GR-55 - Playing PCM Drums

Started by Cricket, September 06, 2011, 04:45:00 PM

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Cricket

Just thought I'd pass this along...

I was fiddling with the gr 55 drum patches and accidentally stumbled on a few "hidden" sounds up above the fretboard on the high E string.  For some reason, they trigger just fine if I just push down the string slightly.   These include wind chimes, sleigh bell, a big bass drum, and a snare drum roll.

Some of you probably know about these already, but if not, and if you use the drums as much as I do, have fun.

curteye

#1
Aloha C, and thanks for the tip.

In my case I can't seem to transpose the drums sounds far enough.
(I typically use kik/snare/closed hat/crash as a kit)

I have found that for me triggering drums sounds work
better on my hi 'E' and 'B' strings an octave up on the fret board.

With my old GR-50 and GR 33 I could get this happening no prob
but on the '55 the transpose function just does not go far enough,
so I still end up playing kik/snare/hats on the hi E and B strings
BUT down around the 5-7th fret. 

This does work but can get a lil 'tricky' when doing snare fills.
(the tom in between the snare and hat can easily be triggered)

My next task is to try and map out a conga/percussion patch.
Wish me luck.
{'-'}
If yer gear ain't breakin' down, you ain't workin' much.

SLICK

So does anyone else find the drum patches almost useless as the snare sounds only trigger if you hit them 'just right'?

I can go all over the fretboard triggering all of the drum sounds hard or soft picking and get the full nuance range from them but with the snare if I hit it too hard it doesn't trigger!!!
This happens in all of the drum patched as far as I can see. Also the drum tones have a lot fewer settings than the other synth patches so no opportunity to adjust nuance or velocity on a patch by patch basis you have to go into the system master settings.

This means that I have to either wind down the nuance cut off or hit the note with just the right strength to get the snare to trigger!

I can't see any reason why this would be and it make the drum parches practically unusable.
Parker fly deluxe,
Roland GR-55,
Laney LC30II

curteye

#3
Aloha  Slick,

I too had probs with this snare drum thing and then I read somewhere on this board
(I believe it was in the 'Tips and Tricks in the 'Top Things to Know' section) how to fix it.

Go to 'Nuance Trim' (in System settings) and set it to '8'. The snare will now be usable.

I would suggest playing with different values as I now have mine set to '6'.

HTH
{'-'}
If yer gear ain't breakin' down, you ain't workin' much.

mbenigni

I'll have to experiment with Nuance.  Honestly the whole topic still confuses me a little bit.  Wouldn't it suffice to turn Nuance off in the PCM tone itself, rather than changing the feel of the GK across the board?

Up until now I've just made a point of playing the drumkits with my fingers instead of my pick.  They're a little more stable that way.

Boomski

I have been trying to find a way to change which drums are triggered by which strings ( on a 6 string bass ( due to latency ) having the bass drum triggered by the low B string is probably the worst assign possible when trying to set up a drum groove  ) . As things are now when I use the transpose function for a PCM drum patch just the pitches change , not the positions of the notes that trigger the sounds . Am I missing something ? This post seems to imply that the GR-55 can in fact change which frets/strings trigger which sounds .

Thanks .

Quote from: curteye on September 06, 2011, 07:25:22 PM
Aloha C, and thanks for the tip.

In my case I can't seem to transpose the drums sounds far enough.
(I typically use kik/snare/closed hat/crash as a kit)

I have found that for me triggering drums sounds work
better on my hi 'E' and 'B' strings an octave up on the fret board.

With my old GR-50 and GR 33 I could get this happening no prob
but on the '55 the transpose function just does not go far enough,
so I still end up playing kik/snare/hats on the hi E and B strings
BUT down around the 5-7th fret. 

This does work but can get a lil 'tricky' when doing snare fills.
(the tom in between the snare and hat can easily be triggered)

My next task is to try and map out a conga/percussion patch.
Wish me luck.
{'-'}

Cricket

#6
You can't change which notes trigger which sounds, but you can use an alt-tuning to put these notes in more convenient places.  How you might want to do that is up to you.

And, to amend my original post a little, I actually found 14 drum sounds below low-E on the guitar, and 24 above the 24th fr on the high E.  Makes sense that there would be about 88, since the chip is the same as the sound canvas. 

You can get those using an alt-tuning as well.

@Boomski - If the kick drum is triggered by your open low B-string, then bass mode is a little different from guitar mode, but the layout of the notes is probably the same, with everything down a 4th.

Litesnsirens

Alt tuning!!!  So that's the secret.  I'm gonna have fun tomorrow, map things out in a way that triggers better and is easier to play...

Cricket

Hi Lites -

As I was replying to this thread last night, it occurred to me this was the answer to a drum thing we had going on another thread, re: kick drum workarounds.  Alt-tuning with 2 low E's = much faster kick beats.

Duh.

And the best part is, I use alt tunings with the drums anyway, but it took me 'til last night to think of that one.  (smacks forehead)

Litesnsirens

Holy Crap!!!  This changes everything, and yes Cricket this was truly a smack myself in the head moment.  I detuned the high E to -24 so that the kick is on the open E and then tuned down the B string so that the hats start on the open B.  That way I can keep hitting the hi hat along with and in between the kick and snare hits which is a really easy way to do all the basic drum grooves. Those high strings trigger so much faster and accurately that I can pretty much do anything I want and it keeps up.  I haven't even started trying to get into doing anything with the rest of the strings, suffice to say that I will try to map it so that stuff that doesn't get played in rapid succession will be on the lower strings.  Thanks for starting this thread, this one is a huge break through!!  While I was at it, it occurred to me to detune one of my jazz bass patches -5,-5,-5,-5,-4,-5 so that I have a 6 string bass just for fun.  Nice when you don't want to have to go for any of those drop D's everything is just readily available.  I first just tried the baritone, but there is that wonky B string thing that you need to adjust for.

Litesnsirens

I came close to another good idea but was shot down when I realized it wasn't possible.  And that was to put the alt tuning of the B string on the control pedal, so that I could hit the control pedal and switch from a hat to a ride cymbal.  But there isn't access to individual alt tunings of strings on the control pedal only alt tuning on and off. 

So as a work around I put the Kick Snare exactly as I have them on the E string also on the G string and put the ride on the D string so then I can just switch to playing the middle 2 strings in the exact same pattern as I am playing the highest two strings to switch from hat to ride and back.  The way it's laid out it also gives me some nice options for hitting crash cymbals along with the Kick. It still works but I came to realize that even the G String doesn't track/trigger as well as the high E string.  If I do rapid kick drum picking on the high E I get every hit.
On the G string, it's better than where it originally was on the low E but still doesn't get every note.

This brought me around to another radical idea. I got to thinking for an experiment maybe I would string up my guitar with 6 high E strings all tuned to the high E and then just use the alt tuning so that when I play them it sounds like a regularly strung guitar.  I doubt that I will seriously get around to trying this out, but I'm thinking maybe the drums are just the most noticeable at pointing out the weakness in tracking on the lower strings.  It would be so weird to play like that but I wonder if it would improve the tracking across the board for every PCM tone in the GR-55....food for thought!!!

Cricket

"...I came close to another good idea but was shot down when I realized it wasn't possible.  And that was to put the alt tuning of the B string on the control pedal, so that I could hit the control pedal and switch from a hat to a ride cymbal.  But there isn't access to individual alt tunings of strings on the control pedal only alt tuning on and off."

Why couldn't you just do a user alt-tuning with just the B-string altered as you like it and assign that to CTL, either toggle or moment?

Boomski

#12
@Cricket . Thanks , I see what I was missing before . As a bassist , I had never actually tried using Alt Tunings on any of the sounds so when I went to adjust them in the Drum Patch and couldn't find them I assumed that parameter was missing from the drums just like most everything else is . And when I found your post I thought you were using the Tone Pitch Shift as a work around . Going back through the parameters again I finally found the Alt Tunings hidden under OTHER in the Patch Master settings . For the record , for now I just Alt Tuned my A string down -10 and turned the volumes down to 0 on my E and B strings and now for my purposes everything seems usable . By the way , I would describe this exactly as "changing which notes trigger which sounds" ( albeit only in preset groups ) .

Thanks again .

Litesnsirens

Quote from: Cricket on August 19, 2012, 01:35:33 PM
"...I came close to another good idea but was shot down when I realized it wasn't possible.  And that was to put the alt tuning of the B string on the control pedal, so that I could hit the control pedal and switch from a hat to a ride cymbal.  But there isn't access to individual alt tunings of strings on the control pedal only alt tuning on and off."

Why couldn't you just do a user alt-tuning with just the B-string altered as you like it and assign that to CTL, either toggle or moment?

The problem is I am already altering the tuning so that I can get the kick and the snare (normally on the low E) up on the high E string.  And I have the B string set up with the hats (normally on the A string). The only option that is available for controlling the alt tuning is turning it on and off, you can't isolate any strings.  So you turn it off and the kick and snare are back on the low E turn it on and you have everything back the way you want it.  There's just no room for any other tricks.

Cricket

#14
"...The problem is I am already altering the tuning so that I can get the kick and the snare (normally on the low E) up on the high E string.  And I have the B string set up with the hats (normally on the A string)."

Oh yeah... I forgot about that.  Duh.  :P  Well, if you're looking to get the ride on an open string, I guess you could always tune your G string up to A?

Alternatively, Ride Cymbal is also its own PCM voice, so you could turn that on and off with a ctl assign.  You could switch back and forth from kit to ride that way, even just on the B string.  (One assign to turn off kit, one to turn on ride, both assigned to ctl? And maybe affecting only string 2?)

Not sure how you prefer to use your drum patches, but that could work also, esp if you use them with a looper like I usually do.

KuRi

#15
Hi!

let me explain myself. I would like to be able to play drums, but always the same note (same drum) no matter what string or fret I play. This way I can blend my guitar with always the same drum instrument.

Right now, when selecting a drum set, every string/fret (note) plays a different instrument (tom, snare, cymbal, etc...) but I would like to set it to play always the same.

Is it possible?
thanks!

MusicOverGear

IDK the GR-55 but I know the parameter you are looking for is called keyboard tracking - that's what it was called on old school synths. It determines whether the oscillator(s) raise and lower frequency according to the keyboard (guitar).

Anyway that gives a search term until someone comes along who knows the GR-55

HTH
Michael

Elantric

#17
QuoteRight now, when selecting a drum set, every string/fret (note) plays a different instrument (tom, snare, cymbal, etc...)
Thats how the GR-55 is designed to function.
Too bad the internal PCM tones can not be remote triggered via remote MIDI messages.



shawnb


No.  However...  The question brought to mind an earlier thread where folks found that transposing drum patches greatly improved usability:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4437.msg47139#msg47139

A sample:
Quote from: Litesnsirens on August 19, 2012, 12:39:40 PM
ISo as a work around I put the Kick Snare exactly as I have them on the E string also on the G string and put the ride on the D string so then I can just switch to playing the middle 2 strings in the exact same pattern as I am playing the highest two strings to switch from hat to ride and back.  The way it's laid out it also gives me some nice options for hitting crash cymbals along with the Kick.

Not what you're looking for, but a different approach to improving usability of drum patches. 
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

KuRi

Thanks for the answers... too bad I can't do this, because even choosing single drum instruments results in different pitch sampling :(

viramundo

I play the drum sounds on the GR55 at the beginning of the video on this thread

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=12499.0

It wasn't easy I can tell you.

Firstly playing drums on the GR55 is incredibly unforgiving but I find the thinner the strings you use the more reliable the results so I would advise messing with the alt tunings on the patch until you find the sounds you want at convenient positions on the 2 top strings. These work way better than trying to play them on the bass strings. If you're trying to this on a bass guitar, good luck!

Secondly, on this vid I play the simple drum pattern into the GR55's looper & that is another unforgiving feature, it took me quite a few takes to get it right.