Ended: Can you help me create an instrument sound?

Started by neshel, June 30, 2015, 07:54:50 PM

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neshel

Tried this at KVR. Some interest, some efforts, but no success. Since I'm using guitar as interface, perhaps here will turn out better. I'm willing to donate or even pay for your time.

I started in metal, rhythm playing. Then I studied music, my ear changed a lot, and I started imagining sounds that 'pushed' like a high gain tone, but that had no hair. More like a French or English horn - with a soft bell in the attack.

Here is an example of a real english or French horn sound that I look to:

https://soundcloud.com/neshel/horn-flash-gordon


I'm using a Triple Play. VST-wise, I default to Piano One. This is how I play using that:

https://soundcloud.com/neshel/150212-5-tp-piano-one-1-aiso-96


I would like less bell clank, and no hammer sound; more push; and I want string-bend vibrato and smooth glissando, more like when I play a gain tone:

https://soundcloud.com/neshel/150115-4-dc-in-2


Anyone game?

DreamTheory

You need a GR-55, brother! That sort of thing is exactly what it is made for.

GR-55 is often described as jack of all trades and master of none, which is true with respect to individual functions like looper or in/out connections. However, when comes to making piano-French horn-guitar patches, guitrumpets, shakuhachi-banjos with ring modulators, dog-bark-ocarina-Strato-sitars, and so on, GR-55 is the uncontested master.

Your desired French Horn sounds a bit lo-fi. No prob, doctor it up (or down) with the FX banks, maybe even run it through an amp to make it sound like that crunchy 1940's recording. You want piano without the hammer sound? Easy peasy, just increase the attack time in the TVA a bit.

You should never have to pay for a patch with all of the sub-geniuses on this forum with penchants for weirdness, and sympathy for fellow mad scientists having technical problems with high octave tubaccordian or whatever. Just get a GR-55 and we gotcher back.
electric: Epiphone Dot semihollow body, acoustic: mahogany jumbo, recording: Cubase Artist 11 or Tascam DP008

neshel

#2
I appreciate the response. For now, I'm sticking with the Triple Play/PC setup.

That recording was a mono source (Flash Gordon cartoon '79) from Youtube, and only a reference as far as timbre, not fidelity.

A good piano sound is rare, especially across octaves. Piano One is one of the best I've heard (even compared to this high-end, several gig sample set I recently heard by a local guy). It sounds/sustains very much like a piano. The tones mingle and all like they should; I was using no reverb. And it responds a bit like a piano, especially given I'm triggering it with a device that has no aftertouch, etc. I wasn't hearing remotely that quality of sound on the GR-55 vid I saw.

Further, I don't want a mix of sounds. I tried that with the GR-1 way back. It sounded like those two sounds. I want it to have characteristics of them, but not sound like any of them. I'm talking about a new sound I ain't heard nowhere.

DreamTheory

Sounds like you know exactly what you want.

Sometimes I feel that way too, and sometimes I just try things and see how it comes out, and then that "random" result can actually become my next sound craze. There is a feedback loop between having a concept and seeing what I can really do with what I have. Sometimes "my tone" is really whatever comes out of the mix of my gear, the settings I dial up that session, and the playing technique I use. I even think that despite all the crazy concoctions, I sound like a "Roland User" and no matter what we do, in future years we will say, perhaps with a wince or perhaps with a nostalgic sigh, "that sounds so DAW!" or "my how post millenial" or "to think we played music without mind-melding beams!"
electric: Epiphone Dot semihollow body, acoustic: mahogany jumbo, recording: Cubase Artist 11 or Tascam DP008

neshel

#4
I've known what I wanted in fairly specific terms for almost twenty years. Far as I've seen, nobody's doin it cos:

- they're in Art Music, and all the great timbres are already there, and they for some reason aren't thinking of creating similar-quality virtual timbres (except insofar as making virtual copies of existing real ones).......

- they're in pop music, and all the 'great' tones are there, and they ain't thinkin in terms of quality when it comes to virtual....partly because pop music is non-volume-dynamic


I wouldn't even be askin if I had the capacity to make what I want. I'd just make it and then come out an say, 'hey, check this out'.

neshel

I'm giving up on this. Feel free to remove my account.  Aeee-di-oos

admin

#6
Quote from: neshel on June 30, 2015, 07:54:50 PM
Tried this at KVR. Some interest, some efforts, but no success. Since I'm using guitar as interface, perhaps here will turn out better. I'm willing to donate or even pay for your time.

I started in metal, rhythm playing. Then I studied music, my ear changed a lot, and I started imagining sounds that 'pushed' like a high gain tone, but that had no hair. More like a French or English horn - with a soft bell in the attack.

Here is an example of a real english or French horn sound that I look to:

https://soundcloud.com/neshel/horn-flash-gordon


I'm using a Triple Play. VST-wise, I default to Piano One. This is how I play using that:

https://soundcloud.com/neshel/150212-5-tp-piano-one-1-aiso-96


I would like less bell clank, and no hammer sound; more push; and I want string-bend vibrato and smooth glissando, more like when I play a gain tone:

https://soundcloud.com/neshel/150115-4-dc-in-2


Anyone game?

Perhaps the new EastWest MIDI Guitar Instruments releases suit your needs.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=19750.msg148654#msg148654

http://www.soundsonline.com/midi-guitar-series


These new EastWest MIDI Guitar Instruments, from producers Doug Rogers and Nick Phoenix, differ from the current EastWest virtual instruments, which are optimized for keyboards, in that they have been selected and designed to take advantage of the complex and unique waveforms produced by a guitar's vibrating strings. These five titles cover a wide range of musical styles and instrument families.

"We have been testing MIDI guitar systems for years, and the Fishman TriplePlay Wireless MIDI Guitar Controller is the best in class," says EastWest producer Doug Rogers. "So EastWest and Fishman worked closely together, re-programming the instruments and making adjustments to the software specifically for the Fishman MIDI Guitar Controller. It all works incredibly well as you can hear in the video we produced. In fact, it opens up a whole new world for guitar players who have been grappling with decades-old technology. I know many of our users consider themselves to be guitar players first, so they will now be able to compose 'anything' using their preferred instrument, instead of a keyboard."

Fishman founder and president, Larry Fishman states, "The opportunity of collaborating with EastWest is very exciting for not only our two companies, but also for guitarists who are looking to explore new avenues of creativity and sound. EastWest virtual instruments are the choice of top music, film, TV, and gaming performers and composers. We worked with the EastWest team to expand the TriplePlay orbit of guitar-optimized, easily accessed and compatible virtual instruments that will build on the already formidable list of TriplePlay features and benefits."