GP-10- Gig Setup, GP-10 or used VG99

Started by pasha811, September 11, 2014, 02:57:51 AM

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pasha811

I love my VG99. I do not use many sounds but what I have is very satisfying. However I'm back to stage with a band soon and I do not want to carry my VG99 along as it might suffer damage..I treat like a Chinese Porcelain manufacture worth millions of $.
So here's the question.. 425 Euros for GK3+GP10  Model, or 349 GP10 only against an used VG99 for 500 Euros.

So getting the VG99 used is:

Pros
I could carry with me all the sounds and settings I am accustomed with zero fuss.
I will leave one VG99 @ home plugged to my Computer for Home Recording and sound shaping, ready at all times.
I have experience with my VG99 and I know what can and can't give

Cons
Higher Cost
Investment in an 'old' technology
Possible risks to get miss drivers for future Mac OS X versions.

What do you think?
I know many of you are lucky owners of both...and most have appreciated the form factor and capabilities of the GP-10

Best
Pasha
 
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

gumtown

I say go with what you know best, another VG-99.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Kevin M

Also, decide if you will need a foot controller. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Brak(E)man

Get both !
If you can't get the vg 99
I got a GP-10 that I've used in the studio
and at some rehearsals ,
I'm getting a 3rd VG 99
the GP falls short in so many ways.
Keep an old computer for old drivers :)
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

pasha811

Quote from: Brak(E)man on September 11, 2014, 10:27:56 PM
Get both !
If you can't get the vg 99
I got a GP-10 that I've used in the studio
and at some rehearsals ,
I'm getting a 3rd VG 99
the GP falls short in so many ways.
Keep an old computer for old drivers :)

Thanks. I also looked at some other posts of yours and found some 'fall short' meanings for GP-10. :-)
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

Brak(E)man

Quote from: pasha811 on September 18, 2014, 04:59:25 AM
Thanks. I also looked at some other posts of yours and found some 'fall short' meanings for GP-10. :-)

well I guess if you compare it to the 99 there's so much missing from it , if one doesn't use
all the stuff on the 99 and are happy with the limited fx and models , it's a bargain
but I don't think i will take it to another Gig but I guess that depends on what one
want's to be able to do with the sound whilst playing, I'd miss the hands on air beam and ribbon and the
controllers that you can tweak in realtime and 2 model's + the normal PU and ....
I might gig with it  , who knows, but I'm getting another VG for sure.
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

supernicd

QuoteI'd miss the hands on air beam and ribbon and the controllers that you can tweak in realtime

I'd be really interested in hearing more about that.  Mostly because I haven't really used them for anything, and the general consensus 'round here seems to be that those controllers are a novelty that drove the cost up, and are difficult to use in practice (because guitar requires 2 hands).  Really interesting to hear that someone puts them to good use.  Do you use them for the pitch bend/filter sweep/freeze stuff like is wired up in a lot of the factory patches or have you found other creative uses?  Just curious - always looking for new ways to exploit my 99.

I don't have an opinion to offer on the original topic since I don't have a GP-10 other than the updated COSM intrigues me and that some of the limitations have kept me from pulling the trigger thus far.  But I won't judge it until I'm able to get my hands on one.  I will say that other than not having the latest COSM, the 99 has left little to be desired for me.  Sorry for the slight hijack. :)
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

Elantric

#7
Quotebe really interested in hearing more about that.  Mostly because I haven't really used them for anything, and the general consensus 'round here seems to be that those controllers are a novelty that drove the cost up, and are difficult to use in practice (because guitar requires 2 hands).  Really interesting to hear that someone puts them to good use.  Do you use them for the pitch bend/filter sweep/freeze stuff like is wired up in a lot of the factory patches or have you found other creative uses?  Just curious - always looking for new ways to exploit my 99.

Watch the Paul Hanson  NAMM VG-99 videos for effective use of the VG-99 D Beam Controller.
One must recall this same controller was standard stuff on most Roland Juno G synths and SP-606  Samplers, did not represent much added expense  for Roland to implement on the VG-99.

www.roland.com/video/page.cfm?id=1126103801001

More about D BEAM Controller here.
www.roland.com/support/article/?q=faq&p=V-SYNTH&id=1831585

pasha811

Quote from: SuperNiCd on September 20, 2014, 01:05:14 PM
I'd be really interested in hearing more about that.  Mostly because I haven't really used them for anything, and the general consensus 'round here seems to be that those controllers are a novelty that drove the cost up, and are difficult to use in practice (because guitar requires 2 hands).  Really interesting to hear that someone puts them to good use.  Do you use them for the pitch bend/filter sweep/freeze stuff like is wired up in a lot of the factory patches or have you found other creative uses?  Just curious - always looking for new ways to exploit my 99.

I don't have an opinion to offer on the original topic since I don't have a GP-10 other than the updated COSM intrigues me and that some of the limitations have kept me from pulling the trigger thus far.  But I won't judge it until I'm able to get my hands on one.  I will say that other than not having the latest COSM, the 99 has left little to be desired for me.  Sorry for the slight hijack. :)

Hijack is welcomed when it brings opinions :-)
Recently I am using VG99 as a GP-10, just to see if it fits. However for the first time in almost three years..I am playing with Assigns (16 on the VG99 with double event trigger, 8 on the GP10) and you can do wonders with that. For what it's worth GP-10 looks even more tempting now because of that. 8 Assigns are huge even with single event. As reported by some users, 1 Patch can pose as three patches. because of that!  8)
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

Brak(E)man

#9
Quote from: SuperNiCd on September 20, 2014, 01:05:14 PM
I'd be really interested in hearing more about that.  Mostly because I haven't really used them for anything, and the general consensus 'round here seems to be that those controllers are a novelty that drove the cost up, and are difficult to use in practice (because guitar requires 2 hands).  Really interesting to hear that someone puts them to good use.  Do you use them for the pitch bend/filter sweep/freeze stuff like is wired up in a lot of the factory patches or have you found other creative uses?  Just curious - always looking for new ways to exploit my 99.

I don't have an opinion to offer on the original topic since I don't have a GP-10 other than the updated COSM intrigues me and that some of the limitations have kept me from pulling the trigger thus far.  But I won't judge it until I'm able to get my hands on one.  I will say that other than not having the latest COSM, the 99 has left little to be desired for me.  Sorry for the slight hijack. :)

I'll post a short clip that uses a lot of tweaking with the beam , controllers etc. as soon as it's on the new Cd ,
release date soon. and I use them both as wired up and stuff that I programmed like 2 functions etc.
But in general I use my right hand for the controllers on the 99 and same goes for my DD-20 that I use for looping.
sometimes both hands or my left
( it might help that i have fernandes sustainer on my guitars )

I keep both on a stand next to me, sometimes i just swing the neck over the beam as well.
also the mix between the channels  , delay on/of, dynamic etc , I use all of them.
I don't use any foot controller apart from an expression pedal, I thought of adding
2 FS-5U switches but it's to much to carry 

here's an early example ( not the one mentioned above ) , the lead guitar and " chord guitar " is manipulated with hands only except volume

http://brakophonic.bandcamp.com/track/jetlagg 
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

supernicd

Thanks for the links and thoughts guys.  Great track, Brak(E)man!  I'm going to take a second look at the D Beam and Ribbon and see if I can make them my own.
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

pasha811

#11
One of the things that bugs me about GP-10 is the lack of a 'proper' FX chain. Compressor should have been made standalone IMHO.
If you want a Compressor you can have only a Chorus. Maybe this can be fixed in a future firmware but I am afraid it has been built that way. (Roland are you listening?) The Modeling options are great but the way the FX block is made limits a lot.
I have reviewed my VG99 patches and Compressor is present most of times, especially in lead patches with hi-gain. I guess this can be done with GP-10 by using Comp + COSM AMP distortion and saying goodbye to OD/DS, fair enough. If you want cheesy sounds, with Compressor, Uni-V, Chorus well you can't. You have to say good bye to Compressor. I do not know if T-Comp (Valve Compression Simulation) can suffice in both cases (Lead and Cheese). So.. I am facing an hard decision here.. VG99 if not treated properly could fail. I take extreme care with my VG99 in my aluminum case and I'd like to have it for many, many years to come. I am not holding my breath for a VG-100 but VG99 on stage.. but when I think GP-10...Rant ON - Roland, even ME-25 has proper FX chain! Come on! - Rant OFF.
Maybe I simply have to reinvent my sounds and embrace the Less is More philosophy. GP-10 is a Zen Box. :o
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

Brak(E)man

Quote from: pasha811 on October 03, 2014, 10:28:36 PM
One of the things that bugs me about GP-10 is the lack of a 'proper' FX chain. Compressor should have been made standalone IMHO.
If you want a Compressor you can have only a Chorus. Maybe this can be fixed in a future firmware but I am afraid it has been built that way. (Roland are you listening?) The Modeling options are great but the way the FX block is made limits a lot.
I have reviewed my VG99 patches and Compressor is present most of times, especially in lead patches with hi-gain. I guess this can be done with GP-10 by using Comp + COSM AMP distortion and saying goodbye to OD/DS, fair enough. If you want cheesy sounds, with Compressor, Uni-V, Chorus well you can't. You have to say good bye to Compressor. I do not know if T-Comp (Valve Compression Simulation) can suffice in both cases (Lead and Cheese). So.. I am facing an hard decision here.. VG99 if not treated properly could fail. I take extreme care with my VG99 in my aluminum case and I'd like to have it for many, many years to come. I am not holding my breath for a VG-100 but VG99 on stage.. but when I think GP-10...Rant ON - Roland, even ME-25 has proper FX chain! Come on! - Rant OFF.
Maybe I simply have to reinvent my sounds and embrace the Less is More philosophy. GP-10 is a Zen Box. :o

all true
i thought i had overlooked something when i couldn't find a separate compressor or a od/dist but in the fx box.
( I think i had the same experience when geting the 88 after the 8 NO OD/DIST pedal , but that actually works )
then I realized that I wasn't wrong but Boss is in the wrong , and sometimes less is more but most of  the time
less is less and more is more , that's the true Zen wisdom.
i'm getting a 3rd 99
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

pasha811

#13
Quote from: Brak(E)man on October 03, 2014, 10:47:13 PM
...and sometimes less is more but most of  the time less is less and more is more , that's the true Zen wisdom.

Darth Vader: The Force is strong with this one.

Cast : Darth Vader, performed by GP-10 lead engineer.

Thank you for reply!
Best
Pasha
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

supernicd

Well, I won't knock the GP-10 until I've tried it.  It' has impressed a lot of members here who have 'tried 'em all', and there must be something to that.

It does seem like the VG-99's functionality has been divided up between the Boss GP-10 and the Boss GT-100, and also some new and desirable features have been added to each that doesn't exist on the VG-99 (e.g. OSC synth on GP-10, several new cool FX and amp models on the GT-100).  If there were a way to control them all together (which I don't believe there is other than maybe involving a Raspberry PI), you could run one or two GP-10s into a GT-100 and have yourself a rugged VG-100 with the latest COSM.  And it would still cost less than the VG-99 standalone did new.  Even if a raspberry PI could make them all talk for synchronized assigns and patch changes, it would not have the straightforward workflow of a single integrated unit though.  And it would be a lot of boxes. ;)
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

pasha811

Quote from: SuperNiCd on October 04, 2014, 05:02:54 AM
Well, I won't knock the GP-10 until I've tried it.  It' has impressed a lot of members here who have 'tried 'em all', and there must be something to that.

It does seem like the VG-99's functionality has been divided up between the Boss GP-10 and the Boss GT-100, and also some new and desirable features have been added to each that doesn't exist on the VG-99 (e.g. OSC synth on GP-10, several new cool FX and amp models on the GT-100).  If there were a way to control them all together (which I don't believe there is other than maybe involving a Raspberry PI), you could run one or two GP-10s into a GT-100 and have yourself a rugged VG-100 with the latest COSM.  And it would still cost less than the VG-99 standalone did new.  Even if a raspberry PI could make them all talk for synchronized assigns and patch changes, it would not have the straightforward workflow of a single integrated unit though.  And it would be a lot of boxes. ;)

:-) Very good vision. I was looking at GT-100 last night and had the same impression. They spread functions between the two. This morning I have listened to Tone Central Samples. I can bet that there's some processing in the DAW but they sound damn good. So maybe my perception and usage of Compression is overrated. However today I have bought some bulged foam material to protect my VG99 inside its case. That was something I should have done anyway.
GP-10 is tempting me day and night... but those limitations are hard to accept. Getting GP-10 and GT-100 might be a good idea especially if you have an old spare laptop...with some USB ports :-) Maybe today the guy at the shop will let me try it..although it's saturday.. crossing fingers.
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

supernicd

The GT-100 doesn't get a huge amount of "talk time" on this site.  Possibly because, well, it IS VGuitar Forums and it is not a VGuitar unit. :)  But it is an awesome MFX.  In my opinion it is head and shoulders above the other GT-series MFX's I've had in the past.  It is easy to navigate and program, and it sounds great.  You don't have to work hard to get a very realistic tube-like tone with a tube-like play feel.  I feel bad for not using it more than I do but once you've had all the COSM guitars at your disposal it's not easy to go without them.  I've often thought about using the GR-55 for COSM guitar modeling and the GT-100 for everything else but that seems like an awful lot of gear to take to the stage.
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

pasha811

Quote from: SuperNiCd on October 04, 2014, 11:29:09 AM
The GT-100 doesn't get a huge amount of "talk time" on this site.  Possibly because, well, it IS VGuitar Forums and it is not a VGuitar unit. :)  But it is an awesome MFX.  In my opinion it is head and shoulders above the other GT-series MFX's I've had in the past.  It is easy to navigate and program, and it sounds great.  You don't have to work hard to get a very realistic tube-like tone with a tube-like play feel.  I feel bad for not using it more than I do but once you've had all the COSM guitars at your disposal it's not easy to go without them.  I've often thought about using the GR-55 for COSM guitar modeling and the GT-100 for everything else but that seems like an awful lot of gear to take to the stage.

My thoughts are very close to yours. GT-100 has also an Acoustic Guitar Simulator (I guess close to AC-3 single pedal) but I have read mixed reviews about that. Sure what makes COSM Guitar Modeling so great is that once you get accustomed to it it's difficult to do without. I have specific needs, like jumping from acoustic to lead (hi gain) guitar. This can be done only with COSM modeling. I could concede some difference in the Acoustic kind but not in the Lead tube-like tone range. I am trying to thin my setup because of an injury in my back that prevents from lifting heavy weights. On and on, despite its limitations maybe GP-10 in a way has it all... But yes, GT-100 would have been the way to go if I had not known COSM Guitars... (looking also for ME-80... but still no COSM Guitars)

Best
Pasha
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

giffenf

Well, now you've done it!  All that talk about VG-99 fragility due to lead-free solder, and now I'm afraid to take it out of the house.

I don't think I've abused mine, but it's got a lot of miles on it.  I keep it in a converted aluminum camera case with velcro straps to hold it in place and pads around it, and it's never had an issue.  I did finally manage to break the original Ethernet cable to the FC-300 recently after 7 years, but that was easy to replace.  As has been said above, the FC-300 is built like a tank.

I have a once-a-year gig I do that requires acoustic, 12-string, and electric guitars, and since it's at 7:30 in the morning on a Saturday, I try to make it as easy as possible.  I normally used by VG-99, but this year at the rehearsal it sounded awful through my Quilter MicroPro, and I wasn't going to have time to troubleshoot it before the gig (it was a busy week), so I took a chance and used my GP-10 and Quilter Steelaire (similarly less-than-superb results last time I used that live, but it was a low-risk gig anyway).  Stuck down to a Pedaltrain 2 with a couple of other pedals, it's still the lightest-weight pedalboard I've ever assembled, and it sounded great on every song, which ranged from Tom Petty's "Runnin' Down a Dream," to "Walk Don't Run," to "Walk Right In, Sit Right Down," to "8 More Miles to Louisville."  Yes, it was a 10K run, hence the early call time.

pasha811

Quote from: giffenf on October 06, 2014, 01:57:14 PM
Well, now you've done it!  All that talk about VG-99 fragility due to lead-free solder, and now I'm afraid to take it out of the house.

I don't think I've abused mine, but it's got a lot of miles on it.  I keep it in a converted aluminum camera case with velcro straps to hold it in place and pads around it, and it's never had an issue.  I did finally manage to break the original Ethernet cable to the FC-300 recently after 7 years, but that was easy to replace.  As has been said above, the FC-300 is built like a tank.

I have a once-a-year gig I do that requires acoustic, 12-string, and electric guitars, and since it's at 7:30 in the morning on a Saturday, I try to make it as easy as possible.  I normally used by VG-99, but this year at the rehearsal it sounded awful through my Quilter MicroPro, and I wasn't going to have time to troubleshoot it before the gig (it was a busy week), so I took a chance and used my GP-10 and Quilter Steelaire (similarly less-than-superb results last time I used that live, but it was a low-risk gig anyway).  Stuck down to a Pedaltrain 2 with a couple of other pedals, it's still the lightest-weight pedalboard I've ever assembled, and it sounded great on every song, which ranged from Tom Petty's "Runnin' Down a Dream," to "Walk Don't Run," to "Walk Right In, Sit Right Down," to "8 More Miles to Louisville."  Yes, it was a 10K run, hence the early call time.

You're right. Once you have spilled milk...
Reading through your encouraging post I have spotted that you use (or my understanding is wrong) some pedals along with GP-10.
Can you detail that?
In the meantime I have reinforced my metal case to carry VG99 along and filled it with bulge foam. I am determined to give GP-10 a try. Very soon.

Best Regards, Thanks!
Pasha
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

giffenf

#20
QuoteReading through your encouraging post I have spotted that you use (or my understanding is wrong) some pedals along with GP-10.
Can you detail that?

Sure.  At this point, I have two actual pedals on it, one signal router (more of an AB switch, really), and an FS-6 for Ctl-3 and -4 on the GP-10.  One pedal, a Nocturne Atomic Brain (http://www.thenocturnebrain.com) is a preamp pedal that I use for my non-GK guitars to give a little oomph going into the amp.  Modeled guitars seldom need it and sometimes don't sound as good with this preamp so I often don't use it if I'm using modeled sounds.  The other pedal is an Aphex Acoustic Exciter, a now-discontinued bass/treble enhancer with an XLR DI built into it.  This box works for those times when the tone needs something to sweeten or fatten it a little (to my ears, anyway), and in case I need to go direct, I have a DI all ready (since, unlike the 99, the GP-10 doesn't have XLR outs.  It also smooths out an acoustic guitar's piezo pickup output and improves its plugged-in sound.

Now as for the signal chain, the GP-10's Mono Out goes to the B side input of the AB switch (I think it's a Radial AB switch, I bought it because TrueTone didn't have any LS-2s in stock when I went there for one).  A non-GK guitar plugs into the A side if I need it, then the output of the AB switch goes to the Atomic Brain (or truly-bypassed if I'm not using it), then to Aphex, then to the amp (or PA).  I really should get around to photographing it sometime, maybe tonight.  There's lots of space left on this board, and it's not like me to leave things that way, I mean, I have empty ports on the Voodoo Labs PedalPower and it seems so...wrong....  I have a decent overdrive pedal that would fit, and a little cheap delay pedal like Ashley Kingman uses, I have the parts to build another switcher like the AB switch but with some LEDs on it (the Radial unit doesn't have them) so I can look at it and know which guitar is alive, shoot, I just remembered I just got an EH B9, and that needs to go somewhere, I'm sure I'll have it stuffed in no time. 

Oh yeah, before you say it, yes, I know I could use the Guitar In jack for non-GK guitars and take advantage of all the GP-10s effects and amp models, and sometimes I do, but the Mono Out doesn't sound the same as bypassing the GP-10 completely no matter what I do (so far), plus when I have a GK cable plugged in along with a 1/4" to the Guitar In, the tuner stops working for both of them, which I find annoying.

And one more thing, no, I'm not trying to power the GP-10 with the Voodoo Labs power supply.  I ran a teeny little extension cord from the PedalPower's accessory outlet through the frame of the board to the underside where the Boss adapter plugs in.  Had to chop and channel an AC plug to fit inside the frame, then pot it in silicone to insulate it; not terribly pretty but it works, and it's hidden.

pasha811

Thanks for the very detailed explanation.
Now it's all clear to me. :-)

Best
Pasha
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

giffenf

Added a couple of things to the board and finally took a picture of it.  Removed the Radial AB switch and put in an "X Box" that I built that switches between either the pedal chain to the LS-2 or straight to the LS-2 and out to the amp.  It also provides an input to send a non-GK guitar through the pedals.  TrueTone got an LS-2 in stock so I bought it and stuck it on (that's an amazingly useful and versatile pedal, I now have one on each board), and found room for my EH B9 pedal, made a few more patch cables, and here ya are:

mateomasfeo

Dances with Sheep on SoundCLoud

https://soundcloud.com/dances-with-sheep

giffenf

That's good advice, mateomasfeo. I started thinking how screwed I'd be if my 99 died on me, and shopped for a backup unit on eBay. I found one at a low auction price and bid appreciably less than a lot of people were asking for used units at Buy It Now prices, particularly since this unit comes with an unused GK-3, and much to my surprise, I ended up high bidder.

Not giving up on the GP-10, but glad to have a contingency plan in case my beloved 99 takes an early retirement. Won't be buying any more guitars for a while, but that's probably a good thing.  Now I just have to find that US-20 I have lying around somewhere....