RC-300 Feature Requests

Started by Hopkins, May 20, 2012, 05:26:57 PM

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Syph

Hi guys!

I have been struggling for a while with the issues you have dubbed Loop Sync SNAP, and Loop sync GAPLESS. While I could previously achieve these things to some extent, I found it made using the looper as an improv tool too damn finicky and temperamental.... (i am a solo six string bassist, making a living a street performer, so there is a lot of improv)

Then yesterday happened, and I am not entirely sure how I stumbled on it, but....

Settings
All Tracks measure : FREE
Single track play mode: OFF
Tempo sync for all tracks: OFF
Loop sync for all tracks: ON
Rhythm guide: ON

With these settings I could do a few interesting things like have gapless plackback of a silly loop lengths (loop one 1 bar, loop two 2 bars, loop three 3 bars, or other combinations of 2, 3 and 4 bars etc etc...) WITHOUTH a gap in the playback. I also found that it was Auto quantizing my loop lengths to the nearest measure. I could start and stop a loop independently and it's relative position to the others would be maintained....

Now, it is not fair to say that this is perfect for everyone, because I noticed one little strange piece of behavior. When I hit the START ALL button, the loops would then start playing in typical loop sync mode, ie, the start of each loop would be synced.

I feel like I am doing a pretty shoddy job explaining this, but from what I have read in the other threads seems to show that this little trick has yet to be discovered....

Oh, and I will check my firm ware later today, just to be sure....

And since this is my first post, I would like to say a big thanks to all the work you guys have den posting info and help about this beast of a gadget! It has helped me a lot over the last few months :D

Hopkins

Hi Syph, welcome to the forum!

I will just write :o for now and then rush off to test this, interrupting my previously hurried attempts to finish some work at 2am over here in the UK...

Back soon!

Hopkins

Syph, you beauty, you're absolutely right!  Further testing shows that the rhythm guide is not required to be on either, and tracks can be pre-set to a number of measures rather than set to FREE, so the only significant setting, it seems, is to have Loop Sync ON and Tempo Sync OFF for all tracks.  Other combination tests pending...

What a bizarre way to organise things.  I wonder if the developers named the options in Japanese, and the translation into English of "Tempo Sync" and "Loop Sync" was poorly considered?

Wow, this is really quite a result, suddenly some really crazy syncopated ideas are possible...  For testing, I was just playing slow arpeggios in prime numbers, e.g. one note per measure, with the tracks set to 2, 3, 5 measures (either pre-set measures, or set automatically in FREE mode).  With that combination, the whole pattern will only repeat once every 30 measures (2x3x5=30), so you would have 30 unique combinations of 8 notes, even though each individual note is repeating more frequently...  There is the possibility for inventive soloing which far exceeds my technical ability, but I am sure that, with the power of composition, there will be some great possibilities for musical weirdness!

Syph, if you ever pop over to the UK, let me know and I'll buy you a beer ;)

Now, I have a whole bunch of posts to edit...

Syph

#53
Brilliant! I have looking for an excuse to go to the UK now for a while     8)

Though uh, sorry about distracting you at 2am...

I should be getting a solid 12 hours or so of practice with these settings over the next 36 hours so I'll keep you posted on interesting things I discover.

In regards to single track hybrid play mode, if you set a foot switch to toggle between loop 2&3 play/stop I think (well, maybe hope) this may achieve that functionality.... (so we have assignment one, source control one, target track 2 play/stop, then we have assignment two, source control one, target track 3 play/stop)

I want to add a few feature requests as well, but my brain is still all mushy from yesterday's learning curve....




Hopkins

Yes, good idea regarding the hybrid mode.  Funnily enough, I do exactly that in a song that I am currently working on, but it does require an additional pedal (or perhaps the remapping of Effects or All Start Stop) since you need to make the initial recordings and playback with the standard Rec/Dub/Play buttons before you can toggle between them.  I think it would still be useful in some cases to have a dedicated "hybrid" mode so that it can all be controlled by the main buttons.

Back to the Loop/Tempo Sync testing:

If you set the first two tracks to Loop Sync ON, Tempo Sync OFF and the third to Loop Sync ON, Tempo Sync ON, then the behaviour is different depending on whether you set the tracks to FREE or a specific number of measures: 

  • If they are set to FREE, then tracks 1 and 2 behave as described above *until* the third track is recorded.  At this point, the looping behaviour reverts to "normal" and tracks which do not divide into the longest track will loop a whole number of times and then insert a gap until the longest track loops.
  • If the third track is set to a specific number of measures, then the looping behaviour is always as "normal", and never as described above.

So, let's say you have it in FREE mode with tempo sync off for 1 & 2 but on for 3.  Then you record a 2 measure track 1 and a 3 measure track 2.  They loop in a seamless, syncopated manner.  Now suppose you record a 5 measure track 3.  Suddenly play back alters to play track 1 twice with a 1 measure break and track 2 once with a 2 measure break, and they all start from the beginnng again when track 3 loops (this is what I mean by "normal" behaviour").  If you erase track 3, then tracks 1 and 2 start looping in a seamless, syncopated manner again.

If you try to pre-set the tracks to  2, 3, and 5 measures then, even though only track 5 has Tempo Sync ON, you can never loop track 1 and 2 in a syncopated manner.

Threeleggedyoyo

More questions for anyone with an RC300 and the time to answer... they mostly pertain to reassigning buttons and expansion functions.

1) Looking at the manual, it says the EXP pedal can be assigned to "Master Input (AUX, INS, MIC)" Is there any way to assign it to just ONE of these? Or if you turn one up or down, you get them all?

2) INPUT MIC SWITCH is another interesting one. It looks like it just toggles the MIC input on and off. I'm HOPING that this is actually controlling a bypass option with the MIC input, which would be much more useful. IE when it is "off," the MIC would still be live but would not be recorded doing looping. Please?

I kind of doubt it, but that would be so much more useful than an on/off toggle and would solve a design issue whereas the toggle... doesn't do much.

3) Looking at shawnb's expanded list of assignable functions, it looks like RHY on/off is not one of them? That's odd, since guide on/off is one of the assignable functions to expansion pedals on the RC50. Is that right?

4) The manual talks a lot about setting up the functions of assignable functions on "phrase memory." Does that mean I have to set them for each patch? Or can I just set up my assignments once for the whole system? On the other hand, it talks about toggling assignments 1-8 off on each patch, so maybe it's just a matter of flipping them on and off...

5) The manual says you can undo on tracks individually (yay!!) and that the way to do this is to hold down the record pedal for 2 seconds. What I want to know is if you can do that when the pedal isn't currently active, and without activating it.

For example, on the RC-50 with its "last undo" button, I could record an overdub to Phrase 2, in single mode, jump back to Phrase 1, and then hit "UNDO" and the overdub on Phrase 2 would disappear. On the RC-300, could I do it the same way, or would that 2 second stomp activate Phrase 2 for playback first?

6) Looks like you can assign an expression pedal to the volume of ALL the inputs, but not just 1 of the 3? That's too bad.

Sorry for all my annoying questions. A better question might be "where can I get $500 to get one of my own so I can answer all these myself...?"  :P


Hopkins

1, 2 & 6) No, no, no.  Each of the inputs has gain control and a clipping LED which seems to be designed to be set once for your hardware configuration and then ignored.  No software control over these, and all signals will be mixed into one stereo input.  The only additional control is the ability to mute the mic input - not re-route it.  The software controlled input master level allows you to vary the level of this composite input.  Anything that is on the input will be recorded on any of the tracks.  You can mute the output of the input, but you cannot mute the recording of the input.  However, as you kindly pointed out, you can hack in some of this functionality by imagining that one stereo input is actually two mono inputs and fiddling with the pan controls through the signal chain.  (Having said that, I have still yet to test it personally on the RC-300.)

3) Yes, rhythm on off seems to be limited to the tiny fiddly button on the front.  Strange.  Perhaps it is because the "quantise" behaviour changes when the rhythm is on or off, therefore changing this setting on the fly is not supported.  Or perhaps they forgot.

4) No, all assignments have to be remade for each phase memory.  There does not seem to be a way to set global defaults, or the facility to copy phrase memory settings.  I wonder if it is possible to "hack" this via the USB connection to a PC?  This sounds like an annoying omission, but I have found that I usually like to set things up differently for each song, and that it is actually quite quick to make any "common" changes.

5) With the default assignments, the 2 second undo will begin or stop playback too, so it is of limited use.  However, you can assign an individual track undo/redo function to an external switch.  I have not personally tested this yet.

I hope that helps.  I will try to test the undo function for you later, and also check the microphone mute (I am pretty sure that I did test that, because I would really, really have liked it to be a "mic record bypass" too!).  When I have time I will also test the stereo input routing hack!

Incidentally, you can assign more than one function to each switch.  For example, I have start/stop for more than one track assigned to one switch, which allows me to toggle one off and the other on a bit like in single play mode.  I also sometimes overload the effects on off button with an additional play/stop for a track - this means that I have a "play this track with effects on" button.

Threeleggedyoyo

#57
Quote from: Hopkins on September 12, 2012, 02:16:37 AM
1, 2 & 6) No, no, no.  Each of the inputs has gain control and a clipping LED which seems to be designed to be set once for your hardware configuration and then ignored.  No software control over these, and all signals will be mixed into one stereo input.  The only additional control is the ability to mute the mic input - not re-route it.  The software controlled input master level allows you to vary the level of this composite input.  Anything that is on the input will be recorded on any of the tracks.  You can mute the output of the input, but you cannot mute the recording of the input.  However, as you kindly pointed out, you can hack in some of this functionality by imagining that one stereo input is actually two mono inputs and fiddling with the pan controls through the signal chain.  (Having said that, I have still yet to test it personally on the RC-300.)

3) Yes, rhythm on off seems to be limited to the tiny fiddly button on the front.  Strange.  Perhaps it is because the "quantise" behaviour changes when the rhythm is on or off, therefore changing this setting on the fly is not supported.  Or perhaps they forgot.

4) No, all assignments have to be remade for each phase memory.  There does not seem to be a way to set global defaults, or the facility to copy phrase memory settings.  I wonder if it is possible to "hack" this via the USB connection to a PC?  This sounds like an annoying omission, but I have found that I usually like to set things up differently for each song, and that it is actually quite quick to make any "common" changes.

5) With the default assignments, the 2 second undo will begin or stop playback too, so it is of limited use.  However, you can assign an individual track undo/redo function to an external switch.  I have not personally tested this yet.

I hope that helps.  I will try to test the undo function for you later, and also check the microphone mute (I am pretty sure that I did test that, because I would really, really have liked it to be a "mic record bypass" too!).  When I have time I will also test the stereo input routing hack!

Incidentally, you can assign more than one function to each switch.  For example, I have start/stop for more than one track assigned to one switch, which allows me to toggle one off and the other on a bit like in single play mode.  I also sometimes overload the effects on off button with an additional play/stop for a track - this means that I have a "play this track with effects on" button.

Thanks Hopkins! Very helpful.

Pretty much what I expected. No need to test the undo function with exp pedals as this is quite clear in the manual. I'm just trying to visualize which functions I will need exp pedals for and which I will not.

3) Is a disappointment. Not hugely important but I actually used that sometimes (see below).

4) That's annoying as I would usually keep things the same across the system. Not a deal breaker, though. On the RC-50 I already have several settings I need to make for each patch anyway. Still... that's a lot of presetting on each patch. At least I only have to do it 99 times...

Are you sure that phrase memory settings can't be copied? On the RC-50, you could. After you hit "write" you could change the patch number and then hit "write" again and it would copy your whole patch, settings and all, to that other patch.

1, 2) Both too bad.

QuotePerhaps it is because the "quantise" behaviour changes when the rhythm is on or off, therefore changing this setting on the fly is not supported.  Or perhaps they forgot.

Please elaborate on this. Earlier in the thread I raised a similar concern about the RC-50 and was told (perhaps mistakenly) that this was no longer an issue.

To recap, on the RC-50, if you turn the guide volume all the way down, the quantize feature is deactivated whether you like it or not. Instead you get a function that attempts to guess your BPM based on the length of your phrase. This has been a disaster for me in every case. I need the both the quantize feature and preservation of the BPM I told it to use before I start to record.

The only solutions for me are:

A) Turn the guide volume to "1" and hope nobody notices
B) Use an EXP pedal to turn off the guide immediately after starting playback (It's always on when you hit Record unless the volume is set to zero, but the on/off gives you the ability to turn it on independent of recording, or to turn it off after playback begins).
C) Set the guide to SUB and don't connect the SUB jacks to anything that can be heard live.

I was under the impression that with the RC-300, you could turn the volume to 0 without effecting the  quantize feature. That's what someone said earlier... maybe the "guess BPM" mode is only there if it is totally deactivated (not set to "on at volume 0")?

I hope I'm right. The correction of this issue is one of the leading reasons I want to upgrade.

shawnb

Quote from: Threeleggedyoyo on September 12, 2012, 11:40:31 AMTo recap, on the RC-50, if you turn the guide volume all the way down, the quantize feature is deactivated whether you like it or not. Instead you get a function that attempts to guess your BPM based on the length of your phrase. This has been a disaster for me in every case. I need the both the quantize feature and preservation of the BPM I told it to use before I start to record.

The only solutions for me are:

A) Turn the guide volume to "1" and hope nobody notices
B) Use an EXP pedal to turn off the guide immediately after starting playback (It's always on when you hit Record unless the volume is set to zero, but the on/off gives you the ability to turn it on independent of recording, or to turn it off after playback begins).
C) Set the guide to SUB and don't connect the SUB jacks to anything that can be heard live.

I was under the impression that with the RC-300, you could turn the volume to 0 without effecting the  quantize feature. That's what someone said earlier... maybe the "guess BPM" mode is only there if it is totally deactivated (not set to "on at volume 0")?

The big feature lacking here is the ability to turn rhythm on or off via a footswitch.   The RC300, as noted elsewhere, is otherwise a major improvement on the RC50 here. 

You don't need to 'leave the volume at 1'.  On the RC50, 0 = off, and turned off your tempo as well as your rhythm track, which forced you to do that.   This is not the case on the RC300, you can have tempo on & rhythm volume set to 0.     

The rhythm on/off thing has not bothered me, but only because I don't tend to turn it on or off completely independently of the stored phrases.  I've suggested to others that they try assigning the rhythm volume to a switch, e.g., to toggle between 0 & 100, as a workaround.  That way you can cut rhythm in & out whenever you want.  (You still have flexibility over overall master volume independently.)   

The other "interesting" wrinkle here, that may be helpful depending on what you're trying to do, is that tap tempo turns on the rhythm.   This has bit me before, as I find I'm on a patch with a non-zero rhythm volume & tap the tempo, & the rhythm comes blaring in...   ::)   
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

Threeleggedyoyo

Quote from: shawnb on September 12, 2012, 12:36:08 PM
The big feature lacking here is the ability to turn rhythm on or off via a footswitch.   The RC300, as noted elsewhere, is otherwise a major improvement on the RC50 here. 

You don't need to 'leave the volume at 1'.  On the RC50, 0 = off, and turned off your tempo as well as your rhythm track, which forced you to do that.   This is not the case on the RC300, you can have tempo on & rhythm volume set to 0.     

The rhythm on/off thing has not bothered me, but only because I don't tend to turn it on or off completely independently of the stored phrases.  I've suggested to others that they try assigning the rhythm volume to a switch, e.g., to toggle between 0 & 100, as a workaround.  That way you can cut rhythm in & out whenever you want.  (You still have flexibility over overall master volume independently.)   

The other "interesting" wrinkle here, that may be helpful depending on what you're trying to do, is that tap tempo turns on the rhythm.   This has bit me before, as I find I'm on a patch with a non-zero rhythm volume & tap the tempo, & the rhythm comes blaring in...   ::)

Thanks Shawn. Informative as usual. 8)

Hopkins

Quote from: Threeleggedyoyo on September 12, 2012, 11:40:31 AMAre you sure that phrase memory settings can't be copied? On the RC-50, you could. After you hit "write" you could change the patch number and then hit "write" again and it would copy your whole patch, settings and all, to that other patch.

You are correct - it can be done like this.  You can write the current settings to any other phrase memory.  It is silly that I did not realise this before!

Quote from: Threeleggedyoyo on September 12, 2012, 11:40:31 AM
Quote from: Hopkins on September 12, 2012, 02:16:37 AMPerhaps it is because the "quantise" behaviour changes when the rhythm is on or off, therefore changing this setting on the fly is not supported.  Or perhaps they forgot.

Please elaborate on this. Earlier in the thread I raised a similar concern about the RC-50 and was told (perhaps mistakenly) that this was no longer an issue.

To recap, on the RC-50, if you turn the guide volume all the way down, the quantize feature is deactivated whether you like it or not. Instead you get a function that attempts to guess your BPM based on the length of your phrase. This has been a disaster for me in every case. I need the both the quantize feature and preservation of the BPM I told it to use before I start to record.

The only solutions for me are:

A) Turn the guide volume to "1" and hope nobody notices
B) Use an EXP pedal to turn off the guide immediately after starting playback (It's always on when you hit Record unless the volume is set to zero, but the on/off gives you the ability to turn it on independent of recording, or to turn it off after playback begins).
C) Set the guide to SUB and don't connect the SUB jacks to anything that can be heard live.

I was under the impression that with the RC-300, you could turn the volume to 0 without effecting the  quantize feature. That's what someone said earlier... maybe the "guess BPM" mode is only there if it is totally deactivated (not set to "on at volume 0")?

I hope I'm right. The correction of this issue is one of the leading reasons I want to upgrade.

I remember discussing it with you or at least reading the discussion before, and I seem to remember thinking that it all sounded okay for you.  I do not have an RC-50 so I cannot compare, but I have just fiddled around and tested and here is what happens:


  • If the rhythm guide is off, then the first track will loop at exactly the moment that you hit the pedal, and the tempo will change accordingly.  (The number of measures will also be set if FREE or AUTO is selected.)
  • If the rhythm guide is on, then the tempo is fixed.  When you hit loop or stop then the first track will *continue recording* until the end of the nearest measure, according to the predefined tempo, before looping or stopping.  (This is different for subsequent loops, where hitting loop or stop will cease recording, leaving silence until the end of the nearest measure.)
  • The volume control of the rhythm does not change this behaviour, i.e. you can set it to zero.
  • MIDI start/stop/tempo messages are sent in the same way for any of these modes, so when the rhythm guide is switched off the tempo will change but if the rhythm guide is switch on then the tempo will not change.

Threeleggedyoyo

QuoteYou are correct - it can be done like this.  You can write the current settings to any other phrase memory.  It is silly that I did not realise this before!

Yeah, I just realized you could do this a while back myself. It's funny how much functionality in these things gets glossed over that seems so obvious once you know it's there. Really nice to have forums like this.

As far as the rhythm thing goes, yeah, we talked about it before, I just thought that what you said now sounded different so I was concerned I'd misunderstood. As a quick recap, here's the differences between the two units:

RC-50: Quantize is on when rhythm guide is on. The only way to have the guide off is to set volume to zero, which turns off quantize.

RC-300: Quantize is on when rhythm guide is on, but turning it to zero doesn't disable it. Turning it off does.

Threeleggedyoyo

Ok, yet another question.

This thread got me thinking about the abilities of the Midi THRU jack on the RC-300

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/guitar-pedals-effects-amps-cabs-backline-accessories-etc/751269-midi-synching-boss-rc-300-adrenalinn-iii.html

In short, the question is thus:

You have a Midi Controller hooked up to the Midi IN of the RC-300.
You have a second device hooked up to the Midi THRU of the RC-300.
Device number two would receive the Midi Controller messages.
But would it also receive clock information?


Hopkins

I have not tested this, but it goes against my understanding of the MIDI through jack (and P38 of the manual).  That said, it seems perfectly reasonable that you might want to chain together midi devices, each time adding a bit more information to the signal, in which case I don't know what the solution would be.  I'll post back when I have had time to test.

MoeSnodgrass

#64
Hello:

First post. You guys deserve a lot of credit as this is the most informed and reasoned forum for discussing the RC-300 that I've found. Cudos.

This might be too obvious but as long as we are wishing and hoping, a "feature" I'd like to see is a software to set the Sys, Track and Phrase Memory options outside of the hardware. The hardware is way too clunky to edit with.

Hopkins

Welcome!

Detailed discussion of loop samplers is definitely less readily available than I had imagined, especially since I feel that they tend towards the "techy" side of music making.  One thing I have learned over the last six months is that it rapidly becomes complicated!  Even though the RC-300 has made an excellent job of keeping multiple loops in sync, the fact it has taken so long to figure some of the settings out shows that there is still a way to go to get the perfect user interface.  I imagine that the software loopers will lead the way in this respect, although I haven't tried any personally.

As for your suggestion, tiny LCD displays are never great for setting things up.  That said, I do find changes on the RC-300 relatively quick to make, and I usually don't need to make more than the odd tweak here and there.  (It doesn't compare to the Line6 HD300 that I use for the guitar tone - normally for that I will set a loop playing, put down the guitar and then sit at the computer for an hour tweaking things here and there until it sounds just right!)  I think that when you become fully accustomed with the RC-300 you will probably find it acceptable.  I do recall in the beginning crouching down for a few minutes at a time thinking "which bloody menu is setting X in?", in which case I can understand your desire to have everything nicely laid out on a hi-res computer screen.  However, I am not sure that in the long term the time spent of a decent computer GUI would actually be time well spent on this particular product, but I'd like to hear some other opinions on this - perhaps I am in the minority here!

MoeSnodgrass

#66
Thanks for the warm welcome. I just got the RC-300 and I'm the type of learner that needs to see things graphically. I actually mapped the whole thing out in an open source mindmapping software (VUE, Visual Understanding Environment, great software). It's the only way I could get the bigger picture. I'd be happy to share it if any other noobs like me might find it helpful.

Yea, hopefully others will weigh in on the software option. I count around 50 clicks to get to Assign8, another 125 to get to CC#95, times 99 phrase memories; it just seems a little absurd in the 21st century.

Nice coincidence, I'm using the HD500 for my guitar tones. It gives me footswitches 1-4 plus the looper and tap footswitches to control the RC. Stage footprint will be cumbersome to say the least.

The big problem I'm having is wrapping my mind around looping vocals through the Mic XLR input on the RC. First thing that puzzles me is that the phantom power is persistent; there is no way to switch it on and off. If I want to use a box before the RC, a box that already provides phantom power (needs it), is it a problem that the RC would be adding a second voltage to the signal? It doesn't seem good to me so I've been afraid to try it and I can't find an answer by googling.

If I get past that, I'm still scratching my head over how to route the mic input to one of the phrase memory tracks 1-3. The only option for the mic input I see is On/Off so I'm not getting the vision on how to actually loop the mic and then to send the mic input to either of the outputs (Main, Sub, Both).

Thanks again

Hopkins

Unfortunately, you have hit on what seems to be one of the most significant limitations: there is only one (stereo) input to the actual loop sampler.  Essentially, the three physical inputs get "mixed down" a single stereo input to the loops.  Whatever is on any of the inputs will be recorded.  There is no way to send one input to the outputs without it being recorded, or to say "mic only records on track 1".

A workaround to this has been proposed which takes advantage of the fact that it works in stereo, although I haven't actually got around to testing this myself: use the left and right inputs and pan certain loops hard left or hard right.  Of course, this means that you will have to design mono guitar patches for the HD500, which might be slightly irritating.  At least you have an external box for the mic's phantom power, so you can plug it into a normal input.  (By the way, there is a phantom power switch on the back by the XLR input.)

You can, however, route the input, tracks and rhythm guide to different outputs. 

Hopkins

Quote from: MoeSnodgrass on September 26, 2012, 02:41:08 PMI actually mapped the whole thing out in an open source mindmapping software (VUE, Visual Understanding Environment, great software). It's the only way I could get the bigger picture. I'd be happy to share it if any other noobs like me might find it helpful.

Yes, please do, I sounds like a useful way to visualise it!

MoeSnodgrass

Quote from: Hopkins on September 26, 2012, 03:29:49 PM
most significant limitations: there is only one (stereo) input to the actual loop sampler.

I read this here in this or some other RC-300 thread here but now it comes into full perspective. Thank you.

Quote from: Hopkins on September 26, 2012, 03:29:49 PMA workaround to this has been proposed which takes advantage of the fact that it works in stereo, although I haven't actually got around to testing this myself: use the left and right inputs and pan certain loops hard left or hard right. 

I'll play with this sometime soon and report my experience.

Quote from: Hopkins on September 26, 2012, 03:29:49 PMOf course, this means that you will have to design mono guitar patches for the HD500, which might be slightly irritating.

Any mono device placed at the end of the signal path makes the path mono so that's pretty easy.

Quote from: Hopkins on September 26, 2012, 03:29:49 PMAt least you have an external box for the mic's phantom power, so you can plug it into a normal input.

Yes but, given the input routing limitations that you made clear, seems to me no real advantage unless one wanted to use two mics?

Quote from: Hopkins on September 26, 2012, 03:29:49 PM(By the way, there is a phantom power switch on the back by the XLR input.)

Thanks. I overlooked this switch completely. Expected it should be a software switch like on the VE-20.

I have a better understanding now and so can get to work to working around the known limitations.
So much to consider. Live pedal action is starting to seem overwhelming.

Thanks again

Hopkins

Quote from: MoeSnodgrass on September 26, 2012, 04:20:10 PM
Quote from: Hopkins on September 26, 2012, 03:29:49 PMAt least you have an external box for the mic's phantom power, so you can plug it into a normal input.
Yes but, given the input routing limitations that you made clear, seems to me no real advantage unless one wanted to use two mics?

I do not think it is possible to pan the mic input (or control the pan on any input), so if you want to try the left/right pan input routing hack then you need to use only the stereo inputs.  It would probably be best to use one channel from AUX and one from INST so that you can control the levels independently, but make sure that you only use one left and one right input!

Threeleggedyoyo

Welcome Moe! We are always glad to get more posters. More heads is better than one. :) I've been thankful for the discussion, too. It's a great place.

I am the author of the Stereo multi-out thread. It's really quite simple. I wrote if for the RC-50 but it should still apply for the 300. There is no need to pan anything. When in stereo mode, any jacks in the Right INS will come out of the Left and Right Out jacks automatically.

The AUX jack is a stereo input and will come out of both, unless you use a stereo splitter jack to split the signal to left and right. Then it behaves like above.

Your confusion about the MIC input is understandable. It is the only jack which can't do this. It must come out of both the Right and Left outputs no matter what. You could, however, convert the XLR to 1/4 and put it into one of the aforementioned jacks.

For a detailed breakdown, go here: (good stuff starts at post #3) https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=6864.0

About the panning - you COULD use it if you want to send specific phrases to various outs. But that's a different thing than the simplest solution.

It is true, though, that you will potentially lose stereo effects with this method (unless you are ok with the stereo effects coming out of different speaker setups). For me that's a non issue. Although I don't even do the stereo-multi out myself. Mono is king, baby. 8)

In other news... still wondering if the RC-300 can combine the MIDI OUT and THRU jacks? That is, send both the incoming and RC-300-generated midi info out of one jack. I'm guessing it can't and am investing in a MOTU unit for routing purposes anyway... would be nice to know.

Speaking of which if anyone is selling one cheap, I'm in the market.

Threeleggedyoyo

By the way, here is another enhancement request.

I wish the on-board drum machine could be programmed like a legit Midi drum machine. It's pretty much just a matter of software at this point. Some good sounds in there, too. Not a big deal since drum machines synch with it well, but it would make the accompaniment much more usable to begin with.

MoeSnodgrass

#73
33Lyo and Hopkins, thanks, you guys are saints.

I stopped at the audio store this eve after work to get an XLR to 1/4 mono converter so I could try out your suggestions. In my case I also needed to convert my low-impedance mic to high and found the Audio Technica CP8201 (250k to 50k) converter for $15. Guitar into Input > Inst R and the Mic into Input > Inst L and it was as simple as that. It would have taken me a long time to have figured this much out so thank you.

But 3Lyo, you offered so much more in your orignal thread that now it's seems like peeling back layers of an onion. I have the same Graph Tech piezo acoustic pickup saddles and preamp that ASlave mentioned in that same original post so next I'll ponder the possibilities for routing them (the output is a 1/4" TRS btw).

But for now, at least I can get some rehearsal time in; now that I have at least have guitar and vocals I can get to work and tweak the little stuff with less urgency.

For the benefit of others stumbling here wanting to use this solution for looping inst plus vocals, if you already have a good condenser mic (needs phantom power) you will need some kind of 9 volt battery phantom supply  a http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/403002-REG/Denecke_PS_1A_PS_1A_Portable_Single.html plus a low to high impedence/XLR to 1/4 adapter/converter.http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/68084-REG/Audio_Technica_CP8201_CP8201_Low_to.html
In my case I only needed the latter because I'm getting the phantom power from the Boss VE-20 vocal processor but I still needed to convert and adapt the mic (I just didn't need to power it).

Anyone buying a mic to use this way could probably get by with an $80 high impedance, dynamic mic, dynamic meaning needing no phantom power. If it was terminated out of the box at 1/4", so much the better, you would need neither a separate phantom power nor a converter or adapter. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/161804-REG/Shure_WH20QTR_WH20QTR_Headset_Mic_1_4.html

I'm still working on my mind map of the RC-300 editing hierarchy. Over the weekend I hope to devise a workflow with which I can edit just one phrase memory as a "template" and copy those phrase memory-level settings so that all other phrase memories would have those primary settings. For one example, I will want to be able to activate the GT+>Bass FX by way of a vacant pedal on my HD500 through a CC# (the identical pedal and CC# for every phrase memory). Then, in turn, I would just need to tweak each individual phrase memory slightly beyond those template settings. I'll post my findings next week as both PDF and VUE files. Since VUE is free, users could then tweak my map to use it to develop their own unique workflow.

Thanks again,
Moe

Threeleggedyoyo

Glad things are working for you Moe. Good post, good stuff.

While I'm smart at some things, at others I am not so smart. Is the impedance converter simply a matter of giving the mic more volume? If so, the AUX jack has its own volume control anyway, so that's another possible solution.