Dedicated Laptop For FTP Soft-synth/sample-playback Versus Alternatives

Started by Chumly, April 29, 2014, 08:06:11 PM

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Chumly

Good day Vguitar'ers,

The below particulars are specific to studio use not live use:

I may buy an FTP shortly, and of course it needs external sound generation.

1) Would a powerful PC laptop be able to function as both a soft-synth/sample-playback for the FTP and as fully-fledged DAW at the same time with no issues? 

2) Would I be better off dedicating a second PC laptop solely for the FTP, and then take the audio output from the FTP dedicated PC laptop (via a good USB interface) to the input of the DAW?

3) If so can you suggest a good two channel USB interface?

4) If I buy the FTP, it would mostly be used in my small studio (and not live) and since I can also play keys, I wonder if there is much benefit to an FTP over keys in the studio. What say y'all?

5) I've read on Vguitarforums.com that the Axon AX100's tracking is inferior to the FTP's but to my abilities I find my AX100 works well but of course I cannot make a direct comparison easily. What say y'all?

6) I wonder what advantages (if any) the FTP has over keys in a small studio environment, and yep I'm aware that a guitar controller can sometimes better nuance woodwind and brass instruments due to the ease of micro-tonal articulations, however in favor of keys there's dual mod wheels, after-touch and pedal control. What say y'all?

7) I would appreciate some recommendations for good PC soft-synth/sample-playback software outside of Kontakt Komplete 9 Ultimate which although no doubt excellent is rather pricey (note I use Sonar X3 Producer).

Obliged I am.
I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong. - Richard P. Feynman

montyrivers

1) yes, but "with no issues" is entirely up to how well you can work with the FTP software.

2) Have you considered using an iphone/ipad instead?  The FTP works great with a Camera Connection Kit and there are boat loads of amazing softsynths on the app store for pennies.

4/6) If you can play keys, and you work well with mod/pitchbend and aftertouch controllers then you will likely do better in terms of individual note expression than any guitar to midi converter.  A guitar is mega expressive, but even the FTP can't capture each nuance of your playing.  Just note velocity and pitch bend, just like a keyboard.

7) Take a look around the forums some more.  There are ongoing discussions all over about different apps and plugins

Chumly

Hello montyrivers and thank you for your response,

1) Yes I understand that how well the hardware/software/human being functions in the context of the FTP is dependent on a number of factors,  I was more wondering how much success people have had with a powerful PC laptop as both a soft-synth/sample-playback for the FTP and a fully-fledged DAW at the same time.

2) I have given consideration to an iphone/ipad however I presently own no Apple products, would not find the portability of an iphone/ipad to be of any benefit, would miss a proper qwerty keyboard, etc.  Also I already own another PC laptop (quad-core, 1 TB HD, 8 meg RAM, etc.) I could use as a dedicated device should it make sense to do so.

4/6) Yes I can play keys, but I cannot play keys in a solo, monophonic, microtonal, expressive manner as well as I can guitar (I'm no Jan Hammer, and even Jan relegates himself to sometimes playing guitar parts with a guitar), however I can play keys much better than guitar when it comes to multitimbral acrticulations and more complex voicings. Inevitably it's a trade off.

7) Sure, I've looked around the forums (been here since 2009) and I've read a number of the ongoing discussions about different apps, plugins, etc.  I was hoping for a short, concise, to the point listing of the most popular/useful ones for the FTP.

Obliged!
I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong. - Richard P. Feynman

Elantric

QuoteI was more wondering how much success people have had with a powerful PC laptop as both a soft-synth/sample-playback for the FTP and a fully-fledged DAW at the same time.

I use this with FTP + a DAW (Logic or Ableton or Reaper or Studio One)  with great results.

http://www.notebookreview.com/notebookreview/apple-macbook-pro-with-retina-display-review-2012/

I bought used MBP Retina $1400
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=6104.msg70814#msg70814



Chumly

Thank you Elantric,

It's good to know that your hardware/software configuration is up to the task of functioning as both soft-synth/sample-playback for the FTP, and fully-fledged DAW at the same time with no issues.  That gives me confidence I'll be able to do similarly.
I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong. - Richard P. Feynman

Elantric

I can only recommend my specific computer.

I had a VERY tough time with Windows computers - nothing even close to the high performance I get with my Mac.

Chumly

I agree, how well the individual hardware pieces are integrated in a computer as well as how compatible the software is with any given hardware configuration makes a big difference.  Even with the most up to date hardware/software there can be issues hence why I've given some consideration to having a dedicated second PC laptop for the FTP.
I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong. - Richard P. Feynman

germanicus

Quote from: Chumly on April 29, 2014, 08:06:11 PM
Good day Vguitar'ers,

The below particulars are specific to studio use not live use:

I may buy an FTP shortly, and of course it needs external sound generation.

1) Would a powerful PC laptop be able to function as both a soft-synth/sample-playback for the FTP and as fully-fledged DAW at the same time with no issues? 

2) Would I be better off dedicating a second PC laptop solely for the FTP, and then take the audio output from the FTP dedicated PC laptop (via a good USB interface) to the input of the DAW?

3) If so can you suggest a good two channel USB interface?

4) If I buy the FTP, it would mostly be used in my small studio (and not live) and since I can also play keys, I wonder if there is much benefit to an FTP over keys in the studio. What say y'all?

5) I've read on Vguitarforums.com that the Axon AX100's tracking is inferior to the FTP's but to my abilities I find my AX100 works well but of course I cannot make a direct comparison easily. What say y'all?

6) I wonder what advantages (if any) the FTP has over keys in a small studio environment, and yep I'm aware that a guitar controller can sometimes better nuance woodwind and brass instruments due to the ease of micro-tonal articulations, however in favor of keys there's dual mod wheels, after-touch and pedal control. What say y'all?

7) I would appreciate some recommendations for good PC soft-synth/sample-playback software outside of Kontakt Komplete 9 Ultimate which although no doubt excellent is rather pricey (note I use Sonar X3 Producer).

Obliged I am.

1) Yes.
2)No.
3)Focusrite Forte
4)If you are competent on keyboards, then no. It really depends on your comfort level on both instruments. As good as the FTP is, you still need to adapt to it. A keyboard is a keyboard is a keyboard. There is no pitch detection involved.
5)Never had an axon, but I did have a Yamaha g50 which was licensed axon tech. The FTP is superior to the g50 regarding tracking accuracy.
6)See answer to #4.
7)Depends on your budget and what type of sounds you are after.
For an inexpensive library of classic synths:
http://www.arturia.com/evolution/en/products/Analog_Lab/intro.html -this is dirt cheap for the thousands of sounds you get.

For classic mellotron sounds:
http://www.gforcesoftware.com/

For orchestra strings, the best in my experience is LA Scoring Strings.
For Choirs, its VOXOS.
For overall orchestral instruments, its the (expensive) Symphobia series (which is mind-blowingly easy to get incredible sounds from).
My albums done with modeling/guitar synth at http://music.steamtheory.com

JTV69/59P/Godin LGXT/Multiac ACS/Variax 700 AC
Helix/FTP/GP10/VG99/SY1000
Traynor k4

Chumly

Thank you germanicus, to the point and well thought out!  One modest additional question if I might: as it relates to 7) how does Kontakt Komplete 9 Ultimate stack up by comparison to the others you mention?  Would it be in the ballpark of:
a) expensive and easy to get incredible sounds from
b) great value for an all-rounder
c) it's OK but most of it can be duplicated for less cash if you're willing to do a bit of customization (which you'll probably have to do anyway no matter what you choose)
I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong. - Richard P. Feynman

Elantric

Review the FTP included apps - this is a significant amount of software,  enough to get you going without spending any more money.

http://www.fishman.com/tripleplay

Complete Software Suite Included
TriplePlay comes complete with all the software you'll need for recording, editing and playing back your music. Take full advantage of powerful MIDI features with your guitar. With the easy and blazingly fast note encoding, preset editor and mixing console, you'll be mixing your own music in no time. Includes full versions of:

Native Instruments – KOMPLETE Elements and GuitarRig LE
Notion Music – PROGRESSION 2
IK Multimedia – SampleTank 2 XT and AmpliTube Custom Shop
PreSonus – Studio One Artist TriplePlay Edition

Fishman TriplePlay - Overview from Guruz Media on Vimeo


Having said that, myself I went for NI Komplete years ago (around $900), and been buying the annual updates (which occurs each year like clockwork)  - typically wait for them to go on sale  - as they do every April or December each year. Recently acquired a N.I. Maschine Studio for better access and integration control in the studio when writing songs - but my Macbook Pro is the key power engine that allows all this integration for my needs.

http://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/maschine/production-systems/maschine-studio/

http://www.native-instruments.com/en/specials/beat-these/

Chumly

Ah yes Elantric, after reviewing the FTP software list it would be a starting point, however in combination with Sonar X3 I'm not sure there would be much of additional benefit (maybe SampleTank 2 XT and KOMPLETE Elements I'm not sure).

I'm not surprised you own NI Komplete given its popularity and I'm tempted. I understand that Apple does at times have better hardware integration than some of its PC equivalents but all is not lost in the PC world as in my case I went for the Sonar recommended product line.
I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong. - Richard P. Feynman

Elantric

QuoteI understand that Apple does at times have better hardware integration than some of its PC equivalents.
Having been there done that - your message is a true understatement.

With Windows I always have a struggle anytime I attempt to do more than one thing at once with any A/V app. Between the ASIO Audio restriction ( no more than one app can access and employ the Official ASIO Audio low latency USB driver at a time - ASIO4ALL introduces severe latencies and last time I used it, ASIO4ALL  truncated all my audio to 16 bits! ),  only 9 MIDI devices can be assigned to Windows apps, and blue screen crashes - even with a modern high end laptop forced my hand in my decision to go OSX. 

The workarounds and gotchas and researching the third party solutions to force Windows to work for my needs  - only to discover that many do not "play well" with each other, or introduce severe audio latency delays literally killed all my available time I had allocated for music. Since migrating over to a Mac - I have far more creative choices in tools and can use them in far more combinations that "Just work"!

On a mac I can use Soundflower and re-route live audio streams to several different audio apps at once
http://music.tutsplus.com/tutorials/quick-tip-routing-audio-between-applications-using-soundflower--audio-16199

As always - your needs may be very different, and many FTP folks are happy with their Windows machine for music- I wasnt.

Today I use and rely on Windows for my electronic engineering tasks, and occasional Sony Soundforge/ Vegas A/V editing.   

If Sonar is your universe - then read  ShawnB's posts as he is a Sonar Guru and has good success using FTP with his Windows machine.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=2695
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8362.0

 

   

Chumly

I understand your POV Elantric, and far be it for me to be the arbiter of the best way to accomplish any one else's computer music goals, except perhaps to gently mention that Sonar is alive and well using thier recommended hardware (as I have done) and/or this fine fellow who'll put it all together for you http://www.studiocat.com/open_cart/

I am not worried about video editing as you would be, and of course I very much appreciate your much more experienced perspective!

I will absolutely read ShawnB's posts and you guys are truly the best!
I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong. - Richard P. Feynman

germanicus

Quote from: Chumly on April 30, 2014, 10:18:21 AM
Thank you germanicus, to the point and well thought out!  One modest additional question if I might: as it relates to 7) how does Kontakt Komplete 9 Ultimate stack up by comparison to the others you mention?  Would it be in the ballpark of:
a) expensive and easy to get incredible sounds from
b) great value for an all-rounder
c) it's OK but most of it can be duplicated for less cash if you're willing to do a bit of customization (which you'll probably have to do anyway no matter what you choose)

Kontakt ultimate 9 is a grand i believe. it comes with a fair amount of products. For cinematic sounds, they wont match up favorably with the ones I mentioned, as LASS/Voxos/Symphobia are more oriented for film scoring/pro level. This isnt to say the Komplete products arent good, i cant really speak from experience as i havent used the ones you get with Ultimate. Its just with string/orchestral libraries, you usually get what you pay for.

It depends on your needs. Do you need to have the specificity of a library like LASS, wherein you have multiple libraries of seperate violin/viola/cello/bass sections each ranging in various size increments from solo to full section, playing multiple sordino/tremolo/spiccato/staccato/pizzicato/ legato/gliss articulations? The results you can achieve with it are astounding, but may be complete overkill.

Symphobia series is an absolutely amazing library to use with guitar synth, as its strength lies in its series of 'multi' sounds that map/combine an entire orchestra across the keyboard range, and can really save time when you want to get a huge 'epic' sound like something out of a hans zimmer modern action score.

I looked at Komplete myself, but chose to piecemeal together the things i really wanted, and just get the sounds I would use. Komplete had alot of stuff I would never use.

I would recommend listening to demos of all these libraries, and really thinking of what sounds you need. Good luck!
My albums done with modeling/guitar synth at http://music.steamtheory.com

JTV69/59P/Godin LGXT/Multiac ACS/Variax 700 AC
Helix/FTP/GP10/VG99/SY1000
Traynor k4

Chumly

Hello germanicus, I am appreciative!  I would classify my home studio in the context of amateur in that it's unlikely I will earn enough to compensate for the costs. So as to needs they are based on budget and time constraints and whatever muse catches my fancy.  Your information (and the others here as well) have indeed helped clarify the hardware/software end of things. Now I have to complete my purchases, assembly the remaining furniture, plug everything all in and...press record; naturally magic will be done (I wish).
I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong. - Richard P. Feynman