Why tune guitar to non standard?

Started by Yohanes, October 12, 2015, 10:31:16 PM

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Yohanes

Hi Vguitarists,

I am playing guitar by learning partiture from popular musician songs, like Ain't Talking About Love (Van Halen), Every Breadth You Take (The Police), and many others that tuned down a semi tone. Why do they do that? To say that so it is easier to play, but wouldn't bassist, keyboardist  also prefer to play easier fingering? Or because they have to play as high as the vocalist can reach?

Thanks in advance for anyone who can shed me some light.
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mooncaine

Good question. I think E flat is an easier key for players of piano, or horns, or something like that, but I doubt that's the reason for the songs that you listed. I bet it's for the sake of the singer, for those tunes, or maybe some other reason entirely, like "oops, didn't realize it till it was too late to change it."

Elantric

#2
QuoteWhy tune guitar to non standard?

* to play Duane Allman / Bonnie Rait  / Sonny Landreth  / Lowell George / Ellmore James  Slide Guitar  (need Open E, Open G, Open D tuning )

* To play Led Zeps "Rain Song"

* To play Joni Mitchell cover tunes
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9044.msg65076#msg65076

I will add a bit of "lost history" from what i know

In my late teens I lived in a Chicago suburb, (Westmont, Illinois)  and on weekends i would travel downtown to the Kingston  Mines Coffee house for the open Blues Jam, with some genuine spirits  - bulk of the time the Piano player always preferred to play the I-IV-V  blues progression in the key of Eb - for a good reason

http://www.pianolessons.com/piano-lessons/e-flat-blues-scale.php

The Eb scale is a great scale to play really fast because the layout of the fingering makes it so easy to play.

and the black keys have lower mass than the white keys  = play really fast


And Horn players  love Eb
So upon arrival at many blues jams where horn players might be present,  first thing all the Guitars and Bass players did was tune to Eb, which had the benefit of making the strings easier to bend for blues solos.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E♭_tuning

QuoteThe guitar is usually played identically to standard tuning, resulting in a heavier tone without requiring the guitarist to learn different chords or fingering.

The tuning has a number of other features attractive to artists. It allows the use of heavier strings without decreasing playability. It can be used to accommodate a singer's vocal range. The tuning is also easier to play with a saxophone accompaniment (saxophones are usually tuned to B♭ or E♭). It can also be matched with the E♭ pentatonic minor scale formed by the black keys of a keyboard.

Blues legend Robert Johnson was one of the first to experiment with alternate guitar tunings such as E♭. Jimi Hendrix was also famous for tuning down a half-step and Stevie Ray Vaughan used it almost exclusively in his electric guitar playing, as did Slash of Guns N' Roses fame. The tuning remains very popular in rock and blues music, although some (like Pantera) tune down a quarter of a step.

Lots of R&B records are cut in Eb, and Jimi Hendrix cut his teeth playing with Isley Brothers who played with a Sax Player and many tunes in Eb.

Hendrix with the Isley Brothers 1964 - and see the Horn players in center stage in the band photo


And thats also why Stevie Ray Vaughan played in Eb  - because if a Piano player or Sax player sat in - (or vice versa) , all instruments could find common ground to play their fastest blues runs when all were at Eb

imerkat

I always thought it was easier to sing in B than C for Baritones which are the majority of males out there

MusicOverGear

okay i'll preface this by saying it does a poor job of informing the OP on the actual question for a quick solution type answer. this is just a topic that has been fascinating to me for decades

IMHO the two main universes of guitar tuning are as follows:

1) tuning for general music: tactile association is prime. the guitar is tuned consistently so that tones are produced with the same finger in every register of the instrument. e.g. in a moveable Do based solfege with La-based minor, Do might always fall under the middle finger. bass guitars are generally tuned in fourths regardless of the number of courses. any interval that can be bridged by the hand between strings could work this way; i imagine (but IDK) 4ths is standard because in first position that gives you one finger per fret with no movement or stretching (most people learning guitar seem to go through a phase where they think of the instrument as a machine - before eventually progressing to the understanding of the guitar as prosthesis)

2) tuning for ease and timbre of specifics. e.g. tuning "down a half step" with bigger strings gives you a cool sound on a strat and remains playable. e.g. the renaissance tuning system considered "standard" lends itself to all-courses barre chords that are ideal for un-amplified, gut-stringed instruments trying to match the volume of the human voice. e.g. specialized tunings like "drop d" are good for rote performances like classical transcriptions in which fingerings/voicings are worked out ahead of time

i played standard tuning for over 30 years and then switched to fourths. within two weeks the new tuning was much easier and music became more fluid and subconscious. for me personally a consistent tuning is demonstrably better

regarding timbre i can say that i've just recently jumped into the deep end of multi-scale; my first build was a 6-string with 24.5" to 25.5" scale using a steinberger bridge. it works great and the timbre is consistent over the whole range. and it actually means more now to play the same thing on different strings. e.g. that real jimi-y stratty sound playing pentatonic licks around position X to XII - moving to that part of the neck has more effect on the multi-scale guitar than on any normal strat i've had. not sure exactly why that is - IDK anything about the physics of it... anyway, point is you can actually get more vibey timbre out of a multiscale IMHO

point of all that is, on my own personal journey, moving to fourths tuning and multi-scale instrument has solved every problem that people are dealing with when they try different tunings. and if i want speciality tunings, e.g. a jimi patch ("Manic Depression" i think?) i uploaded to the GP-10 patch exchange, the Roland stuff can do that for me without interfering in my mental interface with the instrument. i.e. after decades of playing and trying really hard to solve all my problems, i'm finally home. viva v-guitar!

lespauled

Also tuning down could be due to the range and key that your singer sings in.

You'll see this a lot with some of the "reunion" concerts.  The singer can't hit the notes that they once could, so the whole song is dropped down a half, or a whole step. 

chrish

#6
When non standard tunings are mentioned, several artists come to mind. Richy Havens and Joni Mitchell. When i see video of Richy Havens, it appears that he used alternate tunings so he could use the same chord voicing and just slide it up and down the neck. He would wrap has thumb around the neck to play the bass notes or play them open string and then hammer his thumb down. Another artist that comes  to mind is Alex Degrassi (sp?). To me, his use of alt tunings sounded like complex wind chimey type sounds  where the open tuned  strings would ring out and sustain, which creates a pleasing effect on the acoustic guitar. One tune i've been working on for years is Pat Metheney's 'as witchata falls' as i call it to shorten the title. I wondered for years how the solo voice was created. At first i thought it was a plucked auto harp. Lyle Mays had one on his piano and i though he had constructed that solo. After much internet searching, it seems that Pat played that solo (makes sense) and he used a 'slack' guitar, which is a guitar tuned down so low that the strings become slack. That tuning creates a particular sound and has a very interesting effect. My desire is to play this piece as a duet with a percussionist. To do the solo (which is still being worked out) i tune the top 3 bass strings on the ibanez 8 string to G, A and F. This gives me the bass notes for the chord progression which the solo is played over so it's a simple matter to hit the open string bass note and have it sustain while the solo is being played. So i would say that i derived that technique from watching Richy Havens and his bass thumb open tuning (guitar tuned to a chord) technique.

szilard

Quote from: Elantric on October 12, 2015, 10:42:14 PM
In my late teens I lived in a Chicago suburb, (Westmont, Illinois)  and on weekends i would travel downtown to the Kingston  Mines Coffee house for the open Blues Jam, with some genuine spirits  - bulk of the time the Piano player always preferred to play in the key of Eb - for a good reason

http://www.pianolessons.com/piano-lessons/e-flat-blues-scale.php

The Eb scale is a great scale to play really fast because the layout of the fingering makes it so easy to play.

Thanks for posting that, it's interesting.

Muddy Waters lived in Westmont in the early-mid seventies and at the time Dave Bickler (lead singer in Jamestown Massacre and Survivor) lived down the street from him.

Elantric

#8
QuoteThanks for posting that, it's interesting.

Muddy Waters lived in Westmont in the early-mid seventies

Yes - He was in the local phone book as "Mckinley Morganfeld" and Westmont had a "Muddy Waters" day back in the late 1970's
(I lived in Darien, Illinois 1970-1976
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muddy_Waters
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-muddy-waters-estate-suit-met-20150415-story.html

GuitarBuilder

Tuning a half step down makes it easier to play heavier gauge strings (like SRV), 12-string guitars, and easier on the vocals.
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

neshel

#10
I recommend researching those bands to see perhaps why. Could be lots of things, many listed above. Ideally, a competent Art Music player is fluent and capable through the range of the instrument....something that isn't common in popcul.....perhaps largely because of 'styles' of music.

*I'm not fluent and capable through the range of the instrument because I'm more interested in the lower half of it. And I play only my own music, which is partly based in that element.


Quote from: lespauled on October 13, 2015, 10:19:03 AM
Also tuning down could be due to the range and key that your singer sings in.

You'll see this a lot with some of the "reunion" concerts.  The singer can't hit the notes that they once could, so the whole song is dropped down a half, or a whole step. 

Instead of singing down an octave, like Geddy should've been doing for the last twenty years or so.......  But yeah overall transposition seems a an oblique thing for the pop musician. It's like they think it's cheating....but okay if you're doing karaoke....

Yohanes

Thank you all for very interesting replies. I do a short research about "Every Breadth You Take" by The Police, although I can not find exact answer but according to Andy Summers in his interview he is not fond of using non standard tuning and the rumor is that the recorded tape of "Every Breadth You Take" has been slowed down for unknown reason so what we get is the song played in the key of A but sounded as A flat (guitar play in the key of A but all strings are tuned down a half step). A music book for beginners write the song in the key of G for easy playing (with simplified chords) and at least one DVD tutor teach the song in the key of A flat.

As a novice (and I only have one guitar until recently), I expect every book/DVD/teacher will teach me in the 'correct' and the same key so I can reuse the included CD tracks whenever it is available, because not all books/DVDs/teacher provide the backing tracks to practice and play along. But now although I haven't progress much in skill, I have some guitars and a Boss GP-10 (yes I should improve my skill not my gear).

Besides the odd things above, I would like to conclude (and maybe to try/experiment also for my guitar some time later) that:
1. Using extra heavier gauge strings need tuning down to makes it easier to play and get special timbre
2. After you are skillful enough, you won't be limited to standard, you will explore beyond normal and leave us mere novice to stuck with standard tuning and standard guitar.
3. I can't believe a pro guitarists cannot transpose his playing to cope with limited ability singer, except if the song or the riff is created with special tuning(like the Rolling Stones song: Honky Tonk Woman?) or extremely difficult like Yngwie Malmsteem songs? Or can he?
4. OK, pro guitarists may still want to play in their 'comfort zone' or favorite style, so they retune their guitar to match their liking like MusicOverGear said.

Special thanks to Elantric for sharing your experience about playing guitar with other musicians.

Now I can learn guitar again with much understanding if there are many version of keys for a song. I will research info for the original key intended for the song and see if I would like to learn it in different key.
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neshel

Pro just means they're getting paid, which is different from a studio musician. From what I know, any kind of studio musician will typically have some reading facility and such, else they'd find themselves in spots where they'd get replaced by someone who does.


Also, I forgot to mention this last time, the guitar's mature development was within the auspice of traditional tertian harmony, "...to provide a good compromise between simple fingering for many chords and the ability to play common scales with reasonable left-hand movement." (Wiki)  It's not surprising alternate playing and voicing styles would benefit from, if not require, alternate tuning. I don't know as there's a remarkable difference in timbre, especially in a mix, that can't be at least closely arrived at through eq and such.

Elantric

#13
QuotePro just means they're getting paid, which is different from a studio musician.

In many towns - the studio musicians are required to be members of the local AFL-CIO teamsters union, and indeed get paid for their work - particularly if they are performing on music for commercial release. In LA, New York, Nashville - the the local  AFL-CIO teamsters union  distributes the paycheck to the studio musicians.
They have gone on strike on occasion.

https://www.afm47.org/press/strike-sanctions-filed-against-cinema-scoring-cmg-peter-rotter-music-services/

http://www.afm47.org/
http://www.afm47.org/history.html

There is a whole culture of non standard guitar tuning - its the only way to accomplish performing this style of music


neshel

Interestingly, I tend to think of that kind of music as Incidental. Great for film scores and such. Mainly because of it's lack of  harmonic development. I love ambient music, but not really from any kind of folk perspective. I can see where Andy Mckee may've gotten some inspiration, though.

Wouldn't be possible by himself, yeah. I don't see that as remarkable. Doesn't matter how many people are playing the music - although the music might require more than one player, that's called orchestration, or just idiom: for example some piano works do not sound right as orchestral arrangements, and vice-versa.

For some reason, I never thought of pop instruments as being in the realm of the union. Never heard about it, but I guess it's just that I don't take them seriously as I do instruments of the Western Tradition.

Elantric

#15
QuoteInterestingly, I tend to think of that kind of music as Incidental. Great for film scores and such. Mainly because of it's lack of  harmonic development. I love ambient music, but not really from any kind of folk perspective. I can see where Andy Mckee may've gotten some inspiration, though.

Wouldn't be possible by himself, yeah. I don't see that as remarkable. Doesn't matter how many people are playing the music - although the music might require more than one player, that's called orchestration, or just idiom: for example some piano works do not sound right as orchestral arrangements, and vice-versa.

For some reason, I never thought of pop instruments as being in the realm of the union. Never heard about it, but I guess it's just that I don't take them seriously as I do instruments of the Western Tradition.
. . .
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=15451.msg110363#msg110363
I started in metal, rhythm playing. Then I studied music, my ear changed a lot, and I started imagining sounds that 'pushed' like a high gain tone, but that had no hair. More like a French or English horn - with a soft bell in the attack.







Tommy Tedesco (far left) ( LA Session Guitarist / musician) told me in 1980
"There's no money above the 5th fret"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Tedesco
QuoteBorn in Niagara Falls, New York, Tedesco made his way to the U.S. West Coast where he became one of the most-sought-after studio guitarists between the 1960s and 1980s.[1] Although Tedesco was primarily a guitar player, he also played the mandolin, ukulele, and the sitar as well as 28 other stringed instruments (though he played all of them in guitar tuning).

Tedesco was described by Guitar Player magazine as the most recorded guitarist in history, having played on thousands of recordings, many of which were top-20 hits.[3] He recorded with most of the top musicians working in the Los Angeles area including the Beach Boys, the Mamas & the Papas, the Everly Brothers, the Association, Barbra Streisand, Jan and Dean, the 5th Dimension, Elvis Presley, Sam Cooke, Ella Fitzgerald, Frank Zappa, Ricky Nelson, Cher, and Nancy and Frank Sinatra as well as on Richard Harris's classic "MacArthur Park". His playing can be found on Jack Nitzsche's "The Lonely Surfer", on Wayne Newton's version of "Danke Schoen", B. Bumble and the Stingers's "Nut Rocker", the Rip Chords' "Hey Little Cobra", the Ronettes' "Be My Baby", the Sandpipers' "Guantanamera", the T-Bones' "No Matter What Shape'" and Nino Tempo & April Stevens' version of "Deep Purple". For Guitar Player, Tedesco wrote a regular column called "Studio Log" in which he would describe a day's work recording a movie, TV show or album, the special challenges each job posed and how he solved them, what instruments he used, and how much money he made on the job.[1]

Tedesco also performed for film soundtracks such as The French Connection, The Godfather, Jaws, The Deer Hunter, Field of Dreams, plus several Elvis Presley films. He was also the guitarist for the Original Roxy cast of The Rocky Horror Show. Additionally, he performed the opening guitar solo for the Howard Hawkes and John Wayne film Rio Lobo. He was one of the very few sidemen credited for work on animated cartoons for the The Ant and the Aardvark cartoons (1968–1971).

On his own, Tedesco recorded a number of jazz guitar albums, but his musical career ended in 1992 when he suffered a stroke that resulted in partial paralysis. The following year he published his autobiography, Confessions of a Guitar Player.[1]

Tedesco died of lung cancer in 1997, at the age of 67, in Northridge, California.[4] His son, Denny Tedesco, directed the 2008 documentary film The Wrecking Crew, which features interviews with Tommy and many of his fellow session musicians. The film finally saw theatrical release in 2015, after musical rights were cleared; before that it had been screened only at film festivals, where clearance rights were not required.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wrecking_Crew_(music)

--
The Wrecking Crew (music)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
For the documentary film based on these musicians, see The Wrecking Crew (2008 film).

This article needs additional citations for verification. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (August 2015)
"The Wrecking Crew"
Also known as   
"The First Call Gang"
The Phil Spector Wall of Sound Orchestra
"The Clique"
Origin   Los Angeles, California
Genres   Pop, rock
Years active   1960s–1970s
Past members   See below
"The Wrecking Crew" was a nickname coined by drummer Hal Blaine for a collective of studio and session musicians that played anonymously on many records in Los Angeles, California during the 1960s. The crew backed dozens of popular singers, and were one of the most successful groups of studio musicians in music history.[1][2] They were occasionally featured on productions by Phil Spector under the name the Phil Spector Wall of Sound Orchestra.[3] Other names such as "the Clique" and "the First Call Gang" have been attributed to the band.

Two of their members, drummers Hal Blaine and Earl Palmer, were among the inaugural "sidemen" inductees to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 2000, while the entire Wrecking Crew was inducted into the Musicians Hall of Fame in 2007.[4][5][6] In 2008, they were the subject of the documentary of the same name.

Contents  [hide]
1 Name
2 History
2.1 Post-1960s
3 Legacy
4 Members
5 Selected recordings
6 See also
7 References
8 Bibliography
9 External links
Name[edit]
According to Hal Blaine, the name "the Wrecking Crew" was derived from the impression that he and the younger studio musicians made on the business's older generation, who felt that they were going to wreck the music industry. Prior to that, in the late 1950s, the small group headed by Ray Pohlman was often referred to as "the First Call Gang," since they were the musicians many record producers would call first. With home base being Hollywood's "General Service Studios", this early group consisted of talented musicians such as Earl Palmer, Mel Pollen, Bill Aken, Barney Kessel, and Al Casey.[citation needed]

Blaine's account and even the "Wrecking Crew" name is strongly disputed by Carol Kaye, who has stated in interviews, "We were never known as that. Sometimes we were called the Clique, but that's a Hal Blaine invented name for his own self promotion in 1990, and most of us are really, really angry about that film, too." Research by Songfacts concurs, noting "We couldn't find any references to "The Wrecking Crew" in any publications from the era."[7] In reference to accusations from Kaye that Blaine invented the moniker to sell his book, Blaine denied that anyone had ever heard the name "the Clique".[8]

History[edit]
The Wrecking Crew's members were musically versatile but typically had formal backgrounds in jazz or classical music. The talents of this group of "first call" players were used on almost every style of recording including television theme songs, film scores, advertising jingles and almost every genre of American popular music from the Monkees to Bing Crosby. Notable artists employing the Wrecking Crew's talents included: Nancy Sinatra, Bobby Vee, the Partridge Family (group), David Cassidy (solo), Jan & Dean, the Mamas & the Papas, the 5th Dimension, the Association, the Carpenters, Glen Campbell, Cher, John Denver, the Beach Boys, Simon & Garfunkel, and the Grass Roots[9] and Nat King Cole.

The record producers most often associated with the Wrecking Crew are: Phil Spector, who used the Crew to create his trademark "Wall of Sound"; and Beach Boys member and songwriter Brian Wilson, who used the Crew's talents on many of his mid-1960s productions including the songs "Good Vibrations", "California Girls", Pet Sounds, and the original recordings for Smile. Members of the Wrecking Crew played on the first Byrds single recording, "Mr. Tambourine Man", because, with the exception of Roger McGuinn, Columbia Records—namely, producer Terry Melcher—did not trust the musical competency of the band's members.[10] Spector used the Wrecking Crew on Leonard Cohen's fifth album, Death of a Ladies' Man.

Al Casey worked for many years as a session musician. Jim Gordon also drummed on many well known recording sessions and was the drummer in the group Derek and the Dominos. Gordon also toured with Frank Zappa on the Grand Wazoo tour with Jay Migliori. Ray Pohlman doubled on both bass and guitar, and started heading sessions in the 1950s with a regular group of musicians including, Mel Pollen, Earl Palmer, Bill Aken (aka Zane Ashton), Al Casey, and others. Pohlman would also become the musical director for the TV show Shindig!, while Aken became musical director on Shock Theater, both shows being nationally televised. Aken was the musical director on the critically acclaimed syndicated radio show "The Country Call Line" in the mid-1980s and also conceived, arranged, and produced the music for the very first 'Farm-Aid' radio special in collaboration with Willie Nelson and LeRoy Van Dyke.

The crew worked long hours and 15-hour days were not unusual, although the rewards were great—Carol Kaye has commented that during her peak as a session musician, she earned more per year than the President.[citation needed]

The Wrecking Crew, or at least part of it, was the house band for 1964's The T.A.M.I. Show. During shots of the right side of the stage, one can often spot musical director Jack Nitzsche, drummer Hal Blaine, bassist Jimmy Bond, guitarists Tommy Tedesco, Bill Aken, and Glen Campbell, upright bassist Lyle Ritz, pianist Leon Russell, saxophonist Plas Johnson, and others.[original research?]

Post-1960s[edit]
Glen Campbell later achieved solo fame as a singer-guitarist in the late 1960s and 1970s, and Leon Russell and Mac Rebennack (as Dr. John) both went on to be successful songwriters and had hit singles and albums. Also, Nino Tempo with his sister Carol (under her stage name April Stevens) had a U.S. #1 hit song in 1963, "Deep Purple and drummer Hal Blaine, who has played on tens of thousands of recording sessions, including Sinatra's, and is believed by some to be the most recorded drummer in history. Among his vast list of recordings, Blaine is credited with having played on at least forty U.S. #1 hits and more than 150 Top Ten records.

Jim Keltner would go on to a successful career as a session drummer for much of the 1970s–90s, playing with Ringo Starr's All-Starr band, and playing drums on both albums by the supergroup Traveling Wilburys, (where he is credited as "Buster Sidebury.")[citation needed]

Legacy[edit]
In 2008, the Wrecking Crew were featured in the documentary film The Wrecking Crew directed by Tommy Tedesco's son, Denny Tedesco.Template:Citation needed/ but would be redundant since the citation would be the documentary film "The Wrecking Crew" directed by Tommy Tedesco's son, Denny Tedesco... In 2014, its musicians were depicted in the Brian Wilson biopic Love & Mercy.[11]

neshel

I don't see where you're coming from with any of that.

Elantric

#17
Quote

1) Everyone is welcome to their own opinion;
2) Wrecking Crew = union studio musicians on influential POP hits

Bingo

Posted as a reaction to:

Quote
For some reason, I never thought of pop instruments as being in the realm of the union. Never heard about it, but I guess it's just that I don't take them seriously as I do instruments of the Western Tradition.

neshel

Nothing to react to. I expressed my thoughts, actually a revelation somewhat to myself. But people often respond to things they feel are in some way threatening....whether they functionally are....but then the line can be turnt back: if everyone has a perspective, then there's nothing to say about anyone's.

chrish

#19
Also we humans tend to interpret(miss-interpret) the words or opinions of others according to our own bias. While all humans are born (some exceptions apply) with the same emotional tools to work with, we are all unique in how we percieve the world. That is actually our greatest strenght but we often turn it into our greatest weakness. We evolved to work co-operativey but our tribal biases (prejudice) works against us. Every group thinks their way is the correct way to the exclussion of other's ideas. We even seek out groups that share our beliefs to confirm that our ideals are correct. I try to follow the idea (concept) of 'perpetual change'. When a new idea (supported by evidence and shaped by ethical consideration) comes along that is better than the one i'm trying  to cling to, i try to be open to change.

Yohanes

I just realize that guitar world is not just classical guitar player and pop/rock/jazz/blues guitarist. There are so many kind of guitarist out there, from Elantric's Michael Hedges example to microtonal guitar (they have many small frets between the normal frets) and so many more you can find in Youtube that is not normal (or should I say standard?) guitar.

Well, for our consensus, if we mention guitar, it means guitar with 6 (or 7) strings played by popular musician, right? Or is there any member here play their guitar uncommonly so if I want to learn it, I have to follow some specific instruction or borrow your guitar?

OK, just kidding, please ignore this  :)
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neshel

#21
@Yohanes: that reminds me of a microtonal guitar I saw in the last couple years, where the frets under each sting are movable, pretty much on the fly. I was seriously interested in fretless guitar a few years ago, but even with a stainless or fiberglass fretboard, the sustain isn't normal, and the tone is still weird. (I don't care for middle eastern music (Debussey and Ravel were just what was needed to make modal music cool), and I come more from the LeJaren Hiller camp of even tempered microtones, which allows harmonic function.)


@chrish: I think the greatest, the only real, challenge is to aspire to infinite emotional open-ness, and autonomy. Within the auspice of this, there is no belief (and hence no morality). There are feeling, and sensibility. This is a neutral tool set.

ConstruKction

Since I started studying New Standard Tuning on my own, I realized that "standard tuning" is fairly arbitrary, and while it has some advantages in regularity of intervals, it doesn't need to be held sacred.

Then again, imagine someone growing up with New Standard Tuning thinking exactly the opposite.

Many guitarist friends of mine are extremely opposed to tuning the guitar in anything non-standard, with the exception of occasional dropping. But to be honest, that's not really what I'd call a non-standard tuning, as you're still keeping the typical core structure of a standard tuning (ascending perfect fourths, with an exception between 3rd and 2nd string, which is a major third).

Actually, I don't think your question can be answered. Perhaps it's meant to be unanswered. (I hope I make sense! ;D)

DreamTheory

Sometimes changing the tuning is just a jump start for inspiration. There are tons of open tuning patches in the patch exchange on this forum- I highly recommend trying them out. And the "baritoned" patch on GR 55 should get you going immediately if you are feeling moody. Joni Mitchell loved "chords of inquiry" - chords that are unresolved, complex sounding. Note that she also used simple fingering techniques and eschewed writing out the notes- varied tunings make you sound hip with little effort or theoretical analysis needed. It makes it easy to play bass notes. You get more overtones and drone strings. And you throw off/create interest for any guitarists who are watching you.
electric: Epiphone Dot semihollow body, acoustic: mahogany jumbo, recording: Cubase Artist 11 or Tascam DP008

maxdaddy

regarding:
Quote"standard tuning" is fairly arbitrary

Not really... standard tuning is actually a brilliant design. It provides us with the most three-fingered major chords in the open position of any other tuning possibility. That's important because a chord that is formed with three fingers in the open position is 'portable' and can be moved up the neck with the fourth finger replacing the nut.

Alternate tunings can be fun, but guitarists should really appreciate the standard tuning for what it provides. It is one of the reasons why the guitar 'won' over many of the other stringed instruments through history (lute, banjo, gittern, cittern, etc...) and has become the dominant stringed instrument.

Author Bill Edwards devoted the first book in his 'Fretboard Logic' series to The Reasoning Behind the Guitar's Unique Tuning System: http://www.billedwards.com/7001.html.