VG-99 dies

Started by jon_bondy, June 03, 2013, 06:18:27 AM

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jon_bondy

I set up some patches for a gig, and when I returned to review them, some of them did not work.  When I switched to those patches, they were either silent or had some hiss.  Sometimes some of the controls (foot pedals) could change the hiss slightly.

I coped some other patches on top of the problem patches, and that worked for a while, but slowly, over a few hours, all of the patches stopped working.  I mean every single patch just generated hiss.  I reset the unit to factory specs, and it still does not work at all.  Some hiss out of some patches.  The page that allows you to see the levels from the strings works, but the tuner does not work.  All of the controls seem to work normally (you can page through the various options and change them).

I know I can send the unit back to Roland, but have no idea if this is a good idea.  Perhaps I would be better off just buying one used.

Anyone see this before and/or have a recommendation?

aliensporebomb

#1
Yikes - that would drive me into stark raving terror.

Elantric: what do you think?

Here's what I'd try - to rule out your GK pickup/cable try using your mag pickups with the quarter inch input.  If you still get hiss or no noises then the VG might be the issue.  I wonder what it would cost to repair the VG?
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

Kevin M

Did you use headphones to rule out any issues with your monitoring and/or cables from the output?

Elantric

#3
QuoteElantric: what do you think?

Take it to the nearest Roland Repair center asap
or here

http://www.vstservice.com/
Virtual Sounds Technology   
1270 Lincoln Ave Suite 1000
Pasadena Ca, 91103

Phone:626-794-8196
Fax:626-794-0340

Sales@vstservice.com


Just a word of caution for other VG-99 owners,
If the VG-99 has a weakness, most failures can be directly associated to the VG-99's Plastic Chassis.

I own two VG-99's , my 2nd VG-99 was purchased as "broken - sold for parts " for $100.
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/archive/index.php/t-911206.html
The Roland Repair Center quoted $900 to implement a repair (Replace the Main PC Board) . This fact really must be taken into consideration when jumping in with both feet into using a VG-99 for 100% of your rig.

IMHO - The $$ Cost of Roland Repair Fees on a typical broken VG-99 is typically WAY out of the ballpark as a reasonable repair fee for a gigging musician, and presents a deal breaker for many players.

The problem with this "failed" VG-99 (I purchased for $100)  is a massive reverb like build up of noise after every patch change.

Investigating the failure, it was traced to a cracked PC board in the DSP and RAM Memory area of the circuit board.   

The internal VG-99 PC boards are very fragile and do not like abrupt shocks or slight twists which may occur if you are not careful transporting the VG-99. (Do not stack other gear on top of your VG-99 gig bag!)  Also avoid thermal shocks, that could occur if you leave the VG-99 overnight in a vehicle during cold Winter weather - then turn it on without proper time for the VG-99 to assume room temperature.



The GR-55 is actually far more robust, since it employs a Steel Chassis 

So I advise VG-99 Users to
* Find an affordable used backup VG-99   
* Be very careful when transporting.


jon_bondy

Yes, but the fact that the tuner no longer works makes it pretty easy to see whether it is working or not.

Quote from: kmaus10 on June 03, 2013, 08:43:50 AM
Did you use headphones to rule out any issues with your monitoring and/or cables from the output?

jon_bondy

Quote from: Elantric on June 03, 2013, 09:05:39 AM
Take it to the nearest Roland Repair center asap or here

http://www.vstservice.com/
Virtual Sounds Technology   
1270 Lincoln Ave Suite 1000
Pasadena Ca, 91103

Phone:626-794-8196
Fax:626-794-0340

Sales@vstservice.com


Hard to do that given that they are closed for 2 weeks.


Quote from: Elantric on June 03, 2013, 09:05:39 AM
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/archive/index.php/t-911206.html
The Roland Repair Center quoted $900 to implement a repair (Replace the Main PC Board) . This fact really must be taken into consideration when jumping in with both feet into using a VG-99 for 100% of your rig.

This is why I want to explore other options here first

Quote from: Elantric on June 03, 2013, 09:05:39 AM

The internal VG-99 PC boards are very fragile and do not like abrupt shocks or slight twists which may occur if you are not careful transporting the VG-99. (Do not stack other gear on top of your VG-99 gig bag!)  Also avoid thermal shocks, that could occur if you leave the VG-99 overnight in a vehicle during cold Winter weather - then turn it on without proper time for the VG-99 to assume room temperature.


This did not occur as a result of rough transport, and it came on slowly, as if a part were slowly failing.

Elantric

QuoteYes, but the fact that the tuner no longer works makes it pretty easy to see whether it is working or not.

Replace the 13 pin cable or try a different 13 pin guitar

rolandvg99

Do you hear any inside mechanical noises when lightly shaking the unit with it turned off?

Mine "lost" a few front controllers due to one of the 4 springs grounding the front plate with the back coming loose and shorting part of the circuitry. Don't know how it could have happened, but it sure was on a walkabout. Put it back where it belonged and everything was fine and dandy again.
To V or not to V: That is the question.

My little Soundcloud corner

Bill Ruppert

Wow very sorry to hear this.
I have never had a problem with moving around a lot.

Does the 1/4 input work with effects?

musicman65

I know this doesn't help you but I have to comment that this is the first failure I remember reported on this forum...although I'm sure there are others. It is a rarity, it seems. Roland generally makes tough stuff.

I have been using my VG99 live and in the studio for 5 years now. Mine lives in a custom roadcase and has been left in my car in the winter and summer. It gets moved (setup/torn down) about 5 times a week. I have never had a Roland product fail me. I have old keyboards and a drum machine from the late 80's and a V-Session drum kit in my studio/practice room.

I would agree that twisting the chassis is probably a bad thing. I would consider that abuse. My roadcase has the VG99 strapped down with Velcro to a rigid mount and would never get twisted. I did back over the road case with my truck when I forgot to load it before leaving! The road case split but the contents survived.

As far as repairs go, backup your VG99 and start shopping on eBay. I bought a mint VG99 for $700 a while back. Most manufacturers of electronics will charge 50% of new to refurb or swap a device through a repair/exchange program. $900 is ludicrous. They are basically indicating they don't want to be bothered. Buy used and move on. :)

bd

aliensporebomb

#10
Does anyone near Jon have a GR guitar with a GK cable to test out a totally different setup with Jon's gear?
If I was nearby I'd be right over.

I can't imagine - even if the tuner isn't working try that quarter inch in.  If you've reset to factory defaults and it's still acting odd I wonder if it isn't what Asle mentioned.

Other possibilities?  GK cable.  GK2/3. 

I'm definetely getting custom padding for this - this thread is truly scary stuff.

My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

musicman65

#11
Anything you want to last with road use needs to go in a "live-in" case with hook up cables already connected. That way you take the front (or top) off, plug up the other ends of the cables to the PA/Amp/Power/Guitar and play.

This avoids wear and tear on device connections and protects the gear. It also simplifies setup and eliminates misplaced cables.

bd

Bill Ruppert

There have been a few dead 99s here but not a lot from what I remember.
I will say I have had dead gear from EVERY manufacture there is.

To be honest I bet its a 10% +/- failure rate for every company.
Its just the way it is across the board.

Toby Krebs

Very sorry to hear about this. With these kind of devices a failure or loss is much tougher because of the time we spend programming and personalizing them. If you do find another used one after determining your VG99 is bricked you can try this. I have repaired many circuit board driven devices with(Sony PS3s/keyless car transmitters /Rocktron Banshee etc...) using this technique I learned repairing my son's  bricked PS3. Take a heat gun and reflow all the solder joints on every circuit board in the thing that you can. This has worked for me a few times and if you are handy and have nothing to lose anyway you might try it. Good Luck To You!

gumtown

Maybe try backing the VG-99 up to file, patches and system, then try a factory reset.
See if the problem persists, if fixed, try reloading the backed up patches and system files.

Check the plug-in GK system, 13 pin cable and GK functions, in particular the GK Select switch and the GK volume, and power is present (both +7v and -7volts).
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

jon_bondy

It is reset to factory specs.

The lights and switches all continue to work.

I can see the levels on all 6 strings in the System pages, so the pickup and cable are not the problem.

Quote from: gumtown on June 03, 2013, 11:56:40 PM
Maybe try backing the VG-99 up to file, patches and system, then try a factory reset.
See if the problem persists, if fixed, try reloading the backed up patches and system files.

Check the plug-in GK system, 13 pin cable and GK functions, in particular the GK Select switch and the GK volume, and power is present (both +7v and -7volts).

jon_bondy

Since I can see the levels for all six strings in the System pages, I do not believe that it is the guitar or the pickups.

Quote from: aliensporebomb on June 03, 2013, 08:00:03 PM
Does anyone near Jon have a GR guitar with a GK cable to test out a totally different setup with Jon's gear?
If I was nearby I'd be right over.

I can't imagine - even if the tuner isn't working try that quarter inch in.  If you've reset to factory defaults and it's still acting odd I wonder if it isn't what Asle mentioned.

Other possibilities?  GK cable.  GK2/3. 


aliensporebomb

Can you get the VG into maintenance mode (there was a .PDF here a while ago for maintenance technicians that showed how to get in) and run some of the self-tests?  Maybe you can find out what part of the VG is having issues.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

Toby Krebs

Forgot to add that I also repaired my old GR-33 after a manatee sized dancer gal landed on it with her cocktail and it made a horrible screeching sound and the display went crazy. Used the heat gun on it and reflowed some other solder joints too.Works perfect. I was lucky that time.Power supply problems make these things act strangely too. I hope some sort of good resolution happens for you. I am currently looking for a used GR55 as a backup because I know eventually something will happen.

booth421

I worry about this happening as well and always have that emergency kidney bean shaped pod thing just in case things go horribly bad when playing out.. I also have a small padded suitcase for the unit which makes it easy and safe.. I am another who relies completely on the 99 for tone, feel and life itself.. I would have to get another pronto like if this one stopped..
Check my solo stuff out at Soundclick.com "Frank Must Die"

Elantric

#20
Be sure to try this repair technique too

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=7117.0

Wayne T wrote>
QuoteI discovered the culprit of my woes...

After point to point testing the cable, Deoxit-izing the contacts, disassembly of the pickup & control unit (finding that nothing was helping), I cracked open the back of the main VG 99 unit to inspect the solder points of the 13-pin - thinking there might be a failed solder point.

Once I got it open, I noticed a ribbon connector that was not seated properly (from the orientation of the unit with the "fat side" to the top, it was immediately to the right of the 13-pin socket).

I seated the connector (and poked around to see if any others were unseated), closed it up, and VOILA - it's working just fine.


Just another FYI for you all... Obviously, don't void your warranty if you still have one (which opening the back will do), but if you're beyond the warranty - this is an easy thing to locate and fix.


QuoteCan you get the VG into maintenance mode (there was a .PDF here a while ago for maintenance technicians that showed how to get in) and run some of the self-tests?
And every VG-99 Owner needs to keep a copy of this handy
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=28.0;attach=965

jon_bondy

I will open the beast up when I can find some spare time.

I do have a copy of the Service Manual.  I was able to get to the point where I needed a specially wired LAN cable, at which point I could go no further.  So, all of the memory checks out OK, the LEDs and switches check out OK.

Toby Krebs

Ribbon cables....even my damn Fender tube amps have them.

Elantric

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8645.msg62028#msg62028
Then you do not want to hear what a typical VG-99 repair costs at your Roland Repair Center
(I bought a used VG-99 four years ago for $100, because it has an intermittent noise due to a poor solder joint under a Ball Grid Array DSP, and Roland US quoted $900 for a repair to the former owner) 

(hint - the X-Box heat gun BGA IC fix was the solution)
http://hackaday.com/2011/02/24/heat-gun-gpu-reflow-fixes-laptop/




I find it ridiculous that today even at the main Roland US Corporate headquarters in LA, they still do not own a Surface Mount Rework station in the repair department to make basic defective IC swaps on the PC board.
http://www.zeph.com/zt-7.htm


Not to sound like a cranky old man, but the Electronics repair industry today has really been dumbed down, reduced to swapping entire motherboards, and only pre-requisite to get a job as an electronics   repair technician is a Newegg receipt as proof that you built your last Windows PC. Soldering skills are no longer necessary, and might be a liability, since making an actual PC board repair by reading schematics,  troubleshooting and changing out a few bad internal components is actually frowned upon, since its far more profitable to swap out a $850 motherboard, than make actual repairs on the existing PC board by swapping out a few bad jacks, capacitors, and resistors and charge $150 for 2 hours labor)   

musicman65

I totally agree. My first coop job in college was working for a kiosk-style video game service center (1989). We repaired the boards in those games (PacMan, Donkey Kong, etc) regardless of the damage. Very seldom did we trash a board and install a new one.

Today, its a lost art and most Technical Universities and Trade Schools don't produce people capable of in-depth chip level troubleshooting.

Welcome to the new economy in Amerika.

bd