think their amp modeling is superior to COSM - or if nothing else, easier to use.  Line 6 does a better job of reeling in the parameters so that their models consistently sound like guitar amps, whereas the Roland stuff can go all over the map (for better or for worse) and you have to be really careful to dial it in musically.

As for the Variax, I don't own a Tyler, but I've owned a 500, a 300 and a 700 bass.  My assumption was the GR55 wouldn't keep up in terms of modeling guitars and instruments, but my opinion is quite the opposite - I prefer the guitar models in the GR55.  They're just a bit warmer, and sustain a bit better.  I think this comes down to the magnetic pickup vs. piezos, and the build quality of the Variaxes vs. the relatively decent tone of the RR Strat I'm now using.

As for the reliability of a GK cable, I've yet to have a problem (though you guys have me convinced I need to buy a backup.)  By contrast, I always felt like the Variaxes needed to be handled with kid gloves.  EVERY one of them had eventual problems with bad piezos or piezo wiring - a fix that is really tedious and sometimes bordering on impossible owing to the short, fine wiring involved - and managing battery life was always a hassle if you weren't using VDI and amplification that could support it.  In the end, I just never felt quite settled using the Variax product.  It seemed like the technology was too finicky and Line 6 QC wasn't up to delivering on it reliably.  I thought the Tyler might be a homerun, but availabilty was rough early on, and then QA seemed to be a mess, so I wound up here with the GR55.

Obviously the GK cable is a little oddball, but it brings synths and polytuning and alt. tunings to the table, the latter being superior to the Line 6 equivalent.  The GK3 is an ugly wart, but I've really settled in with the RR Strat.  If it had 22 frets instead of 21, I would be 100% satisfied.  As it is, it's about 99%.  :)

I agree with Elantric that the GR55 UI is "user-hostile", though.  That is consistently Roland's blind spot.  After-market UI's - gumtown's app or my TouchOSC template - are game changers here.  They've made the process of working with the GR more musical for me, and have allowed to me to work around any perceived shortcomings in tone.  

RRStrat + GR55 + iPad (direct to whatever monitors are handy) = a win for me right now.

Elantric

For me, the GR-55 can not become my "stand alone" live gig Synth/ Guitar / FX / Amp sim box for two reasons:

* The GR-55's long audio drop out mute during every patch change

* Lack of proper independent signal  / FX routing options, with major roadblocks in the signal routing topology.

 

mbenigni

I agree that the routing can be limiting, and there are a few effects that don't really pass muster. I'm just learning to live with the shortcomings there.

The delay between patches doesn't really affect me because I generally stay in one patch through an entire song. The iPad helps with this by allowing me to make a lot of on-the-fly adjustments within a patch that wouldn't otherwise be practical.

whippinpost91850

Bill, have you tried the Eleven Rack and would be interested in the HD500 send me a message. Paul

whippinpost91850

That delay is something I've been working around since Feb.

Bill Ruppert



Paul I sent you a PM.
Bill
Quote from: whippinpost91850 on December 05, 2011, 11:09:53 AM
Bill, have you tried the Eleven Rack and would be interested in the HD500 send me a message. Paul

whippinpost91850

It looks like for my purposes, I've eliminates the Hd500 ( interesting,but really can't use another floorboard), I'm still working with the VG99( but I think Gr55 may be enough for my use) :-\.
   I did get a chance to spend time with the Eleven Rack last night and found that once you get past the presets,it's a very cool sounding and feeling device 8). Any one with any experience with one I would love to here your thoughts.
I'm also beginning to like and find more uses for my Gr55  (It's only been since last Feb.) ;D

guitardude4700

Hi guys. I really like the discussion thread you guys are doing here. I have another question. Have any of you tried a JTV or a derivative there of into Guitar Rig? Thanks much

clearlight

FWIW: my two cents:

I had several Variax 300 and they all broke ( I realize they are the entry level models.).
I think some models were better than the VG stuff.

I gig in a prog rock/sometimes metal band and have never had an issue with the 13 pin cables.
I sing and play though, so my jumping around is minimal.
Also worthy of note is that for most, especially high gain sounds, I use my mag pickups and the VG99 is only used for fx and midi conversion.
I've never felt the models on the VG99 were quite "fast" enough for palm muted high gain sounds.


Don't know if these opinions will help anyone but i thought i'd chime in.
My Music
My Band Website
GUITARS: 2x RG1521, 3x RG321 w/gk, Rg721 Fretless Modified, AmStd FatStrat w/gk, various others....
XV5050,Triton etc..
KOMPLETE 7
VGUITAR Stuff: VG99, FC300, RC5-

onemoreguitar

I recently had a go on the GR-55 and can't agree more about the hideous UI.  I've run an AFX and VG-99 for quite a while now so I'm no unaccustomed to working with menu layers and such, but it's almost as if Roland don't actually want you to tweak anything.  The great thing about the VG and AFX is the quick access buttons.  Moving around is pretty simple.  The encoder with assignable parameters on the VG and the II are a real plus as well. 

As far as the drop out and slow response, I've had issues with the VG-99 as well.  I sometimes like to setup simple patches that have a number of effects in them that are turned off and then recall them and whatever effect combination I need so that I can get multiple sounds out of one patch with a single button push.  The VG isn't great at this as it requires a delay between midi commands or it simply ignore subsequent commands.  I use mine with my AFX and controlled with my Liquid-Foot Pro.  One thing I was doing was having a simple COSM guitar patch with nothing else, where one of the CC's was assigned to the alternate tuning type.  The idea was to have a preset in the LF call up the VG COSM guitar preset, the tuning, the AFX preset and any modifications to the effects all in one button push.  The AFX always worked perfectly, but the VG always needed a delay added in the command chain.

Quote from: Elantric on December 01, 2011, 02:16:52 PM

Yes - I'm eying a Axe FX (stop me!)
 

Why would anyone try to deprive you of experiencing an AFX?  It really is amazing.  It ain't just hype.  Go for the II.  With FW 6 which is do out soon, you'll get tone matching and the amp matching as well which should take care of anyone looking at a Kemper and any iZotope matching duties to boot.  It's easily the best amp modeller out there and arguably the best guitar effects processor ever made.  Put that with your VG-99 and let the fun begin....

All IMHO, IME, YMMV...

randyrocker

Ohh their is no doubt with the latest firmware for the HD500 and JTV Variax their is not comparison between the COSM modeling and the Line 6 technology
I installed my GK-3 on my Variax which is truly awesome as hell because now I can mix the variax with the GR -55 and also do side to side comparisons of tones etc..

Now don't get me wrong some of the COSM are ok espeically the acoustic tones if done properly the 6 string acoustic is probably the closest it sound alot like the old Variax 700.
so its very dated...

So I am getting some killer sounds with the combo of the JTV variax 69 and the GK-3 and GR 55 on it... so I am very happy I didn't buy the Gr-55 for the guitar modeling so Im all good :)

jerrycali

thanks for all the info posted from all of you - it is GREAT ! - it seems to all come down to personal use studio/live onstage  functionality and using your own ears for the final decision {if there is one } in using any or all of these units  - I went through 6  variaxs in the early stages  {all 300s ] but I am on the fence about buying a jtv - they sound great but not sure about the reliability  and battery life -the GR 55 seems to be working well for all my needs but I find the RP1000 is also on my stage for the quick access of gtr sounds and amp modelling in a performance - again thank you -I really enjoy Steam Theory -Elantric you have saved me so much time  with your experience and posting and Bill Ruppert you Rock ! Keep posting and thanks again Jerry Cali

Toby Krebs

Live I use a POD HD 300 and the GR55.I do everything from George Benson to Johnny Cash to Def Leppard to ...well you get the idea. For doing a huge variety of covers and also being the keyboard sounds player this combo is hard to beat. Loving the HD 300 tones. Very Good!. No patch delay at all. The GR55s patch delay is covered up by my use of the HD300. The GR55s' keyboard sounds are great but you must do some deep editing before the gig. Only had two 13 pin cable failures in 18 years. I never roll without a backup no matter what I am using. Do I record with any of these things? Heck No. Do they work and do the job live? Heck Yes! Tomorrow I am doing my first solo gig with the GR55s' usb stick backing tracks. I will do about half the gig with them. I will also have a regular acoustic set up. I used to use mini-discs and all kinds of other stuff to work alone but the GR55 has changed all that for me. Technology Rules!!!I appreciate everyone on this forum who is working with this stuff. We are a little bit different than the average guitar playing bear!

oddguitar

#49
There is no perfect answer for those deciding to go the Line6 or Roland guitar modeling route.  I've played both the JTV Variax, the G-5 VG & the GR55, and if there was a definite winner, then I would have already bought it.

The Variax has interconnectivity with the HD500, which allows for battery-less operation & patch changes that will change the model, tuning, amp model & effects.  It also offers instant alternate tunings & with Workbench complete customization.  The downsides are that the piezo bridge does not allow proper palm-muting and the models seem to be much louder than the mag sounds (at least on he ones I tried).  There were also many reliability issues initially, but most reports indicate that those issues have been eliminated in the current production run.

The Roland G-5 VG offers normal palm muting, a nylon-string option, and a very intuitive guitar-centric interface (probably due to Fender's involvement with the original VG since this has never been Roland's strong suit).  However, there is no customization of any sort, which is especially painful if one of the main reasons you are interested in modeling is for the instant alternate tunings.  You are also completely reliant on batteries.  Finally, the modeled sounds are softer in volume than the mags (at least on the ones I've tried).

The GR55 & VG99 offer an extraordinary array of options, but when considering just the guitar modeling, they are limited by the fact that they can't be controlled like a guitar. What I mean is that if I want to change a pickup selection while playing, it requires a patch change, so if I want to alternate between the 5 pickup selections of the modeled Strat, then I need to modulate between 5 different patches, and that, frankly, is just not realistic in a live playing environment.

Finally, a new option in the guitar modeling arena has presented itself with the Peavey AT-200 AutoTune guitar.  Not only does this guitar offer perfect intonation across the entire fretboard and is dirt cheap, but has the most intuitive, easy approach to alternate tunings I've seen so far. When I tried it at NAMM in January it worked flawlessly.  Obviously for $500, the quality of the guitar leaves somewhat to be desired, but that is ok. It also offers a MIDI connection to be able to connect to a breakout box & be able to be updated.  I think Roland could learn a lot from the simplicity of operation the AT-200 offers.

Opinions are, as always, welcome :)

-oddguitar