GP-10 - Saxophone. Maybe undoable?

Started by JiveTurkey, March 15, 2017, 07:29:32 AM

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JiveTurkey

I KNOW @Ainsoph has some killer sax and horns stuff. I have a number of them loaded and in use on my GP. They are absolutely steller.

I am curious to see if the possibility of a sax patch with some grit is a possibility? The sax stuff out there now is super sexy and great for Careless Whisper and Harden My Heart; things of that nature. If I want to do the sax solo on Urgent by Foreigner or something like (shudder) Bad to the Bone sax part; is this a possibility on the GP? Fast forward to 2:45 if you need an example of what I am talking about:



whippinpost91850

I've been looking for that kinda SAX sound for along time, and would love if someone came up with one on GR33, GR55, GP10 or FTP

ainsoph

Quote from: JiveTurkey on March 15, 2017, 07:29:32 AM
I KNOW @Ainsoph has some killer sax and horns stuff. I have a number of them loaded and in use on my GP. They are absolutely steller.

I am curious to see if the possibility of a sax patch with some grit is a possibility? The sax stuff out there now is super sexy and great for Careless Whisper and Harden My Heart; things of that nature. If I want to do the sax solo on Urgent by Foreigner or something like (shudder) Bad to the Bone sax part; is this a possibility on the GP? Fast forward to 2:45 if you need an example of what I am talking about:


we would need some additional effect in GP to come close to that sound , say kind of flutter and growl Fx ... GP is too limited to squeeze that out of it :)

JiveTurkey

Quote from: whippinpost91850 on March 15, 2017, 08:08:29 AM
I've been looking for that kinda SAX sound for along time, and would love if someone came up with one on GR33, GR55, GP10 or FTP
Tell me about it!

Quote from: ainsoph on March 15, 2017, 09:43:18 AM
we would need some additional effect in GP to come close to that sound , say kind of flutter and growl Fx ... GP is too limited to squeeze that out of it :)
Anything outboard that would work? I realize this type of tone is very dynamic and probably would be very difficult to faithfully replicate. Thanks for your 2 cents (well; probably $50 worth  ;D)

ainsoph

Quote from: JiveTurkey on March 15, 2017, 09:49:10 AM
Anything outboard that would work? I realize this type of tone is very dynamic and probably would be very difficult to faithfully replicate. Thanks for your 2 cents (well; probably $50 worth  ;D)

Yes you are right about dynamics , ... some "dirt" can be added , even scream-y feel with some VST effects , but only to the whole spectrum of sound so everything would sound fx-ed :)

Rhcole

Maybe you could work with the sax in the Mel9. It has a too much vibrato but it is certainly a sax sound.
It's the only 1/4" box I know of that can do it. Beyond that, you get into the GR-55, FTP, etc.

JiveTurkey

Quote from: Rhcole on March 15, 2017, 10:13:23 AM
Maybe you could work with the sax in the Mel9. It has a too much vibrato but it is certainly a sax sound.
It's the only 1/4" box I know of that can do it. Beyond that, you get into the GR-55, FTP, etc.
Yeah the Mel9 left me pretty unimpressed. Didn't like the voicings or usability across the entire fretboard. Seemed to work ok in like a 3 fret area and that was about it. For me at least.

JiveTurkey

Mods; please move if necessary. I didn't see the separate Patch Request subforum.

whippinpost91850

Anyone know of a good Hardware or software synth for this type of sax sound

JiveTurkey

Quote from: whippinpost91850 on March 15, 2017, 01:36:35 PM
Anyone know of a good Hardware or software synth for this type of sax sound
Seriously. I already can't play the keyboards let alone play the saxaphone  :'( ;D

chrish

Since you have the sy300, could the grit be added with a pitched noise osc and mixied in with the gp10 patch.

I believe that the sharpness control on the noise osc page when turned to 100 will cause the noise osc to track pitch as played.

JiveTurkey

Quote from: chrish on March 15, 2017, 07:36:21 PM
Since you have the sy300, could the grit be added with a pitched noise osc and mixied in with the gp10 patch.

I believe that the sharpness control on the noise osc page when turned to 100 will cause the noise osc to track pitch as played.
Interesting thought Chris. I was playing around with the pedal combination last night. I didn't get any further into saxaphone land, but with some reconfiguration of my cabling; I could make this doable.

Rhcole

Man, that's a lot of trouble to put together.

I wish somebody would make a pedal/patch/algorithm that simply added pieces of waveforms like keyboards have had for decades-
A "chuff" sound, a hollow "hoo", the front-end blat of a horn, like the vowel wahs you can buy but with waveforms to shape your sound.
With those resources and some good other boxes, you'd have an entire universe of tone-shaping possibilities.

chrish

#13
yea, good idea and should be part of the factory patches on the sy.

he'd have to maybe add a pick attack modulated distortion and modulate a bit of pitch with string dynamics. 

JiveTurkey

I am often out of my depth in synth knowledge here at VGF and this thread is a definite reminder of that  ;D I think Roland maybe needs to actually read the slips of paper that have fallen into their suggestion box over the years  :-X :o

chrish

#15
JT, When pcm based digital synths came out, many had partial samples that contained acoustic instrument attack transients, such as 'bowing' to add to string sounds or an 'ohh', 'ahh' or other vowels to add vocal sounds.

With those attack sounds you could build sounds that sounded more like the instrument that you were trying emulate or do stuff like add a piano key strike to a sitar, mix and match.

with analog synths, blowing attack transients are often created using a noise wave form  osc that is filtered and modulated to mimick the attack such as the initial reed growl from overblowing a sax.

But as rhc states, it's a lot of work and most people, including myself, will just use long samples of the actual instrument doing what ever technique that you are trying to emulate on that instrument.

one sample based (pcm) synth technique is to use velocity crossfades, so as you pick harder, the sample changes (mixes to) from a  sax blow sample to a sample of an overblown sax.

many folks will use breath controllers along with their keyboard or guitar and synth module in order to better mimick how a horn is attacked and modulated. 

the folks that are the master sound creaters will take elements of different sounds, that you or i would not even consider, mix them together and come up with a realistic acoustic instrument sound.


admin

QuoteWhen pcm based digital synths came out, many had partial samples that contained acoustic instrument attack transients, such as 'bowing' to add to string sounds or an 'ohh', 'ahh' or other vowels to add vocal sounds.

the GR-55 includes 910 different PCM wave snippets, including many "chiff, spit, air noises which can be used for building realistic brass instruments