FC300 - Gumtown: Ever considered making an FC-300 editor?

Started by musicman65, July 12, 2012, 01:20:18 PM

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musicman65

Been doing some research and NOBODY has a viable FC300 editor. I'd give $30 to $40 for one immediately if it existed. Some guys have used a MIDI tool to send Sysex to one to rename patches that appear on the display. I believe it can also do a Sysex dump via remote command so its all there for the right guy to exploit.

The FC300 is unique as one of the few dual exp pedal boards with a real display. It is widely used outside of the vg world and would be more popular with a companion software editor.

Anyways, food for thought.

bd

gumtown

If I had one, I may concider it, and it is not worth the cost (to me) to go buy one just to make an editor.
Here a new FC-300 is the same price as a GT-100 (NZD $899.00), yet I could go buy a Behringer FCB1010 equivalent for a little more than 1/4 of the Roland price.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Elantric

I do think that provided Gumtown's track record for creating Editors - perhaps he could hit up a few Kemper Profile Amp owners who would pool their funds to contribute a free KPA and mail it to Gumtown, with the goal he could creating a cross platform "KPA" Editor - There is much business, need and desire for this.

http://kemper-amps.com/forum/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=5502&pageNo=2

whippinpost91850

I'm sure there is a lot of us that would be quite happy to through some $$$ to Gumtown for such a device. As his GR55 floorboard is a god send ;D

musicman65

+1 on the KPA editor. Those guys on the Kemper Forum are suffering! Someone needs to save them.

-1 on the FCB1010 for live guitar work...I own 3 of them and they lack a display and tight integration to my beloved VG-99. They are also really cheap feeling under foot. I like them and use them to control lights and effects live....but once you use an FC-300, you can't go back....lol. The editor for the FCB (and custom roms, if needed) is its saving grace...the manual programming method is a nightmare!

You would be shocked to see what guys are spending on midi foot controllers that are way less versatile than the FC300....but have software to configure them.

Gumtown...if I find a cheap used FC-300 to send you, would you reconsider? Not sure where this would be found but I'll start looking if you are game. (carrot tied to stick, presented graciously :)  )

bd


gumtown

#5
Quote from: musicman65 on July 13, 2012, 09:06:02 PM
+1 on the KPA editor. Those guys on the Kemper Forum are suffering! Someone needs to save them.
I have seen a bit on various forums about the Kemper, but until just now, never even seen a picture of one.
Not sure yet if it is something I would acutally use, i'm not sure anyone would concider an editor until the firmware is more solid and sorted.
I am always open to offers and deals ( i think that includes bribery too ;-) ).
Seems a bit difficult to find a on one of these price too, there is no dealer/distributer in my country for these.
BTW: The Kemper logo reminds me of this

Quote from: musicman65 on July 13, 2012, 09:06:02 PM
Gumtown...if I find a cheap used FC-300 to send you, would you reconsider? Not sure where this would be found but I'll start looking if you are game. (carrot tied to stick, presented graciously :)  )
An FC-300 is something I would actually use, so if one were to come my way, then yes.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

musicman65

Thanks Gumtown. I will setup a saved search on eBay and monitor for a cheap FC300. Might be a while. We'll see what happens! Like I said, there are many asking for an editor.

bd

Bill Ruppert

HA
I thought the same thing about the ARRL logo.
I used to belong.
My ham call is W9WCR



Quote from: gumtown on July 15, 2012, 03:48:01 PM
I have seen a bit on various forums about the Kemper, but until just now, never even seen a picture of one.
Not sure yet if it is something I would acutally use, i'm not sure anyone would concider an editor until the firmware is more solid and sorted.
I am always open to offers and deals ( i think that includes bribery too ;-) ).
Seems a bit difficult to find a on one of these price too, there is no dealer/distributer in my country for these.
BTW: The Kemper logo reminds me of this
An FC-300 is something I would actually use, so if one were to come my way, then yes.

datsunrobbie

Quote from: musicman65 on July 15, 2012, 05:09:43 PM
Thanks Gumtown. I will setup a saved search on eBay and monitor for a cheap FC300. Might be a while. We'll see what happens! Like I said, there are many asking for an editor.

bd

http://used.guitarcenter.com/usedgear/index.cfm

used FC300 for $279.99

gumtown

I do know someone who is currently making an FC-300 editor.

http://www.bossgtcentral.com/showthread.php?28589-Any-chance-for-a-FC-300-Fx-FloorBoard&p=243010#post243010

Does anyone have or know of the full FC-300 midi implementation?
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Elantric

#10
The last half of this doc is rather detailed on the FC-300 MIDI Spec

Use Google Translate from Japanese
(FC-300 J2 Japanese Manual)
http://lib.roland.co.jp/support/jp/manuals/res/1809807/FC-300_j2.pdf

or start at page 59 here (FC-300 E2 English Manual)
http://lib.roland.co.jp/support/en/manuals/res/1810998/FC-300_e2.pdf

Macciza

Hi Should not be too difficult to put something together in Lemur .  .
What do need it to do? And what would you want it do ?

Cheers
MM
'70s Strat, Brian Moore iM, VG-8, VG-99, FC-300, VL-70m, StringPort, SoftStep, Sentient6, iMac QC i7 27".

gumtown

Quote from: Macciza on February 07, 2013, 07:11:20 PM
Hi Should not be too difficult to put something together in Lemur .  .
What do need it to do? And what would you want it do ?

Cheers
MM
If you follow the link posted in my previous post, you will see someone is already making one

Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

musicman65

This is excellent news! I think the FC300 surpasses most controllers I've seen but it is a royal pain to configure. The only downside is the highest CC being limited to 95....??? Why Roland, why?

bd

gumtown

Quote from: musicman65 on February 07, 2013, 08:19:59 PM
The only downside is the highest CC being limited to 95....??? Why Roland, why?

There is a good reason for that as listed below (copied and pasted from elsewhere)......

It's probably best not to use the group below for assigning controllers.?
96 Data Button increment
97 Data Button decrement
98 Non-registered Parameter (LSB)
99 Non-registered Parameter (MSB)
100 Registered Parameter (LSB)
101 Registered Parameter (MSB)

It's very important that you do not use these no matter what unless you want to invoke these functions
120 All Sound Off
121 All Controllers Off
122 Local Keyboard (on/off)
You might actually crash your keyboard if you use this one.
123 All Notes Off

You typically don't want your synths to change modes on you in the middle of making a song, so don't use these.
124 Omni Mode Off
125 Omni Mode On
126 Mono Operation
127 Poly Operation
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

musicman65

Gumtown, thanks for the explanation. Makes sense.

Kemper's NRPN implementation uses CC > 95 unfortunately. Unless there is another way to send high CC #'s, the FC300 can't access the KPA's extended features that aren't mapped to standard CC's already. Mapping lower unused CC's to higher CC's using the Midi Solutions Event Processor may be the only way.

I'm pretty pumped about 4x4UK's editor. Thanks for the heads up.

bd

Macciza

Hi
QuoteIf you follow the link posted in my previous post, you will see someone is already making one
Sorry, Did not notice the multiple pages - and also no links to project - closed source??

Maybe I should have been more explicit regarding the 'Lemur' part . . .
I was talking about doing something that would run on an iPad not a PC . . .
'70s Strat, Brian Moore iM, VG-8, VG-99, FC-300, VL-70m, StringPort, SoftStep, Sentient6, iMac QC i7 27".

musicman65

An iPad interface won't help me but others may benefit . I'm not an Apple user.

obiwanjacobi

#18
Quote from: Elantric on February 07, 2013, 05:35:25 PM
The last half of this doc is rather detailed on the FC-300 MIDI Spec

or start at page 59 here (FC-300 E2 English Manual)
http://lib.roland.co.jp/support/en/manuals/res/1810998/FC-300_e2.pdf

The documentation only talks about the immediate data address tables (model id = 00H 00H 20H).
I am looking for more info on the bulk data mode (model id =  00H 00H 1EH), it's structure and meaning. I want to program the content of the on-board menu settings - specifically for CC and Patch mode but if possible also the global IO settings...

Any resources available on that?

Thanx,
Marc

Grtx, Marc

Elantric

#19
Suggest you look  / inspect the VG-99 Complete MIDi Implementation doc - as this contains some info on VG-99 with FC-300 that may be relevant.
https://media.americanmusical.com/ItemFiles/Manual/roland/fc300.pdf

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2968.0

Download this and search on "FC-300"
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2968.0;attach=7976

obiwanjacobi

Thanx. With a quick scan I could find a reference to the FC-300 SysEx but that's the same as in the FC-300 manual...

This will need more study...
Grtx, Marc

Elantric

#21
QuoteThanx. With a quick scan I could find a reference to the FC-300 SysEx but that's the same as in the FC-300 manual...

This will need more study...

Somewhere  at Roland Corp,   Hosoe-cho, Hamamatsu,  Japan - there exists the official Roland FC-300 Complete MIDI Specification document.

These Complete MIDI Specification Docs for Roland Products used to be available to Roland Customers upon request.

But since 2007, the policy changed - current middle management lumps "Complete MIDI Specification docs " with C++ Source Code and protected intellectual property of Roland Corp - which makes Complete MIDI Specifications very tough to obtain by non Roland employees.

musicman65

Quote from: Elantric on May 15, 2014, 01:30:07 PMBut since 2007, the policy changed - current middle management lumps "Complete MIDI Specification docs " with C++ Source Code and protected intellectual property of Roland Corp - which makes Complete MIDI Specifications very tough to obtain by non Roland employees.
How STUPID is that?

Derek Cook

Hi,

I hope it is OK to resurrect an old post like this, and if it is OK to post about some development work for what will be a modest priced app when i have finished it. If not acceptable, my apologies and MODs please delete.

I've had an FC300 for ten years and it's an amazing device for controlling my Keyboard rig (My Guitar rig is Variax/HELIX and GR55/Strat with GK3). I have had the FC300 in a mainly static config for all that time, but now I need to be able to program it more dynamically, and we all know what a PIA it is to program.

I code and sell Java librarians for my synths, so I have been experimenting doing the same in Java for the FC300 (so editor will run on PC, OS X, Linux), as a little summer job where I can sit outside (in this lovely UK summer) with a laptop, a hex editor and my Java development suite.

I've made good headway and, as of tonight (hence the shout out!) I can completely decode my FC300 SYSEX dumps into the individual messages and display them in a tree type view (like Windows Explorer file tree). And I can write the file back out then as a 100% clone, including regenerating all the messages and checksums. This works for the three SYSEX dumps I have taken over the years as backups whenever I have made big changes to the FC300 patches. In slow time (amongst everything else I am doing!) I will keep working on this. Some more work is needed to decode specific messages to show what they are, but I already have a few done. I can post some screenshots if people are interested. Once all decoding, reading and writing is complete, then I can think about editing features.

However I seem to have hit an issue. The MIDI implementation is also a real PIA (just like programming the FC300!). Lots of small messages. I have a test patch that goes to town in terms of populating all features you have in the FC300 with data, but it appears that not everything you program in the FC300 appears in the MIDI Dump in Patch Mode (the mode I use and so the mode I am working on).

E.g. You can program up to six CCs for the Expression Pedal, but you only seem to get the first one in the MIDI Dump. You seem to be able to program SYSEX strings for Patch ON/Patch Off of any length, but they are truncated in the dump to fit within a specific message size. So these might be bugs that need to be reported to Roland. Not sure if they would fix bugs in device this old, but they still seem to be on the market.

The expression pedal issue is a huge pain, as I have several patches where I do have multiple CCs on the pedal for different synths (and different EXP ranges). If this is a bug, I can probably change my work flow as I use Top Ten Software Cantabile as a MIDI hub/processor now, so I could drop to one FC300 EXP Pedal CC and get Cantabile to generate the additional CCs.

The main reason why I am posting is to gauge interest for an editor and if it is still there (may help me prioritise it up a little in terms of other things I am doing). It would also be useful to test what I have done so far against more SYSEX dumps if any FC300 owners out there would be kind enough to provide them. I am also thinking that if I do come up with a bug list, then there may be more clout with Roland if multiple interested people are on at them to fix?

Comments welcome.


admin

A true Roland FC-300 Editor would be a god send to many folks here

https://media.americanmusical.com/ItemFiles/Manual/roland/fc300.pdf