VG8 Rackmount

Started by thebrushwithin, February 11, 2013, 10:41:32 AM

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thebrushwithin

Does anyone here know someone, in the US that would rackmount a VG8? I had Keith McMillen rack my 88, and it is so much nicer, as he even added a GK-Y out, in a very lightweight single unit aluminum housing. I am really hoping someone in this forum could do it - you folks are awesome!
Thanks - Mark

Elantric

#1
Proix / TSC in Japan used to perform VG-8 / VG-88 Rack Conversion
http://www.proix.com/product/sys_gr_vg/index.html


Last I heard it was running $800 to $1200 for Rack Conversion.  But effective 2006, The Japanese Equivalent to CE/ UL passed a countrywide safety law that makes it now illegal to perform such electrical mods in Japan. I do not know anyone in the USA doing these mods today - its typically cost prohibitive.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:WWku9tPMErsJ:wiki.muffwiggler.com/wiki/Regulatory_issues+&cd=13&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

thebrushwithin

#2
Thanks for the quick reply! I just emailed Keith, although he may be way too busy these days. His price for the 88 was really cost effective, and I pray he or his staff are willing. I still love the VG8, but hate the floor design. I saw a guy doing a demo with a racked 8, on YouTube, that was not done by Proix, but have not been able to reach him. If Keith or someone else will do it, I will let everyone know.
Thanks again!
Update: I found this reply on his YouTube demo page:

Linz HendersonDec 12, 2012
Hi there, thanks :-) I did the rackmount conversion myself. It wasn't particularly easy but was definitely worth it. I actually made this demo for selling the unit on eBay. I kind of miss it as I went onto the VG-99 and found its format far less useful than the rackmounted VG-8. It took me about 8 days to complete but only cost? around £40 so it was worth the effort.

Since he is overseas, the cost could go through the roof, but I will ask him if he is interested.
Here is his unit...
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sHLCJuX_Nao&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DsHLCJuX_Nao

Francis 7

Any word on this? I've been dying to do this to my 8 and 88 for years now. I didn't have the money to do Keith's rackmount at the time, but now I would totally do it. It's getting to the point where I may not use my VG stuff anymore live as it's such a pain, especially with both of them. Lucky for me, I had a 99 for awhile but I didn't much like it... if not I'd be in bigger trouble...!

thebrushwithin

I emailed Keith, thanked him again, and asked if he had time to rack up a VG8.
He is way too busy for such a project. You should email him and ask if he still
has any of the VG88 rack kits available. I have looked inside the VG8, and saw how
it could be done, maybe in a one space rack, like the VG88, but you would need to
reposition one of the boards, and resolder longer leads to the display, and the buttons.
Also, someone would have to punch the openings in the front and rear panels.
I believe someone could make some money doing this. If it were reasonably priced,
I would pay for two VG8s to be racked.

Elantric

#5
QuoteI believe someone could make some money doing this. If it were reasonably priced,

Back in 1999, I recall several folks with VG-8's were sending their VG-8's to TSC Proix in Japan but the price was about $1200 for the Rack conversion.
http://www.proix.com/product/sys_gr_vg/index.html


If I were doing this today,  Id have to charge twice that.

thebrushwithin

Since I'm not using them live, I am racking them sideways on a slide out drawer.
Works well, and is inexpensive for studio use. If I need to edit, a lot, I set it on a table
in front of me., but for small tweaks, just extend the slide out shelf.

Francis 7

I'm thinking about mounting them to an upside-down roll-out shelf in a rack, with the rack rails ending a few spaces short of the top (so the 88 or 8 will have clearance room), and the rack itself being extra wide with spacers on the sides for rails to be mounted to (so the rack will still accommodate normal 19" gear).

The problem with this is the rack would probably be to unwieldy to use for both the 8 and the 88, I'd probably have to pick one. It would also be wasteful of space, but that's minor. This problem has been annoying me for years, and has gotten me away from GK gear because of it. Sucks :(

Brush, do you have a picture of your sideways rig? That may be enough for me. I would be using them live, but I wouldn't need to look at them so that may work. Thanks!

Jim Williams

Interesting...... I have thought the GR-55 would be better as a rack unit.
Skype: (upon Request)

Everything from modeling to the real deal, my house looks like a music store.

Francis 7

I agree Jim, I may have bought one if that was the case. I guess Roland expects us to be surrounded by foot pedals...! It's a shame, and I think you'd see a lot more of their gear in the 'pro' market if that was the case. But I understand that they figure Average Joe Guitarist sees a rack unit and moves on. Too bad.

Elantric

I think they just need a more recent "poll" to determine what people want.

I'm in my late 50's and I know several "peers" who are in top engineering management at Guitar Audio companies and the global consensus in my age group is

* MIDI is dead (use more modern methods like OSC, PD) 
* 19" Rack Gear is Dead (todays gear is laptop computer  / Tablet based)   


Realize the above statements are totally NOT MY Opinion! 

thebrushwithin

#11
@Francis7...I have recently torn that rack down, to rearrange my studio a bit, so maybe tomorrow I can at least get that part reassembled, and I will snap a pic of it. Basically, as you face the. Rack, pull out the sliding shelf, and the back of the VG8 is facing to your left.
As far as the folks that make the calls on equipment, thinking that racks are dead, they couldn't be more wrong, IMO. We saw what demand Kemper had for a rack version of a KPA, in fact i would still be Kemperless, if the toaster was the only option, and judging from the Kemper forum, i am hardly alone.
I think everything being tabletop is really shortsighted. If my equipment was all tabletop design, I would have to have 2 or 3 6ft fold up tables to sit them on. These folks act like the consumer is only going to buy one or two items for their recording needs. I really wish I had soldering skills, and normal mechanical skills, cause I have taken my VG8  apart, and know it to be somewhat simple, in theory,if you could get the proper holes punched into the metal rack, at a metal shop. I have a part time gig as a recording engineer, at a high end electronics manufacturer, and have done a little bit of work in several stages of the products' assemblies. You need to reposition one of the circuit boards parallel to the bottom of the rack, and solder some lead wires, from the buttons, that appear to be soldered directly to the board. This probably means that the buttons will also need a means to keep them positioned securely to the face of the rack. I so wish I had these skills, cause I have seen this sort of thing done. The workaround with a side mount on a sliding shelf is purely economical, until I can persuade one of the assembly guys I work with to make some extra bucks and make them for me. It would be pretty easy for their skills and know how. Keith McMillen racked my VG88 for about $500 total, and the guy in Europe said his DIY VG8 rack cost about 70 euros in parts. I can't stand the tabletop design of the VG99. And I did buy the 5-6 space rack for it, but what an incredible waste of space, the ribbon controller and D beam, that could have been an add on accessory, ala Korg nano controllers.

Elantric

#12
QuoteThese folks act like the consumer is only going to buy one or two items for their recording needs.

Agreed! - Also many Software companies also think that a person who purchases their application will from now on use ONLY their app on their Computer - and their bloatware often kills using the computer for any other task.

I hate the tunnel vision arrogance rampant in our industry.

Francis 7

Quote from: thebrushwithin on May 06, 2013, 05:04:08 PM
@Francis7...I have recently torn that rack down, to rearrange my studio a bit, so maybe tomorrow I can at least get that part reassembled, and I will snap a pic of it. Basically, as you face the. Rack, pull out the sliding shelf, and the back of the VG8 is facing to your left.


      Thanks so much, I figured but I'd just like to see it :) I figure I can rig up a patch panel or something and connect it to my switchblade, so live I won't need to look at it and control everything with my Yamaha footboard.

     I have to say I agree wholeheartedly with you Brush, as a producer/engineer myself, I see racks of gear all the time. In my own band, both the other guitarist and I are using AxeFX 2's, and I know of quite a few bands that are either using them, have them in their rigs, or often, using them hidden and having unmiked or empty cabs on stage, and I use the re-amping all the time, it's amazing. It's even a pro tools interface when I need something quick and portable. It just baffles me that Roland wouldn't even consider a flagship "show the tech off" rack as a showcase for their COSM technology, and then use the ad claim that their floor units are 'descended' from that unit...

      A few years ago I wrote Keith and he offered to sell me his racked 88. I couldn't buy it at the time and I've been kicking myself ever since. If you find anyone willing to do it, count me in, I'll pay for both my 8 and 88 to be racked. I do know some electronics guys (I can only do basic soldering stuff) who might be able to help. Any idea how that 70 Euros guy did it?! I cannot believe this has been bugging me since 1997!!

thebrushwithin

#14
@Francis7...Here are the pics. This will NOT work for live use, as the drawer is not deep enough to close a front rack lid. Maybe you could modify it. If you are good at that sort of thing, I would go with a metal roll out shelf, that you could screw the VG8 bottom onto: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=544263&Q=&is=REG&A=details BUT, you would still have to modify the depth for travel racks, using a very deep rack. I do not use mine live, and probably will not in the future, but I still would like to combine the sounds with the 88, and the 99, and having it racked would encourage that combination, in the studio.
For now, it allows me to stack vertically, but having it retro fitted into a rack casing, is the best solution. I am still working on it, if the guys at work think they could pull it off, I think they might do multiple ones for anyone interested. since I have two, one may serve as the guinea pig.

Francis 7

Thanks Brush! Helpful, indeed. I think I can do this in a 22" deep road rack, the extra-deep ones you see for power amps. Most of the rack makers have these, so if I just screw it on more towards the back I should be able to do it. The cable routing will be the trickiest part, but I figure if I make a patch panel with most of the cables and maybe velcroing my GKP-4 somewhere oughtta do the trick. For now.

But that still won't stop me from wanting to rack both units, that's the best solution. If you can get one of your guys to do it, I'll happily pay for it. :)

Currently convincing my bandmate to wire me up one of those DB25 printer switcher boxes with 13 pin DINS so I can have a couple of guitars plugged into my V-stuff...

thebrushwithin

Good deal!! Buy the shelf first, before the large rack, because, on the wooden shelf, as I showed you,
there is a bit of a "lip" at the rear of the fixed assembly, which may interfere with what you wish to do. I have never owned the metal shelf, so I don't know if it will pose the same problem. Buy it first, so you can return it, if necessary. I feel pretty certain you can do this though. If I get someone to bite on this, I'll let everyone know, for sure. I'm glad I could help some.

Francis 7

Well, my VG shelfy thingy has not worked out, not because I couldn't do it, but because it's just too large. I'm really needing to rack my 88 (and/or 8) and I just look at it and I want to take a saw to it... :) This is soooooo frustrating, and aside from here, it seems no-one wants to help. Ugh.

Elantric

#18
Here is the original 7 year old thread from the Yahoo VG-88 Veditor Group where Keith McMillen posted he was doing a special run of VG-88 Rackmount kits - observe its from 2006, and Keith no longer performs these conversions
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/VEditor/message/1714

QuoteHi All,

Finally can quote the kit. Price for all components
(Super rugged extruded aluminum rack with silk
screened front & rear panels, stuffed and tested front
panel board, GK pickup Y -parallel output board,
internal cabling & adapters, all hardware and
instructions) will be $375 plus shipping.

We need to get 25 orders to be able to keep this price
point other wise it really skyrockets. This is for
VG-88 and V-Bass only. No VG8 at this time.

I will need a paypal deposit or check for $250(Payment
details later). Balance due when the systems are ready
to ship. Lead time is 8-10 weeks.

The racking is completely non-destructive. You can
revert to the original floor format at any time.

Skills needed will be some soldering (mostly the
transformer and power switch) which is pretty basic.
The extra GK Y output will require some finer
soldering as you will be attaching leads to the main
PCB. This is optional - if you do not want or need a Y
out don't have to install it.

Allright.

Keith



Remember today Keith McMillen is far too busy pursuing other interests (like running KMI and developing new firmware for the Quneo)  to find time to rackmount a 14 year old Roland VG-88 - Remember bulk of the VG-88 internal components are no longer available, and the risk is extremely high of ending up with a nice looking rack that refuses to power up after all the mods, and of course most authorized Roland repair centers will refuse to work on a rack mounted VG-88 too.

Francis 7

Thanks Elantric, I'm actually a group member and it came up again recently, I wrote Keith on the off chance but he didn't write back, but I totally understand since he's got his very cool products and company to deal with. Last time I wrote he had one he was willing to sell me (whole unit, not the kit) and at the time I couldn't pounce on it, thanks to a root canal...!

I really am just voicing my frustration to like-minded individuals... It helps in small ways.

That said, I honestly don't care if an attempt ends in failure. 8s and 88's are so cheap nowadays I would easily sacrifice one if it meant that it may actually work. At this point I'd love to continue using them, but in reality I've mainly moved on to an AxeFx 2. I just really love the tuning capabilities and there's a couple of sounds that I just can't replicate on anything else, if not I'd probably just build a guitar and stick Variax guts in it or something.

Anyway, thank you guys for the support, I hope I don't come off as a whiner, I'm just passionate about this stuff and I really have loved being a v guitarist all these years. I just didn't hit it off with the 99 and since I'm the vocalist as well as guitarist, I have tons of things to set up at gigs and no time to do it, so a rack 88 would be a godsend.

LinzHenderson

Hi guys,

It was my video that Brush referred to in this post. I really enjoyed the VG-8 rackmount, but went down the VG-99 route so sold the rack version I made. I always had the feeling that the 99 didn't quite do it for me compared to the VG-8 - in fact, I'm on my third 99 after changing my mind so often!

I pre-ordered a GP-10, but after looking at the manual, decided to cancel until I've had a chance to try one in person. I found a VG-8 on eBay, so bought it to have something a bit more compact than my racked 99 & Mac Mini setup. However, when it arrived, it turned out to be a U.S. model (I'm in the UK) with a bulky external transformer! I'm not sure it's suitable, but the guy seems to be ignoring my request for a refund (he made no mention of the power transformer or model).

I've been thinking about what I want to do, and one of my options is to do another rack conversion. Being a 110V U.S. model, I thought I'd ask here if anyone would be interested in buying a converted VG-8? I've had a lot if feedback about my old conversion, so it seems to be something desirable to certain people. As a backup, I did have someone in the UK interested in one, but they're not keen on the 110V plus transformer option as it defeats the purpose of slimming it down to fit his rack.

If I can return it, I probably will, but if I'm stuck with it then I'll start pricing up the parts and shipping etc.

Elantric

#21
QuoteI've been thinking about what I want to do, and one of my options is to do another rack conversion. Being a 110V U.S. model, I thought I'd ask here if anyone would be interested in buying a converted VG-8? I've had a lot if feedback about my old conversion, so it seems to be something desirable to certain people. As a backup, I did have someone in the UK interested in one, but they're not keen on the 110V plus transformer option as it defeats the purpose of slimming it down to fit his rack.

FWIW - a third option is  swap out old USA version parts for UK version parts

Contact Roland UK Support - and order

Roland P/N 22453553D0 (TRANSFORMER 230V/240V) = AC Mains Internal Transformer for a UK VG-8

and

Roland P/N 00128789 ( CCT 2102-0201 2.5A/250V/2P  / AC Inlet(230V,240VE,240VA))  = AC Mains AC Power Inlet for a UK VG-8

along with a  UK style AC Mains Power cord.

a UK style AC cord 




https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11091.0;attach=9118

Assuming the VG=8 UK AC Mains Internal Transformer is still available (should be as Roland typically employed same AC Main Internal transformer in other 1990's era Roland Keyboards .

thebrushwithin

QuoteI thought I'd ask here if anyone would be interested in buying a converted VG-8?

Hey Linz,
Depending on cost, I would definitely be interested! I have 2 US VG8's, so maybe some deal could happen. I will only want one done, depending on the cost. Happy that you are considering doing this, as they are really dynamite units, that deserve a rack. PM me about it. Thanks!
Mark

Francis 7

PM sent (and to Brush). I also recently bought another 88 to see what can be done (not by me, but to see if I can find someone to help). The main board is much smaller than the 8. I may even just remove the expression pedal and saw off the rightmost 20% of the case, and mount the rest of it into a rackmount shelf. ;D I realize this is ridiculous, but I don't really have a choice anymore! Luckily, V-stuff is really cheap right now.

thebrushwithin

@Francis7
I have an 88 rack mounted by Keith McMillen, in a one space rack. I know he doesn't have the time to do them anymore, but perhaps he has a leftover kit, or at least a parts list. He is cool about responding to such a request. I have been using it for about 30 hrs. a week, for several years, and it has been flawless!
I would be thrilled to get my VG8 racked. Hope this leads to something.