FTP as a midi controller in Cubase

Started by w1awb, February 07, 2014, 05:37:56 AM

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w1awb

I am a composer for documentaries and theater productions, an excellent guitarist and an absolutely suck bad keyboard player so the FTP looked like a prayer answered. I'm running all sorts of VSTis...everything from VSL and Spitfire samples to Omnisphere and Iris.

I just got FTP the other day and I've been reading everything I can find but most of it seems geared to live performance instead of working in a DAW. I hope you guys can help me with some setup questions.

FTP tracks beautifully but depending on the VSTi, the string bending feature can be problematic. No luck with VSL and Kontakt instruments sometimes work and sometimes not. (And yes...I have seen and used the info on setting up the pitchbend modulation slot in Kontakt.)

What is a good default setting for running in a DAW? Should I have one patch for string bending? (expressive strings etc) and a non string bending (trigger)? The FAQ by the FTP designer basically says never to use trigger and always use the MONO setting. This concept is not working great for me.

Also when I try to use the Two Channel method recommended here, all the controller settings are grayed out and it says "Receiver not found" ...what am I doing wrong?

How do you use the MONO setting in a DAW? It seems to work great in the FTP software with six instances of whatever in Kontakt but when I try it in CUBASE I get all six strings still working on ONE instance, just like with POLY. I'm stumped...

Sorry for the newbie questions...I've read stuff until I'm cross eyed and still can't figure it out. Any help would be much appreciated.

Andy B

shawnb

#1
Cubase users here have reported good results.  I'm a SONAR user, not a Cubase user, but hopefully I can get you pointed in the right direction & give you some things to look into. 

Quote from: w1awb on February 07, 2014, 05:37:56 AM
FTP tracks beautifully but depending on the VSTi, the string bending feature can be problematic. No luck with VSL and Kontakt instruments sometimes work and sometimes not. (And yes...I have seen and used the info on setting up the pitchbend modulation slot in Kontakt.)
For each VSTi, you really need to find the 'pitch bend range' setting or PBR.  The synth's PBR must be aligned with the PBR you have selected on the FTP.  If you have 6 instances of your VSTi, then you must ensure that all 6 have the PBRs aligned with your FTP.  Most VSTis are assuming keyboard input, and default to a PBR of 2.   A PBR of 12 or 24 makes more sense for a MIDI guitar, because it's very easy to bend a string (or do a hammer-on, or use a slide, or use a whammy bar) that exceeds 2 semitones. 

In Kontakt, you're looking for the box titled "PB Range", under Options, and there will be two dials, one for down and one for up.  You need BOTH of those set to match your FTP.  Some voices, like pianos, assume you're going to go chromatic, no PBs, so they bury the setting a couple of layers down.  If you don't see "PB Range", keep pressing buttons that say "Options" until you see it... 

Quote from: w1awb on February 07, 2014, 05:37:56 AM
What is a good default setting for running in a DAW? Should I have one patch for string bending? (expressive strings etc) and a non string bending (trigger)?
This is completely up to you.   If you need both, set up both. 

Do you want MONO (1 channel per string, more like a GUITAR) or POLY (all 6 strings on one channel, more like a KEYBOARD) performance?  If you want MONO, do you want them all processed the same, or do you want different processing for each string/channel?  Are you going to have a mix of MONO and POLY usage in your same song?   

There is a LOT we could get into here, including discussions of what OMNI means & what a MULTI patch is on your VSTI, etc.  But, in general, you should only really need to setup 6 tracks in your DAW if you want MONO processing ***AND*** you want to vary processing in some way per string/channel.   Under most circumstances, you will only need one track per synth in your DAW (and yes, this assumes your VSTi supports a MULTI mode). 

Quote from: w1awb on February 07, 2014, 05:37:56 AMThe FAQ by the FTP designer basically says never to use trigger and always use the MONO setting. This concept is not working great for me.
I'm not aware of any FAQ that says this...   Whether or not you want to use MONO is up to your needs, and whether you want to use trigger is up to your needs.  That said, you should be able to configure a trigger/MONO synth in your DAW.

Quote from: w1awb on February 07, 2014, 05:37:56 AMAlso when I try to use the Two Channel method recommended here, all the controller settings are grayed out and it says "Receiver not found" ...what am I doing wrong?
Hard to tell...  Let's start with the basics...  First, make sure your controller is fully charged, and that the receiver's LED is a solid red...   Also, I've found that sometimes you get a 'Controller not found' if you don't have an output audio channel setup.  (Even though it's not used...)   Just set it up and see if that fixes anything.

Quote from: w1awb on February 07, 2014, 05:37:56 AM
How do you use the MONO setting in a DAW? It seems to work great in the FTP software with six instances of whatever in Kontakt but when I try it in CUBASE I get all six strings still working on ONE instance, just like with POLY. I'm stumped...
Buried in the manual is the fact that MONO/POLY is actually a global setting, and that the ONLY setting that is honored is the one on synth1 in the very first user patch...  So, make sure that you are using the patch#1, synth#1 setting to make the MONO/POLY setting. 

Also, in Kontakt, make sure you select (or create) a MULTI patch. 

Hope this helps,

Shawn
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

w1awb

Thanks a lot for the info, Shawn. This is extremely helpful. I'll try some of this stuff and get back to you.

I think the mistake I was making in MONO mode was that I was trying to use one channel and setting up 6 instances of whatever instrument in one instance of Kontakt instead of 6 channels of Cubase. I'll try this.

I'll see if I can track down that FAQ from the FTP inventor. It was interesting reading.

Thanks again!

Andy B

shawnb

#3
No problem, glad to help!

Quote from: w1awb on February 07, 2014, 11:13:48 AM
I think the mistake I was making in MONO mode was that I was trying to use one channel and setting up 6 instances of whatever instrument in one instance of Kontakt instead of 6 channels of Cubase. I'll try this.

You should be able to a 6-channel MONO set up on one track.  As I noted earlier, you should only need to setup 6 tracks in Cubase if you really want each to be processed separately in Cubase somehow.   

To do MONO in one Cubase track, you need to (1) make sure your MIDI input is OMNI, (2) make 6 instances of your instrument in Kontakt's Multi-rack, each using a unique channel from 1-6, and (3) make sure the PBR is set for both UP and DOWN on each of the 6 instances. 

Easier to show than explain, graphic attached.  The example is in SONAR (I don't have Cubase) but I'm sure Cubase offers the same basic features. 

BTW, this graphic is a pic of one of the FTP-supplied presets for Kontakt, I didn't change a thing, you should be able to navigate to it in Kontakt. 

Hope this helps,

Shawn
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

w1awb

Partial victory.

You know, I got it working perfectly in Protools 11 and Live 9!

But Cubase (which is relatively new to me) defeats me. It just acts like FTP is in POLY mode no matter what I do. Annoying and doubtless my fault. I'm bound to be missing some setting in Cubase. Or maybe it has to do with how Kontakt interacts with Cubase...I don't know.

I get Kontakt set up with a violin patch on channel 1 and I'm in mono mode.

In Live 9 or Protools it will then play from my high E string only (until I add modules for the other 5 strings which then work as expected).

In Cubase the damn thing will play the entire range of the instrument from channel 1 and the tracking is weird. Maddening.

Thanks again for all your help. You cleared a lot of stuff up for me. Now if I could just figure out this ONE thing!

Andy B

Andy B

w1awb

Solved! I believe it was a tiny check box to uncheck on the device setup page in Cubase. Bout drove me nuts...

shawnb

Quote from: w1awb on February 08, 2014, 06:50:45 AM
Solved! I believe it was a tiny check box to uncheck on the device setup page in Cubase. Bout drove me nuts...

Please share which checkbox!   It will certainly help others.
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

w1awb

Ok. Make sure in the Inspector panel for your instrument track the channel selector is set to "any" instead of 1 which is the default.

In the Device Setup menu go to Midi Port Setup and on the far right of the entry for Fishman Triple Play uncheck the box for "in all midi". Make sure to leave "active" as is (it should say "active").

Anyway...that's what I did and it now works in Cubase..... but who knows...

You guys have done a very cool thing with all this FTP info on this forum. I would have been marooned at sea without it. Thanks!

Andy B







Quote from: shawnb on February 08, 2014, 07:11:52 AM
Please share which checkbox!   It will certainly help others.

bizjer

Not sure if you ever sussed this out but what you need is as follows.
1 set up six midi tracks from FTP and number them 1-6.
2 on each track open up the Input Transformer for each track. Its the little arrow icon with a tail under the "e" tab on each track.
3 In the drop down select local
4 go to the bottom and in "Presets" select Channel Filtering and then the appropriate number for the Channel i.e Ch1 filters Ch1 and so on.

You will now have six instances each only tracking the designated string.

Hope this helps