Are ATG-1's guitar/pickup models affected by the type of guitar you are using?

Started by matizadomrb, February 07, 2017, 01:50:01 PM

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matizadomrb

Hey guys!

I'm in the market for a ATG-1 after having sold my Variax JTV-59. I absolutely love the concept of guitar/pickup modelling and actually think that Line6 did a great job with their models (specially the electrics, acoustics never really grew on me), but I'm convinced now that at least for me this is something that needs to be integrated into an external unit and not on the guitar itself. I actually tried all types of JTVs and gave the 59 a shot but I just didn't had "chemistry" with them.

Anyway, as I ready to take the plunge I've been trying to figure out if the sound of the guitar/pickup models is affected in any way by the characteristics of the actual guitar you are hooking up into the ATG-1 input (through a hex pickup). I've been searching on different forums for this info and even emailed Antares asking about this but haven't found an answer yet... Maybe there's no answer because it's just a silly thing to ask, but bear with me while I explain why I want to understand this.

Thing is, I own several types of guitars (Les Pauls, Strats, Teles, with solid, hollow, semihollow and even aluminium bodies, with fixed bridges, tremolo, floyd rose, bigsby, etc), that do have very different "acoustic" characteristics which I'm guessing hex pickups can capture (I have no experienced whatsoever with this type of pickups and know very little about their tech)... So I'm trying to understand if using let's say a solid body Strat with a tremolo versus a hollowed body Casino with a fixed bridge will affect in any perceivable manner the output sound of the guitar/pickup models on the ATG-1.

My goal with understanding this is to determine whether it makes sense to buy and install hex pickups on different types of guitars to use with the ATG-1 in order to take advantage of the difference in tonal characteristics when combined with the models, or if this is overkill because they'll all sound pretty much the same in which case the decision of what guitars I should put hex pickups on will be simply based on which one's I play the most.

Cheers!

admin

Hollow body guitars  are not recommended if you use the ATG-1 to the fullest , with its "Solid Tune and Alt Tuning, because the acoustic decibel level of the natural strings pitch will "fight" the ATG-1's DSP manipulated output pitch 

Lot s of gear does DSP rendered alt tunings (Boss Gp-10, GR-55, VG-99, Line-6 Variax, Tyler Variax, Roland G5 Strat,etc)

Big reason Line-6  never offered a ES-335 Variax.

matizadomrb

Thanks for the tip about the hollow bodies. It does make total sense for the Solid Tune and Alt Tunning features, which are certainly the most sought after functionalities on the ATG-1 (will make sure to limit myself to solid bodied guitars when using those).

But what about whether a signal captured by the hex pup on hollow body versus a solid body will affect the guitar/pickup models?... Will using a different type of guitar have any effect on the tone?

I think I read somewhere that part of the reason why Line6 decided to put their guitar models into their own guitars (instead of in a separate unit that could be used with any guitar), was because in order to successfully emulate the sound of the modelled guitars they needed total control over the source signal... Seems like some "predictability" is needed regarding the characteristics of that signal for the end result to be consistent (probably because thats the starting point upon which the models are built?), and since magnetic pups play no role here then I figure what they must be trying to control/neutralised are the specific acoustic characteristics that different types of guitars may have (due to body type, construction, hardware, maybe even the type of wood they're made of).

Pure speculation obviously... I have no clue what I'm talking about here!... Just trying to understand how this works!

admin

QuoteWill using a different type of guitar have any effect on the tone?

Despite rumors the the contrary, I find the underlying guitar, its fret job, its setup, its nut height  always play a big role in your tone with ALL DSP Guitar Modeling  / Guitar to MIDI / DSP Alt Tuning systems

matizadomrb

Quote from: admsustainiac on February 07, 2017, 03:28:21 PM
Despite rumors the the contrary, I find the underlying guitar, its fret job, its setup, its nut height  always play a big role in your tone

Completely agree man... But in this specific scenario of modelled guitar/pickups, will the characteristics of the guitar generating the signal affect the characteristics of the guitar being modelled?

Jeez this is like something out of the Inception movie... Dream within a dream, guitar within a guitar!... Feel like my brain is melting just thinking about it!  ;D

admin

QuoteBut in this specific scenario of modelled guitar/pickups, will the characteristics of the guitar generating the signal affect the characteristics of the guitar being modelled?

Yes - It does

matizadomrb

Quote from: admsustainiac on February 07, 2017, 04:22:07 PM
Yes - It does

In a perceivable enough gh manner to make it worth buying and installing hex pickups in different types of guitars?

Have you experienced yourself using different types of guitars through the ATG-1 and noticed differences on the the sound of the guitar/pickups models with each one? Which did you find more dramatic?

Elantric

Ive used all types with the  Antares system

I find the same Piezo hex PU vs magentic hex PU rules that apply to the VG-99, also applies to the Antares ATG-1



Read about them here:

Which one is better - Piezo or Magnetic hex PU?
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5043.0

matizadomrb

Thanks for confirming that Elantric! I imagined that was the case.

Cheers

Majiken

I don't have the ATG-1, but an installed luthier kit which uses the hex pickup vs. piezos.  I can't speak specifically to the Antares, but can confirm the hex/piezo differences as they pertain to GP-10 and GR-55 being addressed by a 1. Godin LGX-T with LR Baggs piezo bridge 2. PRS CE24 with GK3 externally installed 3. Electra MPC with Shadow hex mag (basically the same as GK3).  Each guitar has its specific scale length and as Elantric mentioned/insinuated, proper setup of both the hex or piezo system as well as standard guitar maintenance are critical performance factors.  I adapt my playing approach to each guitar, same as I would the differences between playing a Les Paul and a Strat, and I find I make instrument-specific presets with sometimes quite subtle differences on certain parameters to achieve (for my ears) roughly the same modeled sound- at least I think 99% of my listeners would hear no difference.  The trick for me is to make sure that I feel comfortable with the feel and the response on each instrument, which is definitely different- and if it doesn't feel natural to me it will affect my playing, which the audience WILL notice.

This element of course gets "amplified" when you mix the modeled sound with your regular pickups, which for me often provides the richest tone.
Take what you need, put back a bit more, leave the place behind you better than it was before :-)

www.majiken.rocks

vanceg

I have used Roland VG series (8, 88 and 99) with many different guitars and many different pickup systems (GK-2, GK-3, Graphtech Ghost, RMC and Cycfi NU and custom hex pickups).  I have used the ATG-1 with the GK-3 and the Cycfi Nu pickups.    I find that every single combination of pickup or guitar does make SOME difference in the the modeling.  Some some more "realistic" in their models than others. 
GENERALLY speaking, though, if you mount the magnetic pickup as close to the bridge as possible, and set the pickup distance and gain correctly, you can get a modeling system to sound very similar between instruments.  You will always hear SOME difference. 
Frankly, I really like these differences -  I make all I can of them just as I would when I'm playing a guitar without a modeling system on it. 

Right now, I'm most excited to experiment with how different magnetic hex pickups effect the sound of various modeling systems.  Similar concept.


GuitarBuilder

I find the difference to be most dramatic for acoustic guitar models; to my ear the piezo pickups provide a better input and more realistic sounding model output.
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973