Ideal GK-3 Sensitivity in VG-99

Started by chipstar, February 01, 2008, 12:52:03 AM

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chipstar

Hey Guys,
I'm curious to get your thoughts on the best levels. Should we be trying to get 100 percent on all strings? That is to say, full bars on all strings when strumming while changing the F1 to F6 knobs as needed to achieve this. Based on what I have read thus far, I assume that you will say that it differs for each application for example Acoustic vs. Hi Gain patches. What's the skinny guys?

thanks,
Chipstar

Elantric

#1
Right out of the box, the VG-99 String Sensitivity was set to "65" - which was way too strong - made Acoustics sound all compressed, and results in poor MIDI tracking .

I now run things around "25" with my GK-2A

More details here:
======================

Setting Sensitivity
Knowledge Base ID: 104726
Product: VG-99

Setting the sensitivity for the divided pickup is crucial for optimum playing results. Use the following steps to adjust the pickup sensitivity in the VG-99:

1. Press the SYSTEM button.

2. Press the PAGE left or right buttons to select page one.

3. Press the F3 button (GK).

4. Press PAGE left or right to select page 2.

5. Press F1 repeatedly to select the type of pickup that you have - GK-3, GK-2A, PIEZO.

6. Press PAGE right twice to select page 4.

7. Play the high E string repeatedly with moderate force.

8. Turn the F1 knob while playing the string to adjust the sensitivity value so the box appears at the right side of the display.

9. Adjust the sensitivity for each of the remaining strings using the F2-F6 knobs.

Tip: For additional details about further adjustment of the GK settings, refer to pages 21and 22 in the VG-99 manual.

10. Press EXIT twice when you re finished.


* If the level meter registers in excess of the maximum level, it means
the level is set too high. Lower the sensitivity setting.
* Depending on the guitar you are using, the level meter may move to
the maximum level even when the sensitivity is set to the minimum
setting. If this occurs, adjust the clearance separating the divided
pickup and the strings so the distance is slightly greater than
specified.
11. Check the volume balance of the six strings.
Play the sixth through first strings with the normal amount of
force; if any string sounds particularly loud, lower the
sensitivity setting for that string, and keep adjusting until the
differences in the strings' volume levels are minimal.
12. Press [EXIT] several times to return to the Play
screen.
* Making these settings is necessary whenever you install the divided
pickup on a new or different guitar and when the divided pickup
height is changed. Once the settings are completed properly, they are
saved when the power is turned off. Afterwards, you need not make
the settings each time you play the instrument.
For more information on other parameters in the GK
Settings, refer to "GK SETTING" (p. 166).

chipstar

#2
Thanks Sus,
I'm all over that. Been there and done that. I'm just curious to know if I should have each string pegged on the meter on that page in the VG-99.

Dang, now I have to edit my post because you edited yours. LOL!

thanks,
Chipstar

Elantric

#3
I added more above - reread.

I tend to NOT adjust this setting to the Maximum. I leave it one short of max - with just a hint of Max indication during Pete Townsend windmill flailing strums.  as I want the Headroom for when i really play aggressively. and I always play with a stronger attack live or tracking Solos, once the adrenaline kicks in. If I set things to Max during typical hard picking - I truly "clip" this input at the gig, and it makes things sound too rubbery and compressed.

I'm recently working on using my GK-2A, but with many different stored string sensitivity settings depending on the patch - with radically different string sensitivity settings stored in the 4 new  Piezo "Slots". Nothing says you cant get creative here.   Jahloon hit upon this discovery on the other forums recently. I think this strategy opens up better MIDI tracking, and Heavy Metal Sustain, and Delicate Acoustic dynamics - just use a differerent GK setting and use the new GK Piezo EQ,and  map it to the individual Patch to taste.

chipstar

Yep, I saw that so I put the edit above. I appreciate it. You've given me valuable info. I wasn't sure what happened when the maximum value was exceeded. Now, here's a related question that deserves a little feedback. The GK-3 install paperwork states that the GK3 should be a millimeter from the strings but since the GK-3 is curved to work well with archtop guitars, I'm assuming that this must mean at the apex of the curvature. I've got adjustment screw turned so that the middle magnets are as close as possible to the G and D so that the other strings track well. It seems to work pretty well but is there another preferred method? As you can see on my signature, I've got a Strat. 

later,
Chipstar

Elantric

#5
Of course the big deal about the GK-3 is the adjustable radius PU.

You need that missing metal piece (the Adjustment template   mentioned in the GK-3 Install manual - see Page#7 & 8 ),  as its needed to properly "bend" the hex GK-3 PU to match your fretboard radius.

This adjustable radius for the hex PU is unique to the GK-3.

Try it with the GK-2A and you will break it.


You want to use the supplied distance gauge too - this is crucial to getting good tracking for MIDI too. Most who dump the GK-3 and make the move to RMCs Piezos, never took the time to really get the GK-3 Hex PU properly adjusted. For Rock and Blues, I still prefer the tone of the GK-3 over Piezos. I had a prior rant on this topic a few weeks ago.

One day I'll make a pdf doc with pics showing various GK installations on my guitars. No secret really - I just followed the Roland instructions to the letter. Roland has a brand new web site  - finally in English  that explains the proper way to install and adjust the GK-3 hex PU.
Read this thread
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=42.0
     
http://www.bosscorp.co.jp/en/GK/install/index_st.html
ftp://ftp.roland.co.uk/ProductSupport/manuals/GK-3_OM.pdf

chipstar

Well Sus...
You seem to be quite the completionist so do you have a photo of this. What does it do exactly... bend the entire pickup flat? What a pain in the ass. I can't even explain how many pairs of strings have been shot having to take off the pickguard to make some ridiculous tweak or another. I'm going to post photos by next week so you can see 'The Blackout.' That's the tentative name for the time being. I'm a big 'Damned' fan if you can't tell from the name.

Oh by the way, the Roland tech that did all of the work on my bad boy showed me a photo from Fender of a GK-3 version that was spring loaded could be raised and lowered with screws like a normal pickup but he hasn't gotten back to me on whether it's available for mass consumption. If it only comes in white... forget about it.

later,
Chipstar

RoC1909

Quote from: chipstar on February 01, 2008, 03:07:29 AM
Oh by the way, the Roland tech that did all of the work on my bad boy showed me a photo from Fender of a GK-3 version that was spring loaded could be raised and lowered with screws like a normal pickup but he hasn't gotten back to me on whether it's available for mass consumption. If it only comes in white... forget about it.

later,
Chipstar

Spring loaded? The two springs that come with the GK-3 pretty much do that. Once the "curve" is adjusted to suit my guitar, I permanently mounted my GK-3 using the spring method that is described on pages 12 of the GK-3 manual. I wanted to be able to make fine adjustments to the pickup without having to use the shims that are used for the temp method of attachment.

RoC

RushFan

"* If the level meter registers in excess of the maximum level, it means  the level is set too high. Lower the sensitivity setting."

Maybe I'm just slow on the uptake, but this still doesn't make sense to me. There is nothing past the maximum level in the meter as far as I can tell: It either shows the box or doesn't. There is no area past where the box shows up. This is not the only part of the manual that seems vague or confusing to me.

I currently have all mine set at 80, which could be too high. I have recently noticed that while playing a patch such as the ukelele or mandolin, I can hear (just barely, while wearing headphones) a sound coming from the strings that are supposed to be turned off. Is that normal or a sign that my sensitivity is too high?


Meltdown

Yes that's way too high.
Should be in the 30's
Visit my website!
http://www.tachyonmusic.com

RushFan

#10
Ok I tried them in the 30's and the only real difference I can tell from 80's is how loud you have turn up the main volume. What I appear to be hearing are sympathetic vibrations. If I have the D string turned all the way down, for example, I can still hear a D sounding somewhere on another string sometimes.
A design flaw, but not one I can really blame on Roland - it could just be something with my guitar. Anyone else notice this same thing?
It's not a huge deal in most cases - just avoid hitting those strings, but when you have the top 3 strings and bottom 3 strings with different sounds, it becomes a bit of a problem

Elantric

>If I have the D string turned all the way down, for example, I can still hear a D sounding somewhere on another string sometimes.


If you are hearing sympathetic vibrations on other strings

Questions? 

What type GK Pickup do you have?

What type Guitar do you have?

RushFan

GK-3 on a Jackson Dinky. It seems to only occur when one of the strings is turned to 0. It doesn't affect other patches adversely that I can tell. Something that bugs me about the install is they didn't tell me what to set the pickup heights to on the unit. I really don't have a tool to measure them so I left them at the defaults which mostly seems okay. I doubt that is the problem though.

Elantric

Manuals
Roland GK-3 (Mag Hex)
ftp://ftp.roland.co.uk/ProductSupport/manuals/GK-3_OM.pdf

Read page 11

"How to Use the Clearance Gauge
The divided pickup height must be adjusted so that the clearance between each string and
the divided pickup is 1.0 mm (0.04") when the highest fret is fingered.
The clearance gauge supplied with the GK-3 is 1.0 mm thick; place the gauge between the
strings and the divided pickup as shown in the figure below, then check and adjust the height."

RushFan

#14
Ah, sorry I meant to say...the distance between the pickups and the bridge's saddles, on the GK settings, tab 3. It's not apparent to me on a Floyd Rose which part of the saddle I would go by.
Actually now that I see that the VG won't let you set it below 10mm, it must be the first part of the saddle past the saddle bolt. I set them to that and it seems okay enough. But even still if I turn the volume up, with sensitivities in the 30's, I can hear faint sounds when I play the strings that are turned off on patches like Con Ukelele and Real Mandolin. Course you aren't supposed to play those strings, so it's probably not a big deal.

Elantric

#15
I use the D string (as its typically the overall midpoint of an intonated guitar bridge)  -looking down on the face of the guitar - measure from center of GK3 to where the vibrating D string contacts the floyd bridge saddle.

malhomme

I'd like to stress this:

DON'T TRUST METERING when adjusting the sensitivity of your GK;
TRUST YOUR EARS.

We are talking sound here, and tiday, from sequencer to GK setting, it is easy to make music with your eyes withiut really using your ears.

I found that a perfect setting visually made with the metering didn't sound balanced between all strings.

I set it with my ears and I get different setting that wouldn't be right metering wise, but are really balanced, string wise.

Of course, it may be different from one guitar to another and from certain brand/gauge of strings to another...

But the point is:
trust your ears instead...


fokof

Also be sure that the humbuckers are in front of the strings with the side to side adjustments.
That can have a dramatic impact on the overall tone.

Use a very tiny/small metalic object and put it on the GK3 to "see" where the pickup is and adjust accordingly.
Try on a normal pickup to be sure it is magnetic beforehand.

A2theT

Quote from: malhomme on January 31, 2009, 04:52:39 AM
I'd like to stress this:

DON'T TRUST METERING when adjusting the sensitivity of your GK;
TRUST YOUR EARS.

Of course, it may be different from one guitar to another and from certain brand/gauge of strings to another...

But the point is:
trust your ears instead...

I totally agree TRUST YOUR EARS! 
HEAVY on the METAL
Axe-Fx II, Roland VG-99 + FC-300, Roland GR-55, Digitech Jamman Stereo, Ibanez/ESP/Jackson Guitars

cynegetic

+1

For me, if I continually pluck a string while slowly adjusting, I can hear the string sound sort of decompress and open up at some point. That's where I like it. on my guitar its toward the top but not at the end like the manual suggests.

ddlooping

Quote from: cynegetic on September 04, 2010, 03:18:02 PM
+1

For me, if I continually pluck a string while slowly adjusting, I can hear the string sound sort of decompress and open up at some point. That's where I like it. on my guitar its toward the top but not at the end like the manual suggests.
Thanks for the tip, cynegetic, I'll try it out. :)
Diaz Guitars (work in progress)

cynegetic


ddlooping

Diaz Guitars (work in progress)

TroyYoung

I can't beleive that after owning a VG88 and then VG99 for all these years that I am just getting the importance of this. I found for my external GK-2A that around 30 is good and my internal GK- Strat was much lowerer, to sound good.

For me, I found to not concentrate so much on the loudness, but what does it sound like when you are palm muting. Having the sensitivity set lower makes the muting sound so much more organic. Although lowering the setting also helped in other areas as well. Less digital clipping.

THANKS, this has put a breath of fresh air into both the VGs. I found that I like some of the default patches that I never liked before.


I would challenge anyone that owns one to a least try setting the senstivity as low as possible IE 05 and then work up from there as opposed to the otherway around.
Troy Young

mooncaine

Good thread. I have gradually adjusted these settings downward since this topic came up. When I started using VGs, I had them turned way up. It's sounding better now, but the reason I had them turned up was to get more sustain on the high E string.

I have a bunch of settings saved, and switch between them, to compare and (possibly) decide which is best. Settings that sound good for guitar models don't give me much sustain on the synth-ish models, so I've got one set with SYNTH in its name, ready to use for the non-guitar sounds that seem to need it.

I don't know that I've ever found the best settings to use, yet, but I feel this thread has helped me get better sounds than before. Thanks!