Marshall CODE - DSP modeling Amps

Started by mchad, January 20, 2016, 06:12:05 PM

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vtgearhead

#25
Quote from: CBHScott on September 10, 2016, 06:41:02 AM
It seems to me that maybe the cabinet on the 50 is TOO large, and contributes to the woofy tone. If you look at the proportions between the 25 and 50, the 50 seems abnormally and proportionally large (or, maybe the 25 is abnormally/proportionally too small? ;) .

The point of a sealed cabinet is to load the speaker acoustically by interacting with the natural resonance.  In order to have a predictable effect, the cabinet cannot introduce any spurious resonance of its own.  The Code 50 cabinet has a flimsy pressboard back panel that vibrates like a drum head at its own characteristic frequency, giving the cabinet a very low Q-factor.  I don't know if this is completely to blame for the muddy low end, but it certainly isn't helping.

Quote
Compare these to the Mustangs/Vypyrs/Voxes/Spiders, where the cabs seems to be in proportion as the speakers get larger.

Those are all open-back units, so it's not really an apples-to-apples comparison.
https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?posts/22635168/
I had high hopes, but my heart has been broken. The DSP modeling must have been designed by the team responsible for the Peavey Vypyr series. I can best describe the sound as a caricature of the original amp. All overdriven tones have a reedy, buzzing overtone that is being generated by the modeling algorithm and cannot be rolled off using the tone controls. The cheap masonite cabinet back resonates like a drum head on low notes, adding to the already poor low-end definition.

If Marshall had spent an additional $3 to include pre-out/power-in jacks, it might be possible to EQ out some of the bees and mud but, alas, the bean counters must have prevailed. My Fender Mustang III (V2) eats it for breakfast in terms of sound, versatility and production quality.

At this point I'm inclined to trade up to a Blackstar ID60, having read a lot of positive comments from owners.

Elantric

#26
My biggest issue is all Marshall Code Amps employ the same preamp / preemphasis filter> A/D > DSP > post DAC filter design , and it's rather low dynamic range. , which the Metal Heads who play chugs-chugga and flurry of legato leads (any Rob Marcello demo) will never notice.

But if you are more into Bill Frissel, Daniel Lanoise, Jeff Beck - you will understand this is a Vypyr caliber sonic experience ( = hissy and poor dynamic range )

I can judge ANY DSP Modeller in a few easy steps.

1) crank the amp up to gig volume with a high gain patch , stand 6 feet away from the Amp  with a well setup Les Paul on Bridge PU Fret an E power chord ( 7th fret "A position Bar chord), and with one Pete Townsend style power strum hit the strings once , and then spend the next full minute carefully listening to what the DSP Amp delivers as the strings vibration naturally decay


I analyze the following :

The initial Attack transient ( was it too spikey or too spongy with too much sag)

The sustain , (a good DSP Amp sustains just as well as the real tube amp)

Around 15-30 seconds after the one power strum and all string vibration decays to a low level and have less energy/ less amplitude delivered into the Guitar input jack is the key area of interest for me.
At some point specific to each Amp under review (with all noise gates disabled and  off ) a poor designed DSP amp will no longer deliver the remains sound of your guitar, instead it delivers its own poor noise floor of hiss and noise , and bury the sound of the last remaining string vibration energy.

The best ones (like my AXE-FX into a QSC K12 cab ) will deliver a compiete range of musical expression for nearly a full minute after the one power chord strum

The poor ones will begin to sputter around 15- 20 seconds. Making it impossible to play many styles of music

vtgearhead

Quote from: CBHScott on September 10, 2016, 06:48:58 AM
I am not a Blackstar fan in general, but if I was to get a Blackstar, I would go with the ID TVPs. I have played through both a 15 and a 30, and both sounded really good - that TVP tone is very tubey-sounding.

IMO, though, stay away from anything in the ID Core series - sound like crap and have iffy QC.

Yes.  The ID Core amps appear to be suffering from Rampant Feature-itis.  I had already zeroed in on the ID60 TVP, since it has both pre-out/power-in jacks and a MIDI interface. 

CBHScott

Quote from: snhirsch on September 10, 2016, 07:16:17 AM
The point of a sealed cabinet is to load the speaker acoustically by interacting with the natural resonance.  In order to have a predictable effect, the cabinet cannot introduce any spurious resonance of its own.  The Code 50 cabinet has a flimsy pressboard back panel that vibrates like a drum head at its own characteristic frequency, giving the cabinet a very low Q-factor.  I don't know if this is completely to blame for the muddy low end, but it certainly isn't helping.

Those are all open-back units, so it's not really an apples-to-apples comparison.

Point taken, but the analog-modelling Vox AV series has closed backs as well, but don't suffer the same problems (I know, analog modelling vs. digital, but still...).

Elantric


Elantric


admin

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/marshall-code.1663348/page-40

There is a new third party tool. It's web based and lets you share patches with other people. You can send them direct from the web page to the code if your computer is hooked up via USB. There's also a realtime editing mode. It uses a similar interface based on the gateway app, only all tabs are combined on one page. You can upload, download and rate the patches. Works pretty well.

https://marshallcode.tools/


The 'secret' is requestMIDIAccess(), part of the new-ish Web MIDI spec (https://www.w3.org/TR/webmidi/), that's starting to appear in web browsers. It's now trivially easy to write a little JavaScript to do live amp editing (turn an amp knob and a browser 'input range' slider moves, drag a browser slider and the amp interface updates). That ability isn't limited to browsers, but now that browsers are a viable development target...



vtgearhead

Why do I suspect that 'requestMIDIAccess()' will figure prominently in upcoming exploits?

Elantric

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/marshall-code-50-disappointment.1744298/page-2
Turns out that the code 50 does ship with the code 25 presets which does account for some of the boomyness. I found it sounds much better about 2.5 feet up on a sideboard than it does on the floor.

BTW. New user created software for code is out this week under MIT license.

And there is a web based patch sharing and code editing solution already out at: https://marshallcode.tools also created by a community member and cross compatible with the above app which is released this week.




vtgearhead

Yes, it seems I'm not the only person who doesn't care for the Code 50's voicing.  I'm glad I traded up to the Blackstar ID:60 combo.  It may not have a huge array of features, but damn if it isn't simple to get good sounds out of. 

Elantric

#35
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?posts/23085145/
QuoteFound a pic of the code 50 , someone already put in a spacer/gasket but you can see where the fart noise comes from when you turn the volume up.

Astounding

#36
Quote from: Elantric on August 16, 2016, 02:19:24 PM
Fresh out of the box - bulk of the factory presets exhibit bright buzzy sounds with poor articulation on the low strings.

But the Bluetooth iPhone control works great, and with careful re-programming this amp can work OK.

although I feel a Cube-40/80 or Mustang III V2 has better dynamic range and fewer digital artifacts during note decay

The Marshall Code A/D / D/A Dynamic range matches its price point i.e. its similar to a Peavey Vypyr VIP2 - might actually get better / broader sounds with a VIP2.

The CODE's Pitch shifter is a can of bees - no substitute for a Eventide H9 here !

The Pitch shifter and most FX in Mustang III V2 are superior and some are Stereo - compared to the Mono FX only in the CODE.

Also the Marshall CODE Gateway IOS Music Player Plays music in Stereo to the CODE's Headphone output - but would not play many of my iTunes songs, despite most being purchased via iTunes (maybe a DRM issue)

You do get what you pay for

--
Had more play time with my Marshall Code 50.

This time I used my Gibson Les Paul CS8, and I had a much better tone and better midrange compared to my Reverend Warhawk with P90's
It does deliver many classic Marshall sounds - but its full of background noise

How much is Fender paying you?

vtgearhead

Fender pays all of us the same amount of money:  $0.00.  Nonetheless I think the Marshall CODE sounds awful.  I sent mine back after one day of playing with it. 

Elantric

#38
Many here have acquired Boss Katana's and selling redundant gear

like Vypyr's and Marshall CODE



rsm

I still dig my Code 50, it fills a gap for Marshall sounds in my gear, and I'm not a Marshall tone seeker so this fits my needs just fine. I use the mobile app to adjust sounds, not hearing or bothered by the digital artifacts. My Code is on the floor, based on some of the comments I may put it on an amp stand and see how that impacts what I hear.  I have my Boss/Roland guitar sounds pretty much covered or I'd have a Katana too/instead.

I still dig my pair of Roland CUBE-80GX amps using my GT-100 as MFX, if I wanted an amp rig.  My preference is to use my floorboard modelers (GT-1 + SY-300 is my main rig, I have a Helix LT, GT-100) now I'm experimenting with my GP-10 + SY-300)
rsm
bass | guitar | keys | Push

Rickenbacker | Steinberger | Boss | Roland
Using Digital and Solid State by Choice

admin

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?posts/25646892/

Greybox wrote>

The Marshall CODE 50 - it's loud, its got a huge sound and there are a lot of variances in the tones and options. It looks solidly built and looks nice. I put it in the studio alongside another of my usual amps and played it with 6 different guitars (tele, strat, lp, 7 string, hot super strat and a warm alnico 2 equipped super strat). I started to run through the presets from 00 up and got into the high 20s before I found anything even slightly acceptable. The amp was super bright, super sharp and anything with distortion was muddy on the low strings. I tried to dial out these tones with EQ and it didn't happen. I put a thick sweatshirt over the front (2 layers) and it was doing okay, that fixed the sound. I got into the 40s and was starting to like it okay when the sweatshirt fell off and I remembered how horrid it sounded.

It was rather intuitive as far as adjusting and changing sounds though.

I went through all 99 - none were good. I attempted to connect through the bluetooth to try to get better options and it wouldn't connect. I went on the Marshall site for the Code amps - there are 49 bluetooth or connectivity problems and no real answers. I worked with tech services and their answer was, it works when we do it (not good enough). The amp started to also gain a fizz as I leaned on it slightly to check the back of it and it never went away. When I talked to the rep about the tone and dialing out the sounds I didn't want he said there was no way to do it, the speaker is made to work as a bluetooth speaker so its not a typical guitar amp speaker and so it would always sound that way. The amp was returned soon after.

The BOSS Katana 50 sounds like a really good guitar amp should. Full tones, easy to use, possible to get great blues, rock, clean or even heavy sounds. Its freaking loud and the speaker sounds stiff but then again its a new amp and speaker, once it breaks in a bit it should be great. It hasn't developed any strange behaviors either. I highly recommend this.

The Katana has beautiful clean tones and the acoustic sounds good even with a solid body electric. The brown sound sounds like it should - anxious to get the speaker loosened up to hear it with the higher gain settings though. Easy to use, good tones, loud.

vtgearhead

That saga more or less parallels my experience with the CODE 50, although I didn't have it long enough to bother with tech support or remote connectivity.  In about 4 hours of playing I couldn't even get close to a useful sound.  Between resonance from the masonite back panel on low notes and the can-o-bees on the top end, it just wasn't going to happen.

Agree with all the points on the Katana, which I purchased several weeks later.

Elantric

#43
Quote from: snhirsch on January 18, 2018, 12:04:26 PM
That saga more or less parallels my experience with the CODE 50, although I didn't have it long enough to bother with tech support or remote connectivity.  In about 4 hours of playing I couldn't even get close to a useful sound.  Between resonance from the masonite back panel on low notes and the can-o-bees on the top end, it just wasn't going to happen.

Agree with all the points on the Katana, which I purchased several weeks later.

100% agree

I keep the Vypyr Pro and Code 50 around only as a " benchmark for bad"  and it would cost me more to ship via UPS to a new ebayer than they are worth.


admin

#45








admin

#46
I'm revisting my Code50



Terrible 12"  4 ohm 50 watt  speaker, they designed it for extended high frequencies for Bluetooth backing track audio,  but manifests  hyper treble guitar tones



I inserted a large piece of carpet padding inside the cab which helped tame the "drum head" resonate particle board chassis rear board on the non vented closed cab.

Code 50 appears to be built in Viet Nam in same manufacturer as Korg Vox Valvulator VT80+ , but the Vox is much higher quality power Amp and beefier Vox unbranded Speaker.  ( I dare ponder if Catalyst 100 may share much with Vox VT80+ power scaling class D TI power Amp. As Catalyst is built in Viet Nam too.



Pursued using the Marshal Gateway (Android) app, on Code 50, which by design only connects after a Bluetooth Audio connection is active on same device you intend to use for running Marshall Gateway app.



But Marshall Gateway  could never connect



Updated the Code 50 to latest firmware, had to use a Windows 10 laptop and Chrome browser MIDI USB Connect to use the Code50 Firmware update tools , it took several tries, as it updated firmware for boot loader, DSP, Bluetooth and MCU



After installing latest firmware , Marshall Gateway Android app still refused to locate the Marshall Code 50 and make connection.



Finally on a "MyMarshall message board I found this important step



 For anyone who is having the same issue, what worked for me is the following. Note that I'm using a Galaxy S8 and the process could be different depending on what phone you are using.

Reset network settings

1. From Home screen, touch and swipe up or down to display all apps.

2. Navigate: Settings > General management.

3. Tap Reset network settings.

4. Tap Reset settings.

5. If applicable, enter the PIN, password, fingerprint, or pattern then tap Reset again to confirm.



NOTE: This will reset ALL network settings including saved Wi-Fi passwords.



I hope this solves it for all of you having simillar issues. Thanks Marshall for the support and thank you for a killer AMP



So I Reset all my Android Network settings, rebooted my phone , and made the Bluetooth Audio Pair connection (mandatory) , then launched Marshall Gateway app (Code50 patch  Editor /Librarian) , and finally the app could locate the Code 50 and make a connection



The Marshall Gateway wireless app work fast- easily  100x faster than editing Boss GX-100 wireless with Android BTS for GX-100.



And rapid access to a tuner via wireless



Discovered there is a third party Windows Marshall Code Editor 



And Code50 supports MIDI over USB



No official ASIO driver , and appears USB audio is only 16 bit



But Code 50 exhibits is a raged  poor THD  distortion on tail of any long held note or  chord, most evident on single coil pickup guitars  ( just like every Peavey Vyper ive tried ) thankfully this background sputter is masked when playing with a live  drummer's ride cymbal

In 2016 , Bill Ruppert acquired the Marshall Code 25 , which I suspect sounds way  better than the Code50 as the Code 25  10"  speaker is less shrill , and not the can of bees high frequency ear bleed exhibited by the Code 50 12" speaker when used with a guitar with single coil pickups ( import Strat copy)



Inside the Code 50 , the Power amp is a Class D Power Amp, - I could insert an FX Loop, /Power Amp Input jack



But so far its still a brittle harsh experience, with single coils



In 2022, Marshall Code 50s are sold at yard sales or Craigslist  cheap, but may provide a platform for simple mods which may prove effective for those into soldering and re engineering instead of playing guitar ;)



Update 9pm. Now that I've had some time with my modified Code 50 and functional Marshall Gateway App , I'm discovering many of the poorly documented features and decent tones  using my Godin LGSA with  Seymour Duncan Humbuckers , I'm finding I can finally get decent tones - never possible before



I believe glueing an internal brace support to the rear cab back and adding rear vent ( like the Vox VT80+ has) may assist in taming the low frequency boom /rumble which plagues this Code50  model when fresh out of the box



The Marshall Gateway Editor app is ultra fast



2 way wireless  communication , any physical  knob changes are instantly reflected on my Android phone.  This means I could mount an Android phone on a mic stand and have a wireless  control and tuner experience.



I might determine if I can convert this into a busking amp with battery power, and get a Xsonic Airstep  working with it



It does support MIDI over USB




admin

Upon 1st delivery , I could never get anywhere close to the great Marshall  tones I'm now achieving with my Code50

The stock Speaker is finally breaking in. And my ears are ringing;)

Using my Godin LGSA with Seymour Duncan pickups and its 5 way coil tap I can get a wide array of tones I can use

Been jamming to old Savoy Brown LPs

And I'm getting a 99% match of Kim Simmons 1969 Marshall Tone



Elantric

#48
25 Sep 2023 -  Firmware v1.48
CODE100, CODE100H, CODE25, CODE50
Factory presets 00-10 have been replaced, when updating a CODE unit this will not affect your existing presets unless you perform a factory reset. You can access all versions of factory presets through Gateway within featured cloud presets (a new icon next to cloud preset search). The latest version of Marshall Gateway Mobile app reintroduced the CODE tuner. This firmware update improves the responsiveness and accuracy of this feature.


https://my.marshall.com/support/firmwareupdate