FTP- Does it matter how many patches in TP?

Started by PeterPan8, June 22, 2017, 08:40:14 AM

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PeterPan8

In order to optimize my play on TP, I created many patches.

Since I got my unit, a few months ago, I have gathered a pretty good number of VSTs and other effects. From all the available ones in banks, I created about 80 patches so far, and I intend to create some more.  I know that TriplePlay can hold more than that but I was wondering about one thing:

Does the number of patches has an effect on the efficiency of TP? Can the number of patches slow it down?  How about "Songs" created using those patches?

Thanks for your insight!

PeterPan8

How many patches do you usually hold in your "tank"?
How many patches are in your song books?

Anyone had any problems with patches?  If so, how did you resolve them?

shawnb

Short answer is no, the # of patches in your FTP does not impact performance in any way. 

I have never used the FTP "song" feature, due to the inability to change songs remotely.  I have, however, used similar "set" features - most notably SampleTank 3's Live Set feature - to pre-load samples to obtain instantaneous patch changes. 

The # of patches really, really depends on how you want to use your setup...  I have 2 primary FTP-based rigs:
  • FTP + GR30.  I only have 1 mono HW mode patch.  (I copied it 20x in the first patch slots in case of an accidental D-pad hit, but it was 1 simple mono HW-mode patch...)
  • FTP + laptop running DAW (Hollyhock) + FC300.  I had about 20 patches that corresponded to 20 "songs" in a ST3 Live Set.  These were very flexible patches, features & FX turned off & on via the FC300. 

I have had other variants, e.g., when I had multiple soft-synths running on the laptop.  But ultimately that was too complex, and it evolved into the more straightforward ST3-focused rig described above. 

Instantaneous patch changes & ease of use were my primary goals.  I do not want to touch my PC at all once it's running. 
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

shawnb

#3
One of the reasons I get away with so few patches is due to the programmability within Hollyhock...

In my HH rig, I use GuitarRig for guitar FX and ST3 for synth.  HH, being a DAW, also runs a few other things I need, such as a limiter at the end of the chain. 

The FTP Guitar-Mix-Synth switch directs where my MIDI PCs go.  I can select guitar/GuitarRig patches independently of synth/ST3 patches.  I can mix and match all I want, reducing the need for bunches of patches. 

Further, my guitar's volume knob controls guitar volume & my FTP knob controls synth volume.  It's like having a little mixer on my guitar, I can set the volumes independently of each other. 

Finally, the HH tempo is sync'd across all FX, guitar & synth.   Which I like. 

To accomplish this, I strictly use Hardware patches within the FTP app, and the ONLY thing they do is transmit MIDI PCs and change the FTP mono/poly setting.  The FTP is not acting as the VST host - HH is.  That's how I get the flexibility.
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

Elantric

Its worth pointing FTP users to ShawnB's FTP with HollyHock thread


SensoMusic (Usine) Hollyhock as VST Host for FTP
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=12087.msg87942#msg87942

SensoMusic (Usine) Hollyhock
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=6296.0

PeterPan8

Thanks guys for your answers!

At the moment, I'm testing many patches (adding, removing, swapping, and what have you). To view how the RAM loads stuff, I have installed a (free but limited) tool* which enables me to see what's going on RAM-wise. And I've noticed something peculiar.

Whenever I  load any patch, the RAM memory keeps adding up. If I switch to the next patch, I can see the RAM moving up by a few Mb. For instance, if I have about 10 to 15 patches that I have already tried, and load the next one, my system might crash unexpectedly. I don't even get the BSOD (Blue screen). The screen gets black and I can't do anything but do a cold reset. Then, I have to rescan all patches which takes a couple of minutes.

I'm trying to find a solution to free up some RAM automatically after a certain threshold. Any ideas?


* BTW, the tool is called CleanMem.

admin

#6
 There are many opinions but I always load up my computers with the most RAM available because I find the performance  of my sample players in Guitar to MIDI systems (IK SampleTank3)  become significantly faster  patch to patch changes on modern systems that support 32 gig of RAM

Find the RAM that suits your budget
But  with modern 64bit operating systems from Microsoft and Apple - 4 gig of ram is really not enough in today's world, 8 gig RAM minimum , 16 gig RAM better

I run 32gb RAM in a few machines

PeterPan8

I have a 16Gb RAM with a fairly new PC laptop (SSD and so forth). It runs quite smoothly with TP, but  it bugs me when it crashes. I was wondering if it has anything to do with Pagefile.sys or the RAM.

Hey, I play music, I don't do computer programming  ;)
But I guess the more RAM the better. I may look into upgrading to 32Gb in the future.

shawnb

#8
I may have misinterpreted what you meant by "in TP" in your original question...   

The FTP itself doesn't care because it's not storing the samples.  That's what I was referring to above. 

Actually, your PC doesn't really care too much if you're in a normal operating mode and your soft synth is only loading one patch at a time.  THAT will only be a problem if you have a massive patch (some piano patches are pretty big...).

Even on a PC, you'll only need those 32 GB of RAM if you are storing bunches of huge samples all at the same time.   

But most soft synths don't work that way.  They only load a patch at a time.  You don't need a lot of RAM for that.

On the other hand, the ST3 Live Set mode pre-stores all samples for all patches in the Live Set.   **THAT** can take a lot of RAM.

If you're only loading one patch at a time, you're not using that much RAM.  Honest. 

Hope this makes sense.   
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

shawnb

Computers often don't free up memory until they need to...  And that's the OS's job.  They tend to do pretty good at it.  No need to wrestle memory allocation control from the OS.

Just play!
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

PeterPan8

#10
Thanks Shawn, that makes lots of sense!
Now to my second question on "artifacts" (other post)....

shawnb

Where folks tend to run into problems is when they have many applications running on their computer.

E.g., one common issue is folks trying to run 6 instances of a synth to support mono mode (one channel per string), rather than finding a synth that can play a 6-part multi patch.   

This can be a problem if you have a synth you adore, but it doesn't run multi.   Sometimes, you gotta find a different synth... 

I like my ST3, because I can read a LOT on the UI (e.g., I can instantly tell if the FTP is sending mono vs poly as expected), it's very easy to program, and it can pre-load samples, minimizing patch change time during performance.   

Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp