Monolith - Amazing analog guitar synth just released

Started by jassy, April 18, 2011, 07:14:28 AM

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jassy

I have just discovered Monolith some days ago, its a vst plugin analog guitar synth and today discovered that the demo has been released today.

Played for a couple of hours and I'm really impressed.

The latency, tracking and playability is very good, if not the best (at least to my knowledge there is nothing better and I tried the frettedsynths and others), its very like the GR300 in the way it translates the playing nuances to the synth sound produced (no pitch to midi), but with a much more broad sound palette and an amazing analog synth sound.

The latency is minimal (according to the producer its 7-8 ms) and if your PC can use a very low latency the experience is very satisfying. It tracks equal low and high notes, its seems even better at low notes! so maybe it would work very well with bass (finally?!).

A really amazing tool, I would love to see what others think about it.

Here is the demo:
http://sentientfx.com/#/forum/4549551706

http://sentientfx.com/#/guitar-synth/4545005053

"Monolith is the world's first monophonic, low latency VST guitar synthesizer. Just plug in your electric guitar, (no MIDI interface or other modifications necessary) and start playing phatt bass sounds or searing leads courtesy of the 3 oscillators and 24 dB/octave filter...
As users of the famous Mini-Moog found out in the 70's, (and are still finding out today), the difference between 3 oscillators and just 2 has dramatic effect on the sound . The reason is that when 2 de-tuned oscillators sound together, phase cancellations mean that the sound thins out periodically. Using  3 oscillators mitigates this effect by producing a more complex phase interaction. Monolith's innovative modulators also feature a complex LFO with a sample and hold function for cool sequencer-type effects and 3 "ADG" (Attack, decay, guitar) envelopes. The "G" part of the acronym puts the sustain/release segment of the envelope  under the control of the player's guitar This provides a natural feel to the synth making it eminently playable. In fact playing "Monolith" feels like playing through an effect because of the "literal nuance interpretation" algorithms built in to the synth's architecture. On board signal processing is available courtesy of the "Hive" chorus generator featuring up to 16 stages of chorus producing dense clouds of sound and a 10 second,(max) stereo delay module with host sync.
"






audiotrax

#1
That is REALLY cool!  Thanks for bringing it to our attention.  I love the "old school" sounds.  You know, you could sequence this in a way by recording your guitar to a track, then running it into the plugin.  Lot's of interesting possibilities here.
Owner of: VG-88, GI-10, Cubase 5, Kontakt, SampleTank, var VSTI's, Roland JV1080.  Strat with GK-2A, two Roland GR500 analog guitar synths

jassy

I'm surprised no one give feedback about it.

After 2 days playing with the demo I'm amazed with the "connection" with the synth that it provides, its immediate and natural, and the synth engine is very good sounding.

I was hoping to Roland to come with something like that in the different reincarnations of the VG series, the GR300 is very good (aside the different problems it has with piezos an rumbling in general) but this one is more conventional like playing an analog synth with the guitar, If Roland had built something like this in the VG99, and polyphonic, I'm sure it would have been very successful.

The main problem is that you need a very good latency in your PC (yes sadly only PC ATM) because the system would add that latency to the 7-8 ms latency that Monolith has per se. In my case I'm playing it with a round trip of 6 ms (64 samples buffer) so the total latency is around 14 ms and it feels very natural around all the fretboard.



Elantric

QuoteIn my case I'm playing it with a round trip of 6 ms (64 samples buffer) so the total latency is around 14 ms and it feels very natural around all the fretboard.

Just curious what is your Computer CPU type and Sound card type?

Gastric

I tried it briefly. It seems fine with some interesting presets. I personally hate demos that pause the sound every 60 seconds though, it's a real turnoff.

jassy

Quote from: Elantric on April 20, 2011, 10:01:30 AM
Just curious what is your Computer CPU type and Sound card type?

My actual PC is an I7 950 and the soundcard a RME Fireface800. I can use also the lowest latency (48 samples) but 64 samples is already a very good one. The i7 are amazing at low latency and the new i7 sandy bridge are even better, so that the lowest latencies are no longer a problem in the computer world. I thing that Avid released the new native protools, apart from other reasons, for this in particular one, as the "no latency" in the Protools systems was one of their main reasons to differentiate it from other native DAWs.

Next thing I will do is test Monolith with the laptop that I use for live playing sometimes, I used it at 96 samples buffer (with the VG99), I think it would be also enough to play comfortably with it.


jassy

#6
Tried this new beta and noticed it has some big and very welcome improvements:

Latency reduced, now only 3,5 ms in the low E, very impressive!.
Improved detection method, now it plays more natural and less out of control and garbage sounds when 2 notes or unintentional harmonics are played.
Larger GUI, larger text, was a must.
Manual finally.
In general it plays much better more fluid and more controllable, its getting better.



fokof

#7
Quote from: jassy on April 21, 2011, 10:47:39 AM

Latency reduced, now only 3,5 ms in the low E, very impressive!.

3,5ms for : AD converter >pitch to MIDI>CPU processing>DA converter ? 

Possible for you to post a video with left being the guitar direct and right the plugin ?


BTW a VB/VG99 alone gives 4ms latency.


jassy

Quote from: fokof on April 26, 2011, 09:34:06 AM
3,5ms for : AD converter >pitch to MIDI>CPU processing>DA converter ? 

Possible for you to post a video with left being the guitar direct and right the plugin ?


BTW a VB/VG99 alone gives 4ms latency.

According to this page: http://www.joness.com/gr300/MIDI_SPEED.htm the latency of the GR300 emulation of the VG99 is 14,4 ms.

3,5 ms is only for the time Monolith takes to process the guitar signal and generate the synth sound, so to know the total latency you need to ad your PC latency. So if your PC has 6 ms of latency the total would be 9.5 ms, which is much less than many others guitar synths midi or not.

I have no done any test but playing it i dont notice any latency.

And no, there is no pitch to midi involved, its all pure processing (I don't know what exactly is doing Monolith to generate the sound, but it sounds VERY like an analog synth), it works just like the COSM sounds in the VG99 and GR55 or the original GR300 synth.

Elantric

#9
QuoteAccording to this page: http://www.joness.com/gr300/MIDI_SPEED.htm the latency of the GR300 emulation of the VG99 is 14,4 ms.

True - but the GR-300 Emulation takes additional processing time. Many VG-99 COSM models react MUCH faster.

Quote3,5 ms is only for the time Monolith takes to process the guitar signal and generate the synth sound, so to know the total latency you need to ad your PC latency. So if your PC has 6 ms of latency the total would be 9.5 ms, which is much less than many others guitar synths midi or not.

I'll add the fact that your RME 800 and I7 950 based computer ( rare for most folks here) are the essential KEYs to achieving those super low latency numbers!



Also here's a program for testing your audio I/O Latency with your MS Win / Win7 PC

http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml

fokof

Quote from: jassy on April 26, 2011, 11:07:53 AM

3,5 ms is only for the time Monolith takes to process the guitar signal and generate the synth sound, so to know the total latency you need to ad your PC latency. So if your PC has 6 ms of latency the total would be 9.5 ms, which is much less than many others guitar synths midi or not.

OK , so 9,5 ms for the plugin processing of a PC.
Now just check what's the latency of your Pitch to MIDI system and add that number to 9,5.

Then you'll have a better reference to compare to other guitar synths system.

Check this thread on latencies of the VB99.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=1787.0

jassy

Quote from: Elantric on April 26, 2011, 12:01:38 PM
True - but the GR-300 Emulation takes additional processing time. Other VG-99 COSM models react faster.
I'll add your RME 800 and I7 950 based computer are KEY to achieving those low latency numbers!

Also here's a program for testing your audio I/O Latency with your MS Win / Win7 PC

http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml

Yes I know the vg99 is faster in other COSM sounds, but I think the GR300 was the most comparable to Monolith (a complete synthesizer).

While my system is a good one, I dont think its the latest and fastest, anyway the I7´s are here already for 3 year, so I think its very much average today and many others audiocards can do 64 samples. To resume I think 6 ms is a latency very normal at this time.

Anyway not was my point to compare a vst like Monolith to the Roland VG99 very different things and different pourposes, sorry if it sounded like that.


jassy

Quote from: fokof on April 26, 2011, 01:18:03 PM
OK , so 9,5 ms for the plugin processing of a PC.
Now just check what's the latency of your Pitch to MIDI system and add that number to 9,5.

Then you'll have a better reference to compare to other guitar synths system.

Check this thread on latencies of the VB99.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=1787.0


Sorry but i think you don't get the idea about what Im talking, probably because I don't explain myself very well (sorry but my english is very poor).

9,5 ms is the Total amount of latency (if the number published by sentientfx are true) from the moment that I play a note in my guitar and the moment I hear the synth sound from my speakers, nothing more to add.

There is no need for any type of pitch to Midi system to get sound from Monolith, in fact it works with the normal magnetic pickups don't need any type of hexaphonic pickups. Its MONO synth.

I have a slight idea more or less about other guitar synths, I used some and at this moment I own an Axon, VG99 and a GR55.

fokof


fokof

Quote from: jassy on April 26, 2011, 03:25:17 PM

There is no need for any type of pitch to Midi system to get sound from Monolith, in fact it works with the normal magnetic pickups don't need any type of hexaphonic pickups. Its MONO synth.

Sorry , I missed that part ,  I thought it was a softsynth and needed pitch to midi.

My bad   :-\

kenact

Quote from: jassy on April 26, 2011, 03:25:17 PM
There is no need for any type of pitch to Midi system to get sound from Monolith, in fact it works with the normal magnetic pickups don't need any type of hexaphonic pickups. Its MONO synth.

I know this is an old thread, but I've been reading about the Sentient Six lately, and according to some of the documentation I've come across, their guitars did use a hex pickup.  The difference between those guitars and the GK guitars is that there was a mux built into the guitar which sent the individual string signals to the ring of a TRS cable.  There was a demux and a pitch to midi processor in the controller.  According to the available literature, Passac was able to calculate the pitch in the first half of the wave, which is why it was supposed to be so fast.
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Elantric

#16
Update today on Monolith from the developer:
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/midiguitar/message/34759
QuoteHI there, Monolith has taken a bit of a back seat since it was pirated. That kind of took the wind out of our sales. Some work has gone on  of late and there is a polyphonic synth in the pipeline, based on the Roland GR300 but expanded. The website is being re-designed and this new synth will be posted up soon..
Thanks for your interest.
Gareth

Gareth Whittock, sound artist: garethwhittock.co.uk


Quotemany others audiocards can do 64 samples.

Please tell me names  / makes and models. in my world only RME or Focusrite Claret Thunderbolt Audio intefaces ( Mac) work pop free at  those low settings.