TC Helicon Voicelive3

Started by BackDAWman, February 05, 2014, 01:27:22 PM

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musicman65

Just ordered mine from Sweetwater. They are on sale for 699 this weekend.

I am upgrading from a Digitech Vocalist 4 and my main reason is to have MIDI PC control from my VG99. I intend to have a vocal patch in the VL3 that corresponds to each VG99 patch so I don't have to think about the settings for my vocal effects.

Based on my research, the VL4  is the only vocal effects device with features for live guitarist use in a working band. Other TC Helicon devices have midi but lack the number of patches and stored loop time that I want.

The looper interest me for use in triggering prerecorded intros so the looper bug doesn't really bother me. I'm not a live looper.

BTW...I had to go to the web to post this. Tapatalk won't post to this thread. It shows the thread as being in a "null" forum area.

supernicd

Let us know what you think, and how well it integrates with the VG-99. I have the VL2 and really like it for studio use. I've tried it on stage a few times and thought it worked well, but not needed so much in my current band with 4 vocalists.
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

Vade

Their newest firmware build passed out of beta on May 21st and it seems to have greatly improved the looper. I pulled the trigger on a used one from Ebay today for $550 and should have it in a week.

http://support.tc-helicon.com/entries/65635093-Voicelive-3-Firmware-Update-1-0-20-build-120-Available-on-VoiceSupport
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

musicman65

Thanks Vade. Mine arrives this Thursday and I have gigs Friday and Saturday with different bands. I will probably just program it to have the same 22 patches my Vocalist 4 now has and run it manually. MIDI integration will take some planning. I hope its intuitive and easy to program or I'll be up all night!

Neardark72

Can't wait to hear news from You guys on this one.
This product is on my radar for two months now, just waiting to see if the looper is fixed and i might have a few questions Then.

Toff.

#55
I am a proud owner of one and wanted to share my experience with you.
I have enjoyed this community's help beyond expectations, and while I do not manifest too often I do read you guys a lot.

I really wanted to talk about this new unit ever since it was mentioned here but was also keen to wait until I actually had proper feedback and live experience with the unit myself.

In addition, users (including me) were waiting for the latest update, that correct looper glitches and adds a few features.
Craig, from TC-Helicon, posted it during the beta test and I snatched it straight away ^^
It is now officially available through the "official" channel (ie. the VoiceSupport software).

As an introduction to this report, I got mine a month ago, to replace my 3 years old Digitech Vocalist 5 (http://vocalistpro.com/en-US), a great gear in general, but too "stand alone" (aka: no MIDI, limited customisation of patches, no user patch exchange, supports only 1 expression pedal ...).

FYI, the Digitech unit was around AU$700,00 3 years ago and still has a decent resell value, while the VoiceLive 3 can be found AU$890,00 in (good) shops.

Disclaimer
If anything, I did not get this unit for the Guitar layer. Mostly for the Vocal one, the Looper and using it to drive other devices via MIDI.

I have a Roland GR-55 coupled with a nylon string Godin guitar (which limits my use of the non-clean tones anyway) and am perfectly happy with what the Roland unit can do, especially with open-tunings and playing specific instruments on some strings only (I do A LOT of walking bass + jazz/funk rhythmic chords), which the VoiceLive 3 cannot manage.
It is a nice guitar processor, but the GR-55's PCM + COSM with GK support puts it in a stronger category.

I plan to use the Guitar layer when performing pure acoustic gigs, or during travel. I'll EDIT the thread accordingly then.

I have used the VL3 for 1 month so far and do not have too many bad things to say about it.
It is now very close to what I wanted it for:


1. Decent harmonies for my live vocals.

As a frontman (singer/guitarist) in live shows and wedding bands, the vocals are a very important part of my repertoire.

a/
The Digitech Vocalist 5 is great and easy for adding harmonies, but it is limited in the customisation of each patch and their control in a live environment.
It only has 2 (A/B) group of settings per patch, which is often not enough depending on the requirements of a song, meaning I end up dancing between too many patches and remembering their exact location.

The VL3, on the other hand, not only has the A/B settings (called "HIT") but also the STEP approach which allows me to prepare variants of a preset within the same patch and move through them gradually (BTW, it works for the vocal layer as well as the guitar one).

b/
Also, the Vocalist is limited to what it can listen to in order to generate the harmonies. It requires a clean "untouched" guitar sound for their "MusIQ" technology to work its magic at the best. This forces me to connect my guitar to both the GR-55 (13 pin cable) and the Vocalist (standard jack).
I can forget about harmonising on open-tunings from the GR-55 since the Digitech cannot "hear" them and the resulting harmonies are out of key.

While the VL3's "Natplay" technology also works out the harmonies via a guitar input, it can also use whatever you feed the AUX IN, the MIDI it receives or even the room ambience (if you turn on the unit's room mic).
This means I now can enjoy harmonies based on the open tunings from the GR-55 (connected via UAX IN), and I rarely use a capo any more.
One less mono jack in!

(small) Shame that the AUX IN is a mini jack. Not that it matters a lot, but less professional - Would have appreciated a L/R inputs pair, but understand it is meant more for iPods / incoming music from a player.

c/
The VL3 brings more customisation and external control on what I can do and adds stuff like a vocoder effect, the synth (using a wave rather than the voice, giving a allowing  me to simulate a synth solo while singing) and rhythm effects (stutter ...) as well as radio/megaphone/talkbox sims.

d/
While the beast has nearly everything I need, I still struggle with some limitations.
I would of course love more control via footswitch. Be aware that not everything can be manageable live using your feet and there will definitely be songs requiring preparation and specific planning. Since most of my work is improvised, it is important.
Not a fully improvise-proof box but definitely one of the best on the market for it.

Also, while there are heaps of reverbs, they seem to always be either too weak or too big - Not sure if it is my personal preference here or whether I should just spend more time with the unit and explore (RTFM, which is actually a fun one to read, with links to user's blogs and references - very "community" minded).

e/
I also definitely felt a difference in the harmonies produced vs the Vocalist ones.

While they are still very good, I noticed the 5th (for example) is not reacting as was expected. I spent an entire day playing both side by side, as I was transferring all my presets from the old unit into the new one. I was stumped at the difference in rendering a simple 3+5 harmony (high + higher) on some chords.
The Vocalist seems to render them in a more "natural" way.

f/
The hardtune, which I use to help producing a realistic mouth-trumpet sound for some solos in my Jazz improv. band, is easily disturbed into not playing some minors that would still be part of the chord, I had to move the window parameter from 600ms to 10ms to stop this, but it of course renders the correction less effective and noticeable.

Then again, for the 2 points above, I need to spend more time with the VL3, and I am confident I will find answers through their support and forums.
I'll record an example of the variations and will post them for Craig to review on the official forum.

For instance, while on the matter of the hardtune:
http://support.tc-helicon.com/entries/23131328-HardTune-How-Does-It-Work-
http://support.tc-helicon.com/entries/41580283-VoiceLive-3-How-do-you-use-the-HardTune-parameters


2. Extending my live (foot) control of the GR-55.

a/
I wanted to get an additional midi pedal board to use with the Roland synth for a while, and there are many threads here about finding the perfect piece of equipment.
But I dreaded the additional footprint in an already heavy and large pedal board (currently totally filling up my huge Pedaltrain Pro).

Replacing the Vocalist with the VL3 allowed me to drive the GR-55 from the Guitar layer of the VL3 (since I am not using it for guitar sounds (but could, there is room for it)) using the GR-55's assigns and CC messages supported by the VL3.

Beware: Not all CC's are available, and some buttons from the VL3 cannot be mapped to the GR-55 (because of the latter's limitations).
I am going to try and map these, but this is new territory for me and I will take it slowly and ask the great people here :)

b/
An annoying limitation is the fact it does not have a MIDI thru port. So, while it can talk to the GR-55 via the MIDI out, I cannot send the VL3 info from my iPad that the GR-55 will also receive. I now need to investigate a separate MIDI setup that talks to both units from my iPad or iPhone.

c/
The button mapping on the VL3 is fully customisable per preset, or global.
I can therefore use any of the dedicated footswitch (delay, reverb, drive, hit, mod ...) to drive any other internal function. When driving the GR-55 I can keep the settings consistent, and during live shows I do not need to remember which buttons affects which setting. Peace of mind and I can concentrate on playing music, improv. and stage play - NOT my tech.

d/
Since the VL3 also supports additional footswitchs and expression pedals (I personally use a 20+ years old Roland EV-5), there is room for more!
I plan to purchase TC-Helicon's own Footswitch-3 (http://www.tc-helicon.com/products/switch-3/) once it is at a reasonable price here in Australia, since it is natively supported by the VL3 in its setup.

I am now only limited by the GR-55's 8 assigns limit :/
My biggest wish for this unit would be to get at least 2x that (not sure it feasible software only or requires more memory and processing inside the box - @Elantric?).



3. Simplified setup.

Adding to the obvious above:

a/
Since I plugged the GR-55 into the VL3, via the AUX IN, I no longer have cables from the former going into the PA or console, as I used to.
I just use the main VL3 output, which carries both with reasonable mixing abilities. One less stereo cable out :)

Some may argue about that choice, I appreciate it cannot be everyone's; but for my personal use it is good enough so far as I can control the volume for the AUX input from the VL3 (and I plan to make use of the great info here on TouchOSC or TB Midi Stuff to do this without bending down from my tablet or phone).

The VL3 comes with a separate mix control for the headphones/monitor, which makes it great for IEM; it also has separate MONITOR IN and THRU for managing the stage sound when I move to bigger formations (wedding and staged shows mostly). this is a new addition to my stage setup, and it is impressively effective yet simple (now).

As indicated by another user, the signal received via the AUX is "hot" enough to force me to turn the GR-55's volume knob at 1/4 of the way to avoid saturated output.

Note that there is an option on the VL3 to reduce the db of every I/O as well as by mix type (main, headphone, effects), and I am still experimenting with the correct ratios, in order to get the best sound in my usual venues' consoles and my own PAs.

b/
It is LIGHTER!
Still as sturdy as the Digitech's, but lighter.
I carry my gear (pedal board, guitars, PA and stands) around a lot. This is a big thing for me :)



4. Looper

With regards to what I use it for, it fits the bill.

Of course, some experienced users will argue about the recording time or how other boxes do better this and that - but the fact is I will never need more than what the VL3 offers, making a RC-30 (for example) too much for my use.

Also, having used the latter, I enjoy the new approach and philosophy of the VL3 looper's interface - it is "more visual".
Plus the VL3's LoopAssist feature makes it easy to start looping seamlessly.
I enjoy it even more now that the initial issues have been corrected.

Note that I record & loop both my voice(s) and the audio output from the GR-55 (but I can also choose whether to have only one of them), so definitely a great tool for improvisation or small bands (for instance I also play in a experimental duo with just a drummer and myself (http://www.viveladifference.com.au, *shameless self-promotion*) where I have to provide bass, rhythmic & melody/solo at the same time.

I have not yet used pre-recorded tracks in my songs, but I see how I could, and they can be controlled easily from the foot or a preset's start.


5. Misc

a/
Little things make me realise a lot of "thinking" went into the unit - such as the ability to filter the presets by favourites, genre, artists and else (which is great for live use and masking all these patches you'll never us when on stage), or the visual clues provided by the dynamic colour of the footswitches depending on which layer you are in (blue - I am touching the vocal layer, red = editing the guitar, purple = looper).

There is decent reasoning behind a lot of their choices, and you can read Craig explain and even ask the community for directions on what is expected from the unit. It feels the end-user/consumer is empowered

b/
It has been said at length here and elsewhere, the support from TC-Helicon is impressive.
The guys there, and Craig in particular, are really geared towards the end-user and actually respond (be it for acknowledging and acting on something or explain why it cannot/won't be done).
Their harnessing of the social media is good (far beyond the cold corporate approach of Roland, which is still my favourite maker of Guitar synth/modelisation at this stage).

I have never owned a piece of equipment that got better AFTER I purchased it and I have been buying pro gear for 25 years.
After years of using Roland/BOSS gear and getting the feeling I must stick with what I have (some of you know what I mean), it is a refreshing feeling.

c/
One downside would be the TC-Helicon's VoiceSupport application, which is limited to managing preset to and from the unit, but NOT editing them and forces your internet connection to download everything at start up, even for units you do not own. Depending on the updates and news to download, the app can take several minutes to simply open.

Here in Australia, we are still paying per volume (buying a quota per month) and therefore this is more an issue than an inconvenience. I have to disconnect the computer from the network before launching the app to manage my gear!?

There is a lack of a real editor, such as the one from our very own Gumtown.
I read somewhere, from Craig, that one was in the making, but could be mistaken - I'll 2x check and will EDIT.


--

I am now on a quest to come up a good MIDI/OSC template for my phone, to control both units, while my iPad controls the patch changes from the Onsong app.

Yay, more brain teasers for me (and the users on this forum)!
;D
Musical regards,

Toff.

Godin nylon ACS special edition (Light Burst Quilted Leaftop), Taylor T5 Classic, Fishman Triple Play, Roland GR-20, Roland GR-55, TC-Helicon VoiceLive 3, Digitech Vocalist Live5, iConnectMidi2+

Toff.

Quote from: musicman65 on May 24, 2014, 07:23:46 PM
Thanks Vade. Mine arrives this Thursday and I have gigs Friday and Saturday with different bands. I will probably just program it to have the same 22 patches my Vocalist 4 now has and run it manually. MIDI integration will take some planning. I hope its intuitive and easy to program or I'll be up all night!

Contact me, should you need help. I had the opportunity to spend time with both units (well my Vocalist is the Live 5, but the internals are mostly the same).
Musical regards,

Toff.

Godin nylon ACS special edition (Light Burst Quilted Leaftop), Taylor T5 Classic, Fishman Triple Play, Roland GR-20, Roland GR-55, TC-Helicon VoiceLive 3, Digitech Vocalist Live5, iConnectMidi2+

Neardark72

Toff that was an awesome feedback :)

I am planning on buying this nuit and I only use the gr55 as Well.

My english is getting better, but I'm not sure if I understood correctly about something. So please forgiez me if I'm just not understanding and its all There.

I was Thinking about pluging the guitar out of the gr-55 to the VL3, for the talkbox and vocal harmonies.
You said that There was some issues with because of the effects are not Well taken by the VL3. My consurn is that I use the cosm guitars alot and down tune or alt tune quite often with lots of effects, does that mean that I'm screwed with voice harmonies while I'm not playing with my axe tuning?
Unless, i play my tuning in clean mode and Try to get my tone from the VL3?

Second question, You said that the VL3 gives You the opportunity to filter your unit per favorites, do You have any issues to actually sélect those controlling your patches throught MIDI on your GR55?

These are my little consurns before I spend 800$ On this unit.
Sometimes, I have 3 gr-55 patches for a song (I'm playing lots of industrial or new metal bands), I'm hoping that I can scroll on the VL3, pick my song, and only have to play with the 1-2-3 pedal on the gr-55. I Want to deactivate the "up and down" buttons on the GK3 to have more controll on my effects, and have more "stand alone" patches.

Thanks again!
Man I love this forum!


Vade

@Toff; Now that is a helpful review of the VL3 and I applaud your taking the time to write it up. Thank you!
@
"a/
I wanted to get an additional midi pedal board to use with the Roland synth for a while, and there are many threads here about finding the perfect piece of equipment.
But I dreaded the additional footprint in an already heavy and large pedal board (currently totally filling up my huge Pedaltrain Pro).

Replacing the Vocalist with the VL3 allowed me to drive the GR-55 from the Guitar layer of the VL3 (since I am not using it for guitar sounds (but could, there is room for it)) using the GR-55's assigns and CC messages supported by the VL3.

Beware: Not all CC's are available, and some buttons from the VL3 cannot be mapped to the GR-55 (because of the latter's limitations).
I am going to try and map these, but this is new territory for me and I will take it slowly and ask the great people here  "

You're addressing a similar concern I had and I'm interested in hearing about the midi cc output of the VL3. I'm looking for a way to trigger patches/synths in my desktop DAW, Sonar X3, and perhaps IOS apps like Bias as well; any feedback or links would be appreciated. It would be great if I could bypass something like the Softstep 2 and get a least a starter package of midi out from the VL3.
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

Toff.

Quote from: Neardark72 on May 25, 2014, 07:35:53 AM
Toff that was an awesome feedback :)

No worries mate - It is my pleasure entirely. This forum has given me so much, I am glad if I can do anything :)


Quote
My english is getting better, but I'm not sure if I understood correctly about something. So please forgiez me if I'm just not understanding and its all There.

I see you are in Canada - If you understand/read French (the accents in some words may have given you away ^^), I can translate - I am a French native.


Quote
I was Thinking about pluging the guitar out of the gr-55 to the VL3, for the talkbox and vocal harmonies.
You said that There was some issues with because of the effects are not Well taken by the VL3. My consurn is that I use the cosm guitars alot and down tune or alt tune quite often with lots of effects, does that mean that I'm screwed with voice harmonies while I'm not playing with my axe tuning?
Unless, i play my tuning in clean mode and Try to get my tone from the VL3?

You will have no issue :)

In my post I was comparing to the older unit I was using (Digitech Vocalist 5) - And it does not support listening from the GR-55 directly.
The VL3 does it very well - So I can sing and get harmonies from the MAIN OUT off the GR-55 straight into the VL3.
You just need to tap the SETUP, and indicate which path is used for harmonies (default is guitar direct, so it needs to be set to AUX).
This means it will respond whatever the tuning, alt or not  8)

FYI, I do use the COSM + tuning a lot too.
For Jazz guitar sound for example I use an ES-335 sim + clean AMP with alternate tuning on the 2 lower strings (-12) in order to get a sound close to a double bass.
I would be lost if the VL3 couldn't operate on this config, as it makes 30% of my repertoire :)))

What I also said about some effects was pure interpretation on the reverbs, I am still discovering the unit and have not played with all params. So no drama there!
I am sure you will enjoy the quality of the effects.

I play mostly rhythmic guitar and walking bass, so I am not much of a soloist, but I played a bit with the Talkbox & the Vocoder and boy they are fun!  ;D :P
There are some presets from the NAMM demos that Tom Lang did - You can download them via their app (VoiceSupport) and install them on the VL3 very easily - They showcase those effects quite well.

Watch Tom & Craig's video:


Quote
Second question, You said that the VL3 gives You the opportunity to filter your unit per favorites

Yes - The front of the unit (check the picture here: http://www.tc-helicon.com/products/voicelive-3/feature-overview/) has a green button called "GENRE".
It allows you to filter the presets that you can select with the knob and the footswitch.
- "All" shows everything
- "favourites" only shows the ones you marked as preferred
- "Showcase" is the ones selected by TC-Helicon
- then you can go by music styles, or use (studio, reverbs ...).


Quote
do You have any issues to actually sélect those controlling your patches throught MIDI on your GR55?

Not at all. By default the GR-55 will load the presets in the same order as the VL3.
This means that preset 001 on the VL3 will activate the first preset of the first bank (SOLO?) of the GR-55.
Moving up by 1 preset will increment the GR-55 accordingly.

In order to change this behaviour you will need to modify the GR-55's preset map (SYSTEM > MIDI & USB) and specify which preset on the VL3 corresponds to which one on the GR-55.
I have not done this myself yet, as I actually plan to load my presets from the iPad's app Onsong.


Quote
Sometimes, I have 3 gr-55 patches for a song (I'm playing lots of industrial or new metal bands), I'm hoping that I can scroll on the VL3, pick my song, and only have to play with the 1-2-3 pedal on the gr-55. I Want to deactivate the "up and down" buttons on the GK3 to have more control on my effects, and have more "stand alone" patches.

I also plan to reclaim my GK buttons myself  ;)
In theory, there should not be an issue with what you want, but it requires a good understanding of the mapping I stated above.
This forum is certainly the best place to start.


Quote
Man I love this forum!

Pas mieux !
Musical regards,

Toff.

Godin nylon ACS special edition (Light Burst Quilted Leaftop), Taylor T5 Classic, Fishman Triple Play, Roland GR-20, Roland GR-55, TC-Helicon VoiceLive 3, Digitech Vocalist Live5, iConnectMidi2+

Toff.

#60
Quote from: Vade on May 25, 2014, 09:44:44 AM
@Toff; Now that is a helpful review of the VL3 and I applaud your taking the time to write it up. Thank you!

Then again, it is the least I can do :)
Happy if it helps anyone here.


Quote
You're addressing a similar concern I had and I'm interested in hearing about the midi cc output of the VL3. I'm looking for a way to trigger patches/synths in my desktop DAW, Sonar X3, and perhaps IOS apps like Bias as well; any feedback or links would be appreciated. It would be great if I could bypass something like the Softstep 2 and get a least a starter package of midi out from the VL3.

The "issue" I refer to is that the GR-55 is limited to listening up to certain CC (0, 32, 1–31, 33–63 & 64–95) and some of the footswitches on the VL3 fall in the gaps from the GR-55. Not sure if CC messages can be mapped though.

This is limited to physical button press, but I know that I could change a VL3 effect (delay) and mirror that on a DAW to trigger the same thing or anything else entirely.

The official forum is also a good place to ask: http://support.tc-helicon.com/forums/21570831-VoiceLive-1-2-3

Craig responded to a user currently using the VLt2 with a computer-based DAW to trigger backing tracks via MIDI, and explains some of the differences between v2 and v3 (mainly, no full MIDI sync - It can only be a slave, not a master :/)
http://support.tc-helicon.com/entries/39179287-VL3-or-VLT2-DAW-

In this one, he explains how to use the VL3's effects changes to trigger MIDI OUT to an external device (in this instance, an iPad running Onsong, but the logic is the same).
http://support.tc-helicon.com/entries/45778006-Sending-midi-message-from-VL3-to-Onsong


Check the manual, p. 118 (http://www.tc-helicon.com/download/manuals/voicelive-3/tc-helicon_voicelive_3_reference_manual_english.pdf) for the complete MIDI CC List.


As most would say, the best recommendation is to monitor the output via the computer, once you have the unit.
That will let you know exactly what happens when something is touched, and guide you on which message to setup.

Now, If you do not mind waiting until I get my MIDI interface (hopefully this week), I could research some specific messages you may want to investigate?
I am on Mac with Logic, but have used Sonar for years.
Musical regards,

Toff.

Godin nylon ACS special edition (Light Burst Quilted Leaftop), Taylor T5 Classic, Fishman Triple Play, Roland GR-20, Roland GR-55, TC-Helicon VoiceLive 3, Digitech Vocalist Live5, iConnectMidi2+

musicman65

With my current Vocalist4 setup, I run the Pin7 mag pickup signal to the Vocalist4 guitar input. This is a clean signal and it has no issues with harmonies as long as my mag volume is turned up. When playing high gain patches, if I lower the mag volume to clean up the tone, I lose harmony tracking. Also, no alt tuning.

I am thinking about using the SPDIF out on the VG99 to a tiny analog converter to send the COSM signal to the VL3. This should give a clean signal with alt tuning.

I'll report back after I get it sorted out next Thursday.

Toff.

Quote from: musicman65 on May 26, 2014, 09:46:57 AM
With my current Vocalist4 setup, I run the Pin7 mag pickup signal to the Vocalist4 guitar input. This is a clean signal and it has no issues with harmonies as long as my mag volume is turned up. When playing high gain patches, if I lower the mag volume to clean up the tone, I lose harmony tracking. Also, no alt tuning.

I am thinking about using the SPDIF out on the VG99 to a tiny analog converter to send the COSM signal to the VL3. This should give a clean signal with alt tuning.

I'll report back after I get it sorted out next Thursday.

I don't see why it wouldn't work, but then again I do not own a VG.

I had the same issue with the Vocalist Live 5 - Because of several presets where I do not want the natural sound of my guitar to be heard, I couldn't have the unit listen to the GR-55 guitar out.

So far, the VL3 solved 100% of my issues - I just now need to get the most of its power.
Musical regards,

Toff.

Godin nylon ACS special edition (Light Burst Quilted Leaftop), Taylor T5 Classic, Fishman Triple Play, Roland GR-20, Roland GR-55, TC-Helicon VoiceLive 3, Digitech Vocalist Live5, iConnectMidi2+

Vade

@Toff
Many thanks for the care you put into your reply and it does help. I'm rather new to all this and so I try not to ask too many questions when I could just do the reading on my own. But just last week I was looking into midi cc options to control my DAW/IOS and actually did a couple of searches looking for info about VL3 midi out. My search didn't yield much but it didn't matter because I had no intention to buy a VL3 this week... until I ran into an Ebay deal that gangster slapped me into opening my wallet. Just then your VL3 review comes in and you talk about VL3 midi out. How perfect is that? So thanks again for the response. I'm just going to spend a bit of time with the VL3, and the manual, when it arrives and see what I can figure out; being that it's my first attempt at midi cc.
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

Toff.

Quote from: Vade on May 26, 2014, 06:15:14 PM
.. until I ran into an Ebay deal that gangster slapped me into opening my wallet.

They got you too?
My missus is looking for them, she is not pleased ^^
Musical regards,

Toff.

Godin nylon ACS special edition (Light Burst Quilted Leaftop), Taylor T5 Classic, Fishman Triple Play, Roland GR-20, Roland GR-55, TC-Helicon VoiceLive 3, Digitech Vocalist Live5, iConnectMidi2+

mrowley

I have one of TC-Helicons discontinued models.... :'(
http://www.tc-helicon.com/products/voicesolo-vsm-300-xt/
I am using this compact unit to travel with, ......as a guitar Monitor!
Electric and acoustic both sound good thru this, not just vocals, plus there's a great I/O Box unit which allows all kinds of connectivity and darn it, it even functions as a mixer for two combinations I use, either Electric-GT5 with Acoustic guitar or Electric-GT5 with GR55 synth. :D
It's powerful enough to blow your head off at close range (on a mic stand) or as a wedge from the ground, plus it gives a nice signal to the PA board.
There's another guy in the band using one as well for vocals, acoustic guitar and flutes.

I would recommend TC-Helicon products any day.
They seem to be well-engineered thinking mens solutions for common guys like me! ::)


amplayer

I have a VL3.
I bought it primarily because I'm just an OK vocalist, and I sing and play acoustic at some gigs.
I haven't had much time with it, but I already did an acoustic gig with it.

Here's my first impressions.

  • Vocal preamp sounds pretty good.  Definitely good enough for live use.  Crispy sound by default, and plenty of gain available.  The auto-gain function works pretty well too.  I haven't done any S/N testing, but my first impression is that the preamps are plenty quiet enough for live use, but I wouldn't use it for recording since there would be better preamps available.  This is a Voice LIVE 3 after all.  It's clearly not designed for the studio.
  • Like the vocal preamp, the guitar preamp sounds pretty good to me.  I've mostly only used it on Acoustic guitar so far.  There's piles of TC effects available for guitar.  I tried a few with electric guitar in the practice room, and thought they sounded pretty good.  This definitely will NOT replace my Roland VG or even GT stuff though.
  • One VERY good thing about both the vocal and guitar preamps is that they both have plenty of headroom before clipping.  I wish Roland units had this much headroom!
  • Harmonies work pretty well after you figure out how to tweak them.  I use the guitar as the harmony input.  It works pretty well.  Even playing inversions still give good vocal harmony results most of the time.  The trick, I've found, is to keep the harmony voices down around -9 dB from the main vocal. Use Chromatic mode and then it doesn't get confused on certain chords.
  • Pitch correction is really natural if you want it to be.  I haven't really messed with the "Hard Tune" effect much, but it does give the Cher sound if you want that.
  • Unit is not the most reliable, at least so far.  A couple times it refused to boot.  Once, it switched patches while I was in the middle of practicing.  Thank God it didn't happen at the gig.  I may have pressed some inadvertent buttons a little before that.  I don't know.  Not sure if I trust this thing yet.
  • Reverb is subjective, but I think many of the reverbs sound really great.  The trick is to control the early reflections and don't use too much.  That is, unless you're in a surf band.  :)  One complaint I have about the reverbs is that the types available for vocal are completely different than the ones for guitar.  I guess it's understandable due to the architecture of the VL3 having separate chips for each.  But, it does bother me that I can't send both vocal and guitar through the same reverb.  Typically, I use more reverb on my lousy vocal than on my guitar, so it works Ok for me, but it's something to be aware of if you're considering purchasing.  The vocal reverbs are Helicon types, and the guitar reverbs are from TC.  There's plenty of nice sounding reverbs to choose from.
  • The VL3 is very light.  It remains to be seen if it is road worthy.  I play locally, and I'm careful, but if you're in a touring band, you'd better have a backup.
  • The power supply is a very short wall wart type.  I really don't like it.  My USA unit is 2-pronged (i.e., no ground)
  • I'm still on the fence about the Roland GP-10, but I'm thinking the GP-10 would be a fantastic pairing with the VL3 for a singing guitar player.  I'd send the guitar-out of the GP-10 to the VL3 for harmony detection, and then send the normal GP-10 to a FRFR amp.  That would be just a 2-pedal rig that would have pretty much everything. Maybe add a volume pedal to between the GP-10 and the FRFR, and it's good to go.

Neardark72

Thanks Toff for your generosity by taking the Time to answer all my questions.

Quote
"I have not done this myself yet, as I actually plan to load my presets from the iPad's app Onsong."

I see many of You guys are using this IPad app. I think it would be a good idea to Check this alternative myself as Well.

Elantric

QuoteI see many of You guys are using this IPad app. I think it would be a good idea to Check this alternative myself as Well.
Many of us are using Set list maker
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9090.0

Toff.

I only got Onsong because I saw it first in the App Store, and the feedback was extremely positive.

I use it on 2 iPads (a 2 and a 3), so that my drummer can follow wirelessly which song I am selecting (very practical!).
I like many things about it,including the support. But it has a tendency to hang or crash. And the song editing on the iPad is a bit tedious, I actually saved a lot of time by preparing my songs in PDF then converting them, but still a lot of work.

I understand SetListMaker does about everything Onsong can, and more (backing tracks for instance).
I have not tried it myself, because I already transferred all my songs to the onsong format.

At the end of the day, it comes down to what you really need a she yep of support you can get.
Had I known the importance of the latter in this forum, I would have probably got it instead.

But I will be happy to help or support you if you need.
Musical regards,

Toff.

Godin nylon ACS special edition (Light Burst Quilted Leaftop), Taylor T5 Classic, Fishman Triple Play, Roland GR-20, Roland GR-55, TC-Helicon VoiceLive 3, Digitech Vocalist Live5, iConnectMidi2+

Toff.

@amplayer

Thanks for sharing your impressions!
I couldn't agree more with you.


Quote from: amplayer on May 27, 2014, 09:01:10 AM
Harmonies work pretty well after you figure out how to tweak them.  ... Use Chromatic mode and then it doesn't get confused on certain chords.
That is the issue for me - and I have registered on their support/forum to ask if and how to get the harmonies to mimic more what I am used to with the Digitech harmonizer products.
Chromatic, be it for Hardtune or Harmony doesn't cut it for me, as I use many chords inversions and movements to have the harmonies "move" while I sustain a vocal note, a bit barbershop style. This requires Natplay to listen to the guitar/AUX IN.
Hopefully, if their history with community support & feedback is anything to judge them by, I am confident Craig will respond, check with their developers and provide feedback.


Quote
Unit is not the most reliable, at least so far.  A couple times it refused to boot.  Once, it switched patches while I was in the middle of practicing.  Thank God it didn't happen at the gig.  I may have pressed some inadvertent buttons a little before that.  I don't know.  Not sure if I trust this thing yet.
It does have a plastic feel, right? But at the same time the front and skeleton is definitely metal. We will see how it endures the gigging musician's life ^^

About the patch switching: I noticed that the button front are really hyper sensitive - I have got big hands and very often I activate the Looper or Store by mistake when attempting to use the knobs under the screen, which is a bit frustrating as it takes you away from the current preset edit or the MIX.
The large knob for patch & in-menu navigation is also very touchy.
I wouldn't be surprised if that is what happened to you.

A few times, I ended up modifying a totally different preset (and overwriting) than the one I was currently on, only to realise it too late when singing again.
For GR-55 owners, who suffer the dreaded "cut" when switching between presets, it is important to explain that the VL3 does not have this and also has a sustain from the previous patch into the new one (aka. I can hold a guitar note or vocal from a preset while moving into the next one seamlessly).


Quote
Reverb is subjective, but I think many of the reverbs sound really great.  The trick is to control the early reflections and don't use too much.

My first critic was about how they either sound too weak or too big. You are correct, the reflection is key. I am currently testing on the Jazz plate and the Broadway Hall.
Musical regards,

Toff.

Godin nylon ACS special edition (Light Burst Quilted Leaftop), Taylor T5 Classic, Fishman Triple Play, Roland GR-20, Roland GR-55, TC-Helicon VoiceLive 3, Digitech Vocalist Live5, iConnectMidi2+

mbenigni

It's probably just a matter of time before I pull the trigger on one of these.  I had a Memorial Day coupon burning a hole in my pocket - could have scored one for $650 - but it was my wife's birthday and I couldn't justify buying a huge present for myself instead of her.  :)

It's impressive that TC corrected the looper issues as quickly as they did.  For a while the feedback from Craig was leaning toward "that's just the way it is because it's such a complex system" and I kind of tuned out.  I did not expect them to drop a firmware rev and patch things up a few short weeks later.

I'm still curious about the quality of the TC guitar effects, as I'd probably use them to front a traditional guitar combo much of the time.

QuoteAnd the song editing on the iPad is a bit tedious, I actually saved a lot of time by preparing my songs in PDF then converting them, but still a lot of work.

I recently started using Unreal Book, which is great except for this very same issue.  I would never have guessed that "text editor" would be the requirement all of these apps get hung up on, but I guess allowing for subsequent markup complicates things.

amplayer

Quote from: mbenigni on May 28, 2014, 10:34:57 AM
I'm still curious about the quality of the TC guitar effects, as I'd probably use them to front a traditional guitar combo much of the time.

My limited playing with the TC effects in VL3 is that they're pretty darn good.  Putting them in front of a tube amp would probably be better than the amp sims in VL3, though this is subjective.
I don't have experience with the original TC effects as standalone devices, so I can't say how closely they're modelled.  What I can say, is that good effect sounds are to be had here.
I think you'd have to remap the buttons on VL3 to make it work as a guitar multi-effects box though.  Plan to spend some time tweaking ...

Toff.

Quote from: mbenigni on May 28, 2014, 10:34:57 AM
It's impressive that TC corrected the looper issues as quickly as they did.  For a while the feedback from Craig was leaning toward "that's just the way it is because it's such a complex system" and I kind of tuned out.  I did not expect them to drop a firmware rev and patch things up a few short weeks later.
It seemed at the time they would always try to correct this, but that it was taking too long for some.
A lot of members indicated that they often release updates and improvements based on customer feedback. That's why i decided to invest in them.
My feeling is that they wanted to release the unit too soon (NAMM) and it cost them a few bugs - Craig is doing an astounding job at managing the front end methinks.

Quote
I recently started using Unreal Book, which is great except for this very same issue.  I would never have guessed that "text editor" would be the requirement all of these apps get hung up on, but I guess allowing for subsequent markup complicates things.
I believe this is inherent to the iPad itself - Editing in a touch environment will always be "different" than with a keyboard and mouse.
But some apps really lack some finesse.
Musical regards,

Toff.

Godin nylon ACS special edition (Light Burst Quilted Leaftop), Taylor T5 Classic, Fishman Triple Play, Roland GR-20, Roland GR-55, TC-Helicon VoiceLive 3, Digitech Vocalist Live5, iConnectMidi2+

Toff.

Quote from: amplayer on May 28, 2014, 10:46:24 AM
My limited playing with the TC effects in VL3 is that they're pretty darn good.  Putting them in front of a tube amp would probably be better than the amp sims in VL3, though this is subjective.
I don't have experience with the original TC effects as standalone devices, so I can't say how closely they're modelled.  What I can say, is that good effect sounds are to be had here.
I think you'd have to remap the buttons on VL3 to make it work as a guitar multi-effects box though.  Plan to spend some time tweaking ...

I am pretty happy with the tones, and I mainly play Nylon strings. I had fun sampling the different effect.
I may not use the guitar layer because of the GR-55 being far above, but the VL3 is a good multi-effect.

I suggest you get the Footswitch-3 pedal ($49 in the US, nearly double here in Australia :/), if you want to augment your control.
That, plus an expression pedal, is an easy way to control the buttonmap (only MIDI CCs are required, no sysex).

In my case, unfortunately, I want to access things that require SySex on both units, so I am on my journey to learn :)
Musical regards,

Toff.

Godin nylon ACS special edition (Light Burst Quilted Leaftop), Taylor T5 Classic, Fishman Triple Play, Roland GR-20, Roland GR-55, TC-Helicon VoiceLive 3, Digitech Vocalist Live5, iConnectMidi2+