GR-55- How do you connect your gr55 to an amp ?

Started by Jedibasswatson, August 14, 2013, 01:56:41 PM

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Jedibasswatson

Hi guys just wondering how you all connect your gr 55 to your amp?

Do you just use 1 mono  jack ?
Or use the stereo outputs to a dual input amp
Or plug into a mixer using all 3 outputs ? Adding the normal guitar output
Or are you using additional effects as well ?
Or route it through your guitar amp effects send return ?

The main reason is I'm having nightmares trying to use some old stomp effects as well as my gr55
And having a effects loop that runs in parallel

So I'm interested to find out what you guys do ?

At the mo I use guitar out  gr55 into stomp (tube compressore)
then into front of amp
and the effects out (mono) gr55
Into effects return back of amp
Only prob with this is the amp runs in parallel so the returned effects are heavily diluted with pure signal !!!

Fender jazz USA deluxe 4
Music man sterling 5hh gk3b
Warwick thumb 6 thru gk3b
Markbass MoMark 800
Markbass hf800
Markbass compressore
Gr55 gk3b
Fc300

musicman65

I discovered a long time ago that amp modelers replace amps and connecting them to a guitar amp defeats the purpose (for me).

FRFR is the intended method to amplify a modeler and synth. Roland attempted to make provisions for connecting to an amp by pre-EQing the signal but its a compromise at best.

There are many in here that have found ways to keep their beloved amp and I am sure they can offer you a way. FRFR, by design, is optimal though.

FRFR is "Full Range, Flat Response"....PA speakers, Headphones, Studio Monitors, Wedge Monitors and Keyboard Amps specifically....not guitar amps. Would you play an MP3 or CD through a guitar amp?

bd

Elantric

Read reviews of what VG-99 / GR-55 amplification systems work and which ones don't here:

Amplification Systems
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=37.0

Jedibasswatson

For me I never use the modelled tones or amps on the gr 55
Never as good as the real thing IMO , not even close to the pod hd
Just use it for the synths and hopefully one day get the effects working thru normal pickup
Fender jazz USA deluxe 4
Music man sterling 5hh gk3b
Warwick thumb 6 thru gk3b
Markbass MoMark 800
Markbass hf800
Markbass compressore
Gr55 gk3b
Fc300

Toby Krebs

Don't use the guitar out jack to your compressor. That will only give you poor sound quality and frustration. Do the Pin7 guitar out mod described in the "noisy guitar out " thread on this forum. Very easy to do and the results are good. Much better than the guitar out jack that comes with the GR55. Although I use the modelled amps and guitars in the GR55 I like to use another small processor for my mag pickups and blend it with the GR55s' tones. When I want to use an amp I send the GR55s' tones to a FRFR cabinet or cabinets via the left/mono output jack and send my mag pickup sound out of the modded Pin7 jack to my effects and then my amp. Most of the time though I just use FRFR powered PA cabs because I like the modelled amps in the GR55. Took a while to learn how to use them. Bass is a different animal and requires more consistency in tones during live performance IMHO so you have your work cut out for you with that. Good Luck!

musicman65

How do you know if the Roland modeling sucks if you run it through a guitar amp? To me, it would be like saying my favor band sucks when I play their latest CD through the lead channel on my Marshall.

I was a Line6 man for years until I got my VG99. COSM amp modeling is actually very authentic and pleasing to my ears once I learned to use the tools provided to dial in my sound and  gave up trying to make my Fender sound like a Marshall by running a model of a Marshall into it.

I suspect you view modelers more as an integrated all-in-one stompbox....as do many others. The GR55 sends out a line level PA ready signal. That's its purpose in life. It can be made to function as a stompbox with a lot of convoluted setup and crazy hookup schemes. This board is full of guys trying. Many have settled with a method and I'm sure they will share it.

bd

Jedibasswatson

I only know it sucks cos I have tried it through out direct to my studio monitors and also tried it through my pa monitors ( I have a studio and a live 10 k rig ) the amp and guitar modelling is that is an emulation not even close to the real thing , my thought is ,it's like playing a recording of something throug a home cinema system like a car or some one singing but it does not sound like the real thing if you where standing right next to a car or someone singing ,
Also why would you want to buy a guitar for like £3000 and put a £120 pick up in it run it throug a £500 emulation device to sound like the guitar you have then through two fr fr 15 Inch monitor s that cost £600 each , that's more baffling to me but each to there own ?
I think it's a good device for synths but that's it !
I'm also a bassist that's why I use a tube compressor out of the dry feed jack to level out my tone
That is not altered by any other effects
Fender jazz USA deluxe 4
Music man sterling 5hh gk3b
Warwick thumb 6 thru gk3b
Markbass MoMark 800
Markbass hf800
Markbass compressore
Gr55 gk3b
Fc300

musicman65

Thanks for your reply. I understand. All modelers sound like the recorded amp including the mic, not an amp in the room next to you. The mic'd sound is what the audience hears and that's what a recording captures.

You are among the many that can't get past losing the "amp in a room" vibe. The Kemper Profiling Amp is the premier modeler nowadays and over on their forum there are guys making exactly the same observations as you. The AxeFX guys echo this as well.

As a bass player, I suspect having the reflex of a cab moving lots of air is really important and if that's what you need, then you are definitely gonna be happier with an amp.

The reason we do all the things that baffle you is for versatility with a single instrument. I use the more powerful VG99. The GR55 has some serious limitations for me. I can alternate tune, play a mandolin part, a synth part, two different guitar and amp sounds plus my mag pups...the list goes on and on. Its not for everyone but that's why there are so many choices for gear! I mostly play live and only get complements on my guitar (and synth) tones.

Ok, back to helping you get your gear working the way you want. I'm sure some "amp in the room" guys will chime in with great suggestions.

bd

A914Man

I use one side of an older Yamaha EMX PA head run to a Peavey SP2M (15") monitor cabinet.  I use one channel for the GR55 and one for a Digitech RP1000.  I come out of the GR55 and go to a direct box and right to the mixer, the direct box also serves as a splitter to the Yamaha.  The RP has stereo balanced outputs, so I use one output to go to the mixer and the other to my rig.

This is my fourth different set up, and it's only used in a praise/worship setting.  The next best set up for me is a 65 watt single 12" combo for the RP and a 80 watt single 15" combo bass amp for the GR.  Since all my guitar tone comes from the RP I set the amp pretty flat with minimal adjustment, and for the GR I tweek the EQ a bit more to bring out the highs, since it's coming through a bass amp.

When I was gigging, I pulled the amp out of the bass combo and made a custom cabinet for it, and for a while I used it with a Peavey1245 monitor for the GR.  This made for a good compact set up in a club band, but the 12" didn't like the deep lows of the GR when pushed.

I'll have to scrounge through my pics, I think I've got a shot of that rig.
After only 37 years, I'm almost as good as I thought I was when I was 21

Jim Wintringham

I'm using the mono out, and the guitar out...as separate signals into a Roland kc-300 keyboard amp. I use the Bypass setting on the normal guitar pickups (found in the effects section)...and run that signal thurough a Zoom G2 effects (using a clean effect with some re-verb). I have the modeled guitar volume set to the GR-55 pedal, and the synth signal volume  controlled with my gk volume (on the guitar). I have the KC-300 line out plugged into the house PA (church). My experience is a fairly quiet signal over all (not using much distortion effects)
Roland GR-55
Wechter Pathmaker PM 7354
Brian Moore i91.13 (China)
Zoom G2
Ventris Dual Reverb
Roland kc-300

realmrocks

Quote...PA speakers, Headphones, Studio Monitors, Wedge Monitors and Keyboard Amps specifically....not guitar amps

I have only had unit for a month but use Roland Keyboard amp (mono), and am happy with results.  I appreciate the fact you can get so many sounds in a small unit, it's really incredible (ADD heaven). With countless options comes trade-offs. I accept them in order to bath in different colors.

With that acceptance I am moving towards the Motion Sound KP-500SN.

Also, my comparison to what a guitar sound (crunch) should be is my ENGL Sovereign 2x12 combo. For Gr-55 I like the "Mahogany" and "LP / Stack" presets but still tweaking own.

Peace brothers in colors.


Toby Krebs

I played a gig last week using my 1982 JCM800/Line 6 M13/Talk Box and a 1x12 ext. cab. Sounded and felt great and I enjoyed going old school for one evening.The bass player on the gig used a beautiful Mesa Boogie rack setup and cab and a USA Music Man bass. Amazing tone had he! This week I am back to my GR55/Boss ME-25 all modelling setup with FRFR speakers.I have a close friend who plays his GR55 through his Mesa Boogie guitar amp and a Raven solid state guitar amp and his tone kills. I still play bass gigs when asked and I use a Fender 5 jazz with active pickups and 2 GK 15 in. combos. I use a small pedalboard with tuner/compressor and chorus(to split the amps) and it moves air and works good. I think maybe a Boss GT-10B might be what you are needing to try along with the synth bass tones of the GR55. These two units together cover everything.

whippinpost91850

After much (agonizing) searching and testing. I finally ended up keeping and using the Atomic CLR. I mix my GR55(mono out)  and my Kemper directly into it and then run an XLR cable to the PA. My first gig with this setup was last Saturday night and for me it was the most consistently great sound I believe I've ever had. And judging by the compliments from the crowd they must have agreed. It's elimianted about 5 other pieces of equipment and at least a 100lbs to tote around

Baday12345

my setup:

guitar gk out------gr55---- acoustic amp(frfr)------PA
guitar out------gt100---fender amp------mic------PA

2 cords out of my guitar but independent control of each unit.
i use the gt100 about 85% and blend in  the gr55 about %30 with my band.

i keep the guitar tones almost exclusively to the GT, the GR is for support or fills, and the occasional odd solo.

musicman65

Quote from: realmrocks on August 15, 2013, 07:55:02 AMWith that acceptance I am moving towards the Motion Sound KP-500SN.

I use a KP500sn...for a stereo combo amp, its probably best in class. I will say it still has more of a "voicing" then a good FRFR PA speaker like the Yamaha DXF's. If I started over today, I'd probably try two of those.

bd

grandinq

I use a rather involved setup, as I love my POD/DT25 for guitar sounds, and I like the GR-55 for synth sounds but I don't want those coming through the DT25.  I want to be able to switch from one signal to another in the same song.  I've attached a picture.  It goes like this:

signal 1: Guitar (Godin Freeway SA) 1/4" out to Digitech Vocalist --> A/B Box --> POD guitar in (I don't need an out from the POD because the L6 link connects the POD to the DT25)

signal 2: GK cable --> GR55 --> second A/B box --> PA

Basically I use the A/B boxes as mute pedals.  If I just want guitar, I activate the first A/B box and then keep the second one on the path not used.  If I want to switch, I need to tap both pedals (which is why they are so close to each other).  I can also turn both signals on, which can be quite interesting.


realmrocks

QuoteI will say it still has more of a "voicing" then a good FRFR PA speaker

Musicman - Can you provide more details on "voicing"? Is that when you enable the 3D effect or stand alone. I am going to use a guitar amp along with Motion Sound so not all is feeding through MS amp. Thanks

Baday12345

Quote from: grandinq on August 15, 2013, 07:13:44 PM
I use a rather involved setup, as I love my POD/DT25 for guitar sounds, and I like the GR-55 for synth sounds but I don't want those coming through the DT25.  I want to be able to switch from one signal to another in the same song.  I've attached a picture.  It goes like this:

signal 1: Guitar (Godin Freeway SA) 1/4" out to Digitech Vocalist --> A/B Box --> POD guitar in (I don't need an out from the POD because the L6 link connects the POD to the DT25)

signal 2: GK cable --> GR55 --> second A/B box --> PA

Basically I use the A/B boxes as mute pedals.  If I just want guitar, I activate the first A/B box and then keep the second one on the path not used.  If I want to switch, I need to tap both pedals (which is why they are so close to each other).  I can also turn both signals on, which can be quite interesting.

i like the mute pedals a/b box configuration.  i may try that,  i use the gk volume knob to on off the gr55 tones.
(right hand pinky)

CodeSmart

At rehearsal and gigs I put the GR-55 stereo out to the PA and the guitar signal to the guitar amp. At home I have small one-piece stereo for the synth I place on top of my a small guitar amp. I see the guys (the keyboard player and the super guitar hero) as two different individuals requiring different sound systems to get along well.
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

musicman65

Quote from: realmrocks on August 16, 2013, 07:08:37 AM
Musicman - Can you provide more details on "voicing"? Is that when you enable the 3D effect or stand alone. I am going to use a guitar amp along with Motion Sound so not all is feeding through MS amp. Thanks

ALL speakers have a "voice"...characteristics that make them sound different than the original source sound. The less voice, the more transparent and identical the sound. It is impossible to build a speaker that can reproduce all frequencies perfectly...some are very close (studio monitors) and some alter the sound drastically (guitar amps). That's what makes a Marshall or Fender unique. This is undesirable in an FRFR amp (which a keyboard amp is). The KP500sn is a best in class keyboard amp. You can play a CD through it and it sounds like the recording....but it does have a minimal voicing. Its slightly thick in the 300hz-1.5khz range making it sound warm and full....but the other combos are way worse. The newest powered PA speakers with onboard DSP processing are better.

bd

musicman65

Quote from: realmrocks on August 16, 2013, 07:08:37 AM
Musicman - Can you provide more details on "voicing"? Is that when you enable the 3D effect or stand alone. I am going to use a guitar amp along with Motion Sound so not all is feeding through MS amp. Thanks

ALL speakers have a "voice"...characteristics that make them sound different than the original source sound. The less voice, the more transparent and identical the sound. It is impossible to build a speaker that can reproduce all frequencies perfectly...some are very close (studio monitors) and some alter the sound drastically (guitar amps). That's what makes a Marshall or Fender unique. This is undesirable in an FRFR amp (which a keyboard amp is). The KP500sn is a best in class keyboard amp. You can play a CD through it and it sounds like the recording....but it does have a minimal voicing. Its slightly thick in the 300hz-1.5khz range making it sound warm and full....but the other combos are way worse. The newest powered PA speakers with onboard DSP processing are better.

bd