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Roland VG-99 V-Guitar System => VG-99 Top things to know => Topic started by: Virtual Tone on February 26, 2008, 07:24:58 PM

Title: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: Virtual Tone on February 26, 2008, 07:24:58 PM
Roland VG-99 Normal Pickup Level

If you want to hear your guitar's original pickups in the VG-99, you need to increase the Normal PU level within each patch. Use the following steps to adjust the normal pickup level for a patch;

1. Select a patch to edit.

2. Press the "A" button.

3. Press PAGE right until you see "MIX LEVEL." (Depending on the setup of the patch, this is on page 6 or 7).

4. Turn the F2 knob to increase the NORMAL PU level.

5. Press WRITE twice if you want to save the new setting to the patch.

6. Repeat the steps for any other patches that you want to have the original pickup volume heard in.



=============




I have been chatting with Sustainiac/Elantric for the past 1/2 hour or more and I'm still at a stump so.... let's see if anyone knows how to fix this one!

The question is this.... "How to get my guitar pickups to play ONLY (no COSM) when the Guitar / mix/ GK switch is set to the Guitar position!"

First of all... the COSM plays only when the toggle is set to the DOWN position (great).

THEN... BOTH the COSM and my guitar's pickups play together in the MIDDLE position of the toggle whereas I can blend the guitar PU with the COSM (so far so good).

However... the UP position is completely dead. 

BUT!!!  Here's the Mystery!  ???

It's ONLY completely dead when the 13pin is connected to the guitar!

If I connect the 1/4 inch to the Guitar input on the back WITHOUT the 13pin connected to the guitar... the UP position on the toggle works great!  :D

It even works when it is plugged into my Fender amp.

So... WHY does the 13pin cancel out?  :o

My settings on page 33 in the manual are correct.
 

  COSM
GTR  SW
   ON

   Mix Level
COSM   Normal
Guitar     PU
  25       50

Any suggestions?

V.T.  8)

Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: Paresh on February 26, 2008, 07:43:55 PM
I think that's how it is for some units at least, me included. I haven't done the other tests you did (ie without 13 pin) but from the beginning the mags weren't working like they should. There were some old posts on the yahoo list about this but it didn't seem to affect too many users. I thought I remembered something about an improvement in the latest firmware update?
Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: mos6507 on February 26, 2008, 11:00:30 PM
Don't know if this will solve your problem but the VG-99 auto-detects the 1/4" input jack in the back if you have a cable inserted and will try to use that instead of the normal pickup signal running down the 13-pin jack, regardless of which cord actually has a live signal running through it.  This is NOT how it used to work on the VG-88.  The VG-88 just ignores the guitar input jack if it finds a live 13-pin jack and GK mode is set to auto.  So this new behavior can throw people off.  So before you start experimenting, make sure nothing is connected there.

I put an enhancement request in to have more direct control over when the 1/4" jack is used and how it could be mixed into the signal path with the normal pickup line on the GK rather it being just one or the other.  I think the hardware can do it.

Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: chipstar on February 26, 2008, 11:40:50 PM
Does the behavior change when you set the GK Control to Auto or On?

later,
Chipstar
Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: Virtual Tone on February 27, 2008, 02:47:56 AM
Quote from: chipstar on February 26, 2008, 11:40:50 PM
Does the behavior change when you set the GK Control to Auto or On?

later,
Chipstar

You need AUTO to hear the guitar in the mix when the toggle is in the middle set to both the VG and the PU's.

That works fine... so does the UP postion on the toggle WHEN the 13pin is not connected. 

I can play a chord with the toggle in the up postition and the 1/4 inch connected to the guitar and then connected to the input into the VG99...
THEN while that chord is being played... if I plug the 13pin INTO the guitar, the 13pin CUTS OFF the signal!  :o 

If I pull the 13pin out of the guitar while the chord is still playing... then the chord I played can be still be heard!   ???

Personally I think it's a wiring problem from Switch.  I bought this new with the warranty. Maybe they'll upgrade me to a Wild IV or something (can't hurt to ask right?).  ;D

If not... I'll take the guitar down to SMASH (Sam Ash) and then play it through their VG99.  I am having a GK Kit put into another guitar at Sam Ash so I can make sure the tech guy knows what's going on with this Wild I and then make sure the 13pin and the toggle is wired correctly (if that is the problem with this Wild I).   ;)

V.T. 8)

Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: fredo on February 27, 2008, 03:12:37 AM
To my understanding, what does the Guitar / Mix / Gk switch do :
Guitar : Sends the guitar signal to the GK cable + Sets the GK Volume to 0 (which can have strange behavior if you have assigned the GK Volume to a control other than COSM guitar volume !...).
Mix : Sends the guitar signal to the GK cable, without setting the GK Volume (actual value is set by the GK volume knob),
GK : Cuts the guitar signal from the GK cable, without setting the GK Volume (actual value is set by the GK volume knob).
This may explain some of the strange behavior...
Other thing to know : if a cable is connected to the guitar input of the VG-99, the normal guitar signal is taken from this cable instead of the signal from the GK cable.
Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: Virtual Tone on February 27, 2008, 04:42:45 AM
Quote from: fredo on February 27, 2008, 03:12:37 AM
To my understanding, what does the Guitar / Mix / Gk switch do :
Guitar : Sends the guitar signal to the GK cable + Sets the GK Volume to 0 (which can have strange behavior if you have assigned the GK Volume to a control other than COSM guitar volume !...).
Mix : Sends the guitar signal to the GK cable, without setting the GK Volume (actual value is set by the GK volume knob),
GK : Cuts the guitar signal from the GK cable, without setting the GK Volume (actual value is set by the GK volume knob).
This may explain some of the strange behavior...
Other thing to know : if a cable is connected to the guitar input of the VG-99, the normal guitar signal is taken from this cable instead of the signal from the GK cable.

Thanks fredo for your input!

RE: Guitar : Sends the guitar signal to the GK cable + Sets the GK Volume to 0 (which can have strange behavior if you have assigned the GK Volume to a control other than COSM guitar volume !...).

Let me see if I can mess with this and see if the guitar will work.

After all... this IS a BRAND NEW DAY!  :D

V.T.  8)

Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: chipstar on February 27, 2008, 05:31:00 AM
Nope, you need Auto. Mine works either way. Ha ha. In your face...

later,
Chipstar
Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: Virtual Tone on February 27, 2008, 06:48:57 AM
Quote from: chipstar on February 27, 2008, 05:31:00 AM
Nope, you need Auto. Mine works either way. Ha ha. In your face...

later,
Chipstar

Mine works either way TOO Chipstaaaaaaaarrrr!!!!!!!!

On or Auto!

So... IN YOOOOO FACE!!!! (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.addemoticons.com%2Femoticon%2Fanimated%2FAddEmoticons04222.gif&hash=bd431d9cfc406b86bd7e13110344da4e6b7815f8)
Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: Billy Kaffadrin on February 28, 2008, 08:48:59 AM
   Hi guys. Billy here, audio guy, musical initiate and all around seeker of knowledge.  I use a GK2 with my ESP Strat's output patched directly into it. 

    Right now my GK2a's  3 way switch does the following:

    "Guitar" position is the VG99  B Chain;  "Synth" Position is the VG99 A Chain, Middle is both A & B.  I see no options in the VG99 for changing these choices either. On either the A or B Chain you can use the COSM guitar model, the Guitar pickup/s audio, or a mix of both.  It depends on how loud you set the volumes of "COSM" or "Normal PU".  To get to this setting page, you hit "Modeling Type" A or B on the VG99, then arrow right 5 pages.  Usually a COSM guitar setting of 50 is near the 100 setting of my strat's pickups.  I have been setting Chain A with the COSM guitar volume at 50 and Normal Guitar PU at 0, and Chain B with the COSM guitar at 0 and the Normal PU at 100.  This way, I can switch between the normal guitar and one COSM guitar model with the 3 way switch - and the labeling on the GK2 is correct.  This makes me feel better somehow.   

GK-2 Volume pot

This is assignable of course on the System - GK - GKFUNC page, to control the A chain volume (foot volume A), B chain volume (foot volume B), or both (foot volume A&B).  You can also assign it as a balance know between A & B.  I'm tending towards it as the A Chain volume, since my guitar volume or my pedal board's volume pedal can turn my normal guitar (on the B chain) down.

     Also you do have to have the Mixer button turned on for a path you want to hear ... This has bit me a couple of times.  I would like to have my guitar out separate from the VG99's A & B audio chains.  But aside from not patching my guitar into the VG99 at all, this doesn't seem to be possible as far as I know.  It seems you have to choose between the A or B path - and that's it.

    I am open to further enlightenment on the subject.

Billy
Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: Billy Kaffadrin on February 28, 2008, 11:10:07 AM
   OK - upon further review...

    Yes when the GK2's 3 way is set to guitar, the "Mix Out" does see both the B Path (however that is set) and the Guitar shows up on the VG99's "Guitar output" jack.  (I have my guitar PU's patched through the GK2. Love the 1/8" cable...)  But the 3 way, when set to "Synth" does see both the A and B Paths - duh. Sorry for any confusion.

    [  Note to self, when changing the assigns for the GK2's volume pot, turn the pot all the way up before changing assignments, or you leave the previous (volume) level where it is (which may well be off.)  ]

    I find it convenient to as a reference point to set up A as a COSM guitar and B as my regular guitar's PU, so there is no overlap confusion.  The regular guitar is only hot when you switch to "Guitar" anyway, thus if the B path is regular Gtr. only it's muted when you have "Synth" Selected.  So I can switch from 12 string or sitar to my Stat comfortably that way.  Obviously some patches, which are very layered or use alternative tunings that doesn't work for. 


   Can anyone explain how to set up controllers (or footswitches), to turn the A and/or B chain switches on the VG99 on and off?

Thanks

Billy

PS   If Roland made a small 13 pin pedal that gave you just a few acoustic models and programmable alternate tunings, I would have bought that instead.   Poly Distortion, Poly Chorus, all the dumb 13 pin Boss pedals they made are pretty useless to most I think, but something like that I could stick on my pedalboard, play alternate tunings, sitar, dobro and electric slide models in open tunings with and not look like I came from outer space - well that would have been cool.  (Basically making your 13 pin guitar into a Variax or Fender VG guitar, only much much better...)
Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: hupur on March 01, 2008, 10:30:51 PM
[".  To get to this setting page, you hit "Modeling Type" A or B on the VG99, then arrow right 5 pages.  Usually a COSM guitar setting of 50 is near the 100 setting of my strat's pickups.  I have been setting Chain A with the COSM guitar volume at 50 and Normal Guitar PU at 0, and Chain B with the COSM guitar at 0 and the Normal PU at 100.  This way, I can switch between the normal guitar and one COSM guitar model with the 3 way switch - and the labeling on the GK2 is correct.  This makes me feel better somehow.   

Wow,Just bought my vg99 today and have been trying to get my normal pu's to work for about 2 hours.tried what Billy said and budda-bing it now works perfectly.thanks Billy
Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: mos6507 on March 01, 2008, 11:40:25 PM
Quote from: Billy Kaffadrin on February 28, 2008, 11:10:07 AM
Basically making your 13 pin guitar into a Variax or Fender VG guitar, only much much better...

Seems like a Variax transplant would be your best bet if you want just guitar models and alternate tunings.


Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: s0c9 on March 02, 2008, 11:28:39 AM
Quote from: hupur on March 01, 2008, 10:30:51 PM
[".  To get to this setting page, you hit "Modeling Type" A or B on the VG99, then arrow right 5 pages.  Usually a COSM guitar setting of 50 is near the 100 setting of my strat's pickups.  I have been setting Chain A with the COSM guitar volume at 50 and Normal Guitar PU at 0, and Chain B with the COSM guitar at 0 and the Normal PU at 100.  This way, I can switch between the normal guitar and one COSM guitar model with the 3 way switch - and the labeling on the GK2 is correct.  This makes me feel better somehow.   

Wow,Just bought my vg99 today and have been trying to get my normal pu's to work for about 2 hours.tried what Billy said and budda-bing it now works perfectly.thanks Billy

I've been "playing" with my VG99 for about an hour... picked it up yesterday afternoon, right before I headed out for a Sat night gig. In bed @ 03:30am, so I've just now got around to unpacking, etc.

Did all the setup [think I may have to lower the GK2A under the low E as I have sensitivity on it set to 11 and it's STILL too HOT !!]... Also, can't get normal PU's to work when switching on GK2A. There's some KILLER patches... and obviously my experiences at the Banjo center [https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=319.0] were due to an incorrect setup or faulty unit !!

So.. to make sure I understand Billy's statement.....
This this a per PATCH setting not GLOBAL !! 
Since I need to be able to switch between synth and normal PU's... this means a change to every user patch ???

TIA guys... I'm sure I'll have lots more questions.

-Steve
Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: s0c9 on March 02, 2008, 01:14:34 PM
Duh... answered my own question !!1

LOL..  standard guitar PU's [using a GK2A anyways, set to AUTO] have to have the level set on EACH PATCH !!!

This - while giving flexibilty, is also a PITA to adjust...
I think this should be an enhancement... add a GLOBAL feature that allows standard PU's to be ON/OFF and then have a gain level, just like on each patch today. 
thoughts ??
Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: Billy Kaffadrin on March 02, 2008, 02:08:18 PM
Quote from: mos6507 on March 01, 2008, 11:40:25 PM
Seems like a Variax transplant would be your best bet if you want just guitar models and alternate tunings.


      The Variax's don't sound near as good as the VG99, as far as I can tell.  And they don't do Sitar either and do nothing for me artistically, or simply as guitars. Also every Bass player using a Variax I have done live sound for hasn't sounded nearly as consistent or as good as a guy with just a bass and an amp - same thing with floor pods and the like, it send up my caution flags.  I had a G505 and a GR300 back in the day though, and that is a different story; Roland products have always been a cut above I think.

Billy
Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: mos6507 on March 03, 2008, 01:50:46 AM
Quote from: s0c9 on March 02, 2008, 01:14:34 PM
I think this should be an enhancement... add a GLOBAL feature that allows standard PU's to be ON/OFF and then have a gain level, just like on each patch today. 
thoughts ??

I am cool with the normal pickup being part of the patch.  I just don't like having to have dummy COSM settings and COSM enabled just so I can hear it!  The normal pickup level adjustment should be independent of COSM guitar.  It would be part of the channel, but it can be independently inserted into the FX chain.  I'd also want the same for the 1/4" jack.  Hopefully the VG-99 can bring in both signals at the same time.


Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: Elantric on March 03, 2008, 08:14:52 AM
>Re Variax - And they don't do Sitar either


Actually the Variax does a good Sitar, and IMHO better steel string acoustics. But I agree - the electrics on VG-99 sound better - though there are more customization options on the Variax

On a technical basis - I can see why the Variax Bass would suffer. adding a DSP and A/D and D/A adds latency and limits the transient response. A Squier P-Bass will always sound better.

Even for guitars - I think with the VG-99 we trade tone for versatility. The VG-99 gets 90% of the tone of most things it emulates, and its easier than lugging 12 guitars and 12 amps to the gig/session.

But we are fooling ourselves if we think this sounds better "than the real deal".

Yesterday I had a Jam / Audition with a Dire Straits / Ry Cooder type band - my  rig was a Brian Setzer Gretsch 6120 w/ bigsby and TV Jones Filtertrons > Maxon opto Compressor > Boss DS-1> Vol Pedal > Echo Park  > Roland Cube-60 on the "AC-30" setting-  it does many things  I can not duplicate with my VG-99. Again it all depends on the level of expertise and speed and familiarity we are with our tools. I just landed a gig with a new band with this rig (in this paragraph) - as good as I know the VG-99, I'm not going to waste other band members time while they watch me trying to tweak my sound with all the VG-99 parameters.  I'm thankful they are there, and i use them in the studio, but for live - I end up using typical rigs, and apply my brain power to figure out what I should be playing to contribute to the song - not sweating over my para EQ  / mic sim, COSM PU, etc, etc,

Id rather be playing music  - especially if its an audition.   

 
Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: s0c9 on March 03, 2008, 02:34:41 PM
Wow !!  OH so, true...

Perhaps that last post should spawn another in the "Live Techniques" forum :)
Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: Paresh on March 03, 2008, 02:56:46 PM
Re. Billy's set up:
I have been setting Chain A with the COSM guitar volume at 50 and Normal Guitar PU at 0, and Chain B with the COSM guitar at 0 and the Normal PU at 100.

That means we can't use one of the cosm guitars...doesn't that defeat one of the main features of the 99? Am I missing something?
Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: Elantric on March 03, 2008, 03:09:37 PM
You have 200 User patches - you will have to compromise and determine what to give up on every patch - as you can not "do it all" on every patch.
Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: mos6507 on March 03, 2008, 04:33:31 PM
Quote from: Paresh on March 03, 2008, 02:56:46 PM
Re. Billy's set up:
I have been setting Chain A with the COSM guitar volume at 50 and Normal Guitar PU at 0, and Chain B with the COSM guitar at 0 and the Normal PU at 100.

I don't see why you have to isolate one channel for each of these unless you want separate FX channels.

Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: Billy Kaffadrin on March 03, 2008, 11:10:49 PM
Quote from: sustainiac on March 03, 2008, 08:14:52 AM
>Re Variax - And they don't do Sitar either


Actually the Variax does a good Sitar, and IMHO better steel string acoustics. But I agree - the electrics on VG-99 sound better - though there are more customization options on the Variax>>

     I stand corrected - although if I plug a Variax into a guitar amp and a VG99 into a guitar amp, the Variax has always sounded pretty irritating to me.

>> Even for guitars - I think with the VG-99 we trade tone for versatility. The VG-99 gets 90% of the tone of most things it emulates, and its easier than lugging 12 guitars and 12 amps to the gig/session.

But we are fooling ourselves if we think this sounds better "than the real deal". >> 

     True.

>>Yesterday I had a Jam / Audition with a Dire Straits / Ry Cooder type band - my  rig was a Brian Setzer Gretsch 6120 w/ bigsby and TV Jones Filtertrons > Maxon opto Compressor > Boss DS-1> Vol Pedal > Echo Park  > Roland Cube-60 on the "AC-30" setting-  it does many things  I can not duplicate with my VG-99. Again it all depends on the level of expertise and speed and familiarity we are with our tools. I just landed a gig with a new band with this rig (in this paragraph) - as good as I know the VG-99, I'm not going to waste other band members time while they watch me trying to tweak my sound with all the VG-99 parameters.  I'm thankful they are there, and i use them in the studio, but for live - I end up using typical rigs, and apply my brain power to figure out what I should be playing to contribute to the song - not sweating over my para EQ  / mic sim, COSM PU, etc, etc,

Id rather be playing music  - especially if its an audition.  <<

      For auditions I'd use as few pedals as possible.  But I want to use the VG99 with my pedalboard and a tube amp, changing guitars models and tunings only.  I am hoping to avoid all the problems of having to tweak a bunch of digital domain stuff by using the pedal/tube amp chain, minimizing processing and following a normal guitar rig paradigm.  I do want to layer an acoustic model and my Strat though, and do 12 string/Nashville/raga tunings/open G tunings/ etc.  Sounds close enough for the convenience, and I sure can't afford Sonny Landreth's onboard computer system for changing tunings on the fly... It's like almost $4k.

Billy
Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: Elantric on March 04, 2008, 03:26:42 AM
Quote>and I sure can't afford Sonny Landreth's onboard computer system for changing tunings on the fly... It's like almost $4k.

That was the Transperformance tuning system
http://transperformance.com/ (http://transperformance.com/)

Sonny gave that up a few years ago - too heavy - lately he uses a custom Strat with a flat fret board and a Hipshot Triilogy tailpiece
$239

http://www.hipshotproducts.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=33 (http://www.hipshotproducts.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=33)
Our TMB3 is designed to give you endless possibilities of tuning exploration. Machined to retrofit your Strat. (Tremolo adapter block may be required). Includes installation instructions and hardware. Tuning chart included.

Here's how it works......
The Trilogy provides you with instant, smooth, and presise retuning of each string to three player-preset notes by means of specifically designed cam levers. Each string is independent of adjacent strings. (Tuning ranges of the 6th and 5th strings are approximately an octave; the 4th and 3rd strings are over a fifth; the 2nd string is approximately a fourth; and the 1st string is over a minor third.)


The german Tronical system arrived 3 years ago too-
http://www.tronical.com/products/powertune/ (http://www.tronical.com/products/powertune/)

and Gibson lifted it for their Robot Les Paul.
http://www.gibson.com/robotguitar/ (http://www.gibson.com/robotguitar/)
Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: Virtual Tone on March 04, 2008, 05:53:32 AM
Quote from: elantric on March 03, 2008, 08:14:52 AM
as good as I know the VG-99, I'm not going to waste other band members time while they watch me trying to tweak my sound with all the VG-99 parameters.  I'm thankful they are there, and i use them in the studio, but for live - I end up using typical rigs, and apply my brain power to figure out what I should be playing to contribute to the song - not sweating over my para EQ  / mic sim, COSM PU, etc, etc,

Id rather be playing music  - especially if its an audition.   


Hey Elantric

Do you ever take your VG-99 out for gigs once you now the type of sound the job requires and the VG-99 is all set up for those sounds?

Also... do you use your ToneLab LE for some gigs as well,?

Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: Virtual Tone on March 04, 2008, 06:09:08 AM
Quote from: sustainiac on March 03, 2008, 08:14:52 AM

The VG-99 gets 90% of the tone of most things it emulates, and its easier than lugging 12 guitars and 12 amps to the gig/session.

But we are fooling ourselves if we think this sounds better "than the real deal".
 

I was playing around with patch 034 "DUELIN B" the other day.  Sounds pretty sweet!

Even though it's not the "real deal' as we say... who says it has to be! 

In today's music there's all kinds of contemporary sounds hitting the charts. For me... it's what you do with the sound and how it fits the song that matters, not whether everything is just like it was back in 1964.

I think a blend of technologies is a good way to go.  Take the Fab Four VST from East West.  They sampled the same guitars and keyboards (some rare and hard to find) at the Abby Road studio through the actual mic pres and mics that the Beatles use to capture their sound.

Even though they are samples with limits to their depth and articulations, still... they have a one-of-a-kind sound that is almost identicle to the recordings of old.

To me... every sound whether digital or analog is a tool.  It's what you do with them that counts.  :)


Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: Elantric on March 04, 2008, 06:57:59 AM
I was playing in the Kristen Black Band in 2005
http://www.kristenblack.com/audio/jello/3jello.mp3

For the past 2 years I have been playing in a traditional surf band - its a Ventures tribute band called =The Dentures
http://www.myspace.com/slodentures

we are on youtube (i'm the long hair guy with the black guitar)

http://www.findinternettv.com/Video,item,1137594314.aspx

I joined to be the rhythm guitarist - just to have fun.
For that gig I try to be authentic to genre. If I play a solo I have guitars with floating jazzmaster tremolos

Di Pinto Galaxie IV,
http://www.dipintoguitars.com/guitars_galaxie4.html

or

Rondo Music SJM62
http://www.rondomusic.com/sjm623ts.html


to a 1963 Fender Tube reverb
http://www.fender.com/products/search.php?partno=0217500000

then either a maxon opto Compressor or Barber Tonepress, or a  Janglebox

and a Boss LS-2 used as a 6 db boost for solos.

This feeds a 1965 Fender Dual Showman, or a Twin, or a Vibrolux Reverb

It sounds like 1962  - The visuals are are big part of getting gigs. We have no vocals and play 4 hr gigs. And get paid and have a local following. surfs up!

We do it acoustically too
http://www.findinternettv.com/Video,item,2210311088.aspx

Playing acoustic guitars is mandatory for many gigs, if we play a winery they want to see us holding acoustic guitars - the electric guitars really scare them !!!! If we show up with electrics - They cringe fearing we might play something really disturbing.

I still do occasional soundtracks, and I rent my amps out locally. And I occasionally do TV commercials.

I intend to put the VG-99 to use, to introduce it into my system  - for  alternate tunings, and FX. to break up the monotony of typical guitar tones. I tried to do this several times before. With the VG-8, the VG-88, and now the VG-99.

The VG-99 is great in a home studio, when the song ideas are flowing so fast you just know you must record them before you loose them  - I can track all the parts  in one sitting, and not loose momentum.

I recently got a Roland Cube 60, a scratch and dent recent model with COSM amp sims  - it was a special from music123 for $250, and I suggest anyone trying to make the transition from tube rigs to VG-99, to do it baby steps. Its like we must acclimate our ears to the dynamics of these Roland COSM systems before we can embrace them. I had a really wonderful experience in a live jam with the Cube-60 and my pedal board.  Its very easy to get a great sound with that amp. I think my next step wil be to use the VG-99 with a pair of crate power blocks and a pair of celestion 12" cabs. I should be able to Match the sound of the Cube 60.  But I find the FC-300 is really limited in its controls. they need a stombox mode really bad. I'll probably use my FCB-1010 with UNO firmware - so I can program the top row of footswitches to be on/off for Compressor, Clean Boost, Tube Screamer, tremolo, delay. - and make the bottom row my patch channel change buttons.

I might give the FC-300 another try  - use the 3/4, 5/6 CTL jacks to add 4 CTL pedals - and use 7/8 jack for another expression pedal  - for volume. re- assign the on board expression pedals for my useful functions like pitch bend, and wet/ dry delay level.



Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: Billy Kaffadrin on March 04, 2008, 09:57:43 AM
Quote from: sustainiac on March 04, 2008, 03:26:42 AM
>and I sure can't afford Sonny Landreth's onboard computer system for changing tunings on the fly... It's like almost $4k.

That was the Transperformance tuning system
http://transperformance.com/

Sonny gave that up a few years ago - too heavy - lately he uses a custom Strat with a flat fret board and a Hipshot Triilogy tailpiece
$239

     Well yeah, I do tend to be behind the curve.  But now Sonny has gone bigtime touring with a dedicated tech, and I guess with north of 12 guitars and good support you don't need either system really.  'Course when it's just you on your lonesome supporting someone else that Transperfomance deal is pretty handy, you can cut it down to just a couple guitars. The guy does use I think like 8 different tunings, maybe more depending.

     Sonny gave me a "South Of I-10" CD and signed it for me awhile back when he was a musical guest on a TV Show I used to do bands for.  He had just a Strat and I think a Champ with him, and he played like a Stanley Jordan or Eddie Van Halen of the Slide guitar. Amazing musician and a really kind, genuine guy.

Billy
Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: Virtual Tone on March 05, 2008, 05:30:42 PM
I just got my Tradition G-12 guitar back from my tech guy but something isn't right with the wiring or something
(well... MAYBE something isn't right... read below for more info).

At first I couldn't blend my pups and the COSM but then s0c9 helped me on that one (read below).

The tech guy has done them before so... he should know what he's doing.

I was wondering if anyone else here has the internal GK Kit installed in their guitar. 

If so... what is the normal operation?

I am assuming that the toggle should be as follows.

1.  DOWN position.  This should be the VG-99 only.

2.  MID position.  this should be the VG-99 AND the guitar pups where you can blend the amount of guitar pups with the VG-99 via the guitar's volume knob.

3.  UP position.  This should be guitar pups only (no VG-99).

Is this how it should be wired?  If so... is there's some instructions online or something that clearly shows this so I can show my tech guy?

V.T.  8)
Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: s0c9 on March 05, 2008, 05:39:51 PM
Most [if not all] of the VG99's factory patches have normal PU level's set to zero.

This may be why you get no sound from guitar PU's when selected. To change:
Hit the "Modeling Type" button, page over [it differs from model to model] until you find the PU vol control [it's always under the F2 control] and change it.  I've been setting my level to 50-53.   Make sure you "WRITE" the patch or the changes is lost when you go to next one.

You have the choice of doing this for one or both models [assuming 2 are used]  :)
Tweak to taste LOL

Let us know how it goes...



Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: Virtual Tone on March 05, 2008, 06:50:53 PM
Ahhh Yes! I forgot about that part (DOH)  ::)

Ok... the VG and the guitar pups do blend together in the MID postion of the toggler. 

However I STILL do not get "guitar only" unless I set the GK pickup on that patch to off.

Does anyone have it where all 3 position work as stated above (VG only, Blend, guitar only) ???

BTW- This one is wired so the down position I get nothing, mid both, up VG-99 only  :P

V.T.  8)

Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: s0c9 on March 05, 2008, 07:23:47 PM
ME !!!!!!!  But I've got a GK-2A   :o
Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: Virtual Tone on March 05, 2008, 07:27:41 PM
Quote from:  s0c9 on March 05, 2008, 07:23:47 PM
ME !!!!!!!  But I've got a GK-2A   :o

Cool for you s0c9  :D ... but from what I understand the GK-3 and the GK-2A are basically the same.

Is there some sort of setting?  I wonder if anyone who has a Roland Ready Strat has all 3 working.

Also... is yours internal s0c9?

V.T.
Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: s0c9 on March 05, 2008, 07:48:11 PM
Nah.. external...GK

I understand from reading other posts that the GK-3 has a "sensing" buffer that when GK settings are set to AUTO goes to GK by default..
I think there's a post on how to solve it the GK section VT...
Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: Elantric on March 05, 2008, 09:24:17 PM

Read this thread starting here:

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=419.msg1540#msg1540


The VG-99 is a bit "user hostile" in regards to getting the normal PUs to work. You have to tweaK EVERY PATCH !
Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: chipstar on March 06, 2008, 12:52:13 AM
But of course, VT. I've told you that a few times. Mine works great but I've got a GK-3. Are you still talking about the GK-2A?

later,
Chipstar
Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: Virtual Tone on March 06, 2008, 04:34:35 AM
Quote from:  chipstar on March 06, 2008, 12:52:13 AM
But of course, VT. I've told you that a few times. Mine works great but I've got a GK-3. Are you still talking about the GK-2A?

later,
Chipstar

This is the new GK-3 that went into my Tradtion G12 guitar (remember we spoke about this as well).   

The way it's set up (the GK-3) it's acting the same was as my Wild I which has the GK-2A in it.

So... not sure if it's how it's wired or if there's some other settings in the VG-99 that needs to be tweaked.

I'll be messing with it today.  I might try to contact Roland as well and see what they say.

V.T.  8)

Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: Virtual Tone on March 06, 2008, 04:53:27 AM
Quote from: Billy Kaffadrin on February 28, 2008, 08:48:59 AM

Hi guys. Billy here, audio guy, musical initiate and all around seeker of knowledge.  I use a GK2 with my ESP Strat's output patched directly into it. 

Right now my GK2a's  3 way switch does the following:

  "Guitar" position is the VG99  B Chain;  "Synth" Position is the VG99 A Chain, Middle is both A & B. 

Billy

Is your GK2 internal or external?

Also... if it IS internal are you saying that the 3 way toggle selects  VG, Pups & VG, and then Synth?

So what if you don't have a synth and want the 3rd position on the toggle to be your guitar?

Perhaps setting up the patch as a stomp mode or something might work.

Can this be done?  Can you have you FC-300 set up so that it mutes either the guitar or the VG in a particular patch?

That would be one work-a-round.  Still... being able to select guitar only with the toggle would be nice.

V.T.

Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: dead_lizard on March 06, 2008, 06:50:02 AM
Forgive me if this is obvious.

You've got GK3 selected in Page One Of System/GK setting
Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: Virtual Tone on March 06, 2008, 07:09:03 AM
Quote from:  dead_lizard on March 06, 2008, 06:50:02 AM
Forgive me if this is obvious.

You've got GK3 selected in Page One Of System/GK setting

BOC (But of course)  ;D

It works whether it's on Auto or On.  The middle of the toggle is both and the upper is VG only.

The bottom is nothing.  Is this normal all should the toggle that has no signal be guitar pups only?

If I unplug the 13 bin then the guitar plays thru the 1/4 inch and in all 3 toggle positions with some variance of how hot the signal is.

My Wild I is wired the same, and it came new with the GK-2A built in. 

The only difference is the Wild's up is silence where the bottom is VG only (reversed from my Tradition G-12.)

V.T.  8)
Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: Elantric on March 06, 2008, 07:25:08 AM
When Billy mentions "Synth" - He is simply referring to the Switch Labels on the external GK-2A

The GK-3 changed this position Label to "GK"

A few folks with GK-3 kit internal do not even install this 3 position switch and do all the switching via the FC-300.

And yes - you can program patches that feature Guitar PU only, or COSM guitar only. Or a Mix of both.

Might suggest you spend some time to read the Manuals for the GK-2A, or GK-3 - both internal and external.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=78.0

And go back to page one of this thread and read the detailed instructions Billy provided on how to enable the ability of the GK-2A or GK-3's 3-position switch to swtich between:

Straight Guitar (normal PUs)

Mix

COSM Guitar ( labeled as Synth on the external GK-2A and  GK-3)

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=419.msg1540#msg1540

Not to be cranky  - but some of your questions come across as "When I sit in the driver seat of my car, What does that big round thing do? You know, the one sticking out of the instrument panel? 
Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: Elantric on March 06, 2008, 07:58:42 AM
Your Traditions "GUITAR/MIX/GK" switch needs to be rotated 180 degrees.

Factory GK Internal Installs will have

UP = Guitar (Normal PUs)

Middle = Mix

Down = GK (COSM Guitars on VG-99 ) or Synth if used with a GR-20, GR-33, etc.

Which is how your Switch Music "Wild" MIDI Guitar wired.
Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: chipstar on March 06, 2008, 08:29:47 AM
So your buddy was able to crank out the install that quickly? Wow, that's impressive.

later,
Chipstar
Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: Virtual Tone on March 06, 2008, 09:04:34 AM
Quote from:  sustainiac on March 06, 2008, 07:58:42 AM
Your Traditions "GUITAR/MIX/GK" switch needs to be rotated 180 degrees.

Factory GK Internal Installs will have

UP = Guitar (Normal PUs)

Middle = Mix

Down = GK (COSM Guitars on VG-99 ) or Synth if used with a GR-20, GR-33, etc.

Which is how your Switch Music "Wild" MIDI Guitar wired.

Thanks Sustaniac for your reply.  :)

However, my Wild I doesn't work either!  It's factory instal and down is VG, mid is both, and up is nothing.

Is there anything missing here?  ???

Maybe I should just ship the Wild I to you to look at!   ;D

V.T.
Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: Elantric on March 06, 2008, 09:22:00 AM
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=419.msg1540#msg1540
Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: Virtual Tone on March 06, 2008, 10:08:01 AM
Quote from:  sustainiac on March 06, 2008, 09:22:00 AM
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=419.msg1540#msg1540

Thanks Sustainiac!  Re-reading it again.  ;)

One thing I just discovered was this.  The toggle when set to "Guitar Only" the guitar IS WORKING... 'IF" I turn the PATCH LEVEL up!  ;D 

Normally the PATCH LEVEL is at 0.  When I turn it up to 200 I can hear just the guitar only!!! (YEAH).

However... when I go to save this by selecting WRITE... it doesn't save it.  ???

Now what?  More messing around eh?

V.T.
Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: chipstar on March 06, 2008, 10:58:41 AM
Exactly, now you've got it. Since the sound is coming out of the 13 pin connection, the volume has to be up. Enjoy.

later,
Chipstar
Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: Virtual Tone on March 06, 2008, 11:18:06 AM
Quote from:  chipstar on March 06, 2008, 10:58:41 AM
Exactly, now you've got it. Since the sound is coming out of the 13 pin connection, the volume has to be up. Enjoy.

later,
Chipstar

Thanks Chip ;)  However... I still haven't figured out how to save it?  :P

So... HOW do I save the patch?

Everytime I turn up the PATCH LEVEL knob... once I switch the toggle up then back down, it resets it to 0 (zero).  :o

Sustainiac?  You have a clue here?  ???

Thanks,
V.T. 8)

Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: Elantric on March 06, 2008, 11:25:46 AM
>Read up!

A very good idea:
http://lib.roland.co.jp/manual/en/dl_07-19743/VG-99_e3.pdf
Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: Virtual Tone on March 06, 2008, 11:28:43 AM
Quote from:  sustainiac on March 06, 2008, 11:25:46 AM
>Read up!

A very good idea:
http://lib.roland.co.jp/manual/en/dl_07-19743/VG-99_e3.pdf

I've read the manual several times on pages 33 -34 etc., and have search through it.

All the settings are correct so far but I'll keep reading. 

Chipstar also has said he has some patches that are doing the same thing.

Perhaps the Mystery continues eh?

V.T.  8)



Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: philflood on March 06, 2008, 11:47:52 AM
There are two possibilities that I can think of, and there are probably more that I can't think of.

1) If you try to write to the location of a factory patch, you will not be able to change the settings. You would need to save the patch as a User patch in order to save the settings.

2) It is possible that you have activated one of the global settings that always make a controller cuase a parameter to function a certian way. Below is a edit of instructions I received from VanceG on this issue

For a FEW features (VERY FEW) there is a way to force a specific physical controller to ALWAYS control a specific parameter on EVERY preset, no matter what (no programming of each preset required).

In the editor software, go into the Sytstem/MIDI/USB/VLINK section, then click on the CTL button over on the right. This brings you to the System Control Assign page. Here you can set assignments for the FC-300 pedals and switches which will override those which are made in each patch. 

There are only a limited number of controller destinations that you can do this with, and they are pretty generic, such as "patch level, Wah, Guitar Tone, Volume" etc.  But this still might help in some cases. For example, I use this to universally define what switch is doing my Tap Tempo and Volume. (end of quote from VanceG)

One of these options may be causing the guitar normal pickups to reset to zero.
Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: Virtual Tone on March 06, 2008, 01:20:41 PM
Thanks philflood for your reply!

I am saving it to the USER patches (001 thru 200).  It's the oddest thing cause I do the following.

1.  Select Modeling Type A and/or B

2.  Scroll 6 over to MIX LEVEL (COSM 25 and NORMAL PU 75) or whatever.

3.  Save the preset by hitting WRITE twice.

4.  And then I can blend the NORMAL PU using my guitars volume with the VG in the MID position of the toggle.

Now... if I want just the NORMAL PU only with the toggle up, you have to have the PATCH LEVEL knob that's 1 inch to the left of the GLOBAL knob turn up to hear it.

However.. I  just realized that this isn't just my PU going thru the up position but it's also the COSM as well!   :o

Ah well... the mystery continues. ;)

For me... it really isn't worth spending hours upon hours trying to figure it out.  I'll just play the VG and the blended PU in the MID position and be done with it for now. 

If I want to cut the guitar PU's only, I'll just run it thru the VG without the 13pin or a amp or something.

If I every figure it out down the road (or if someone else does) then of course we'll share with the forum!

Cheers to all for your help! (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.updatexp.com%2Fimage-files%2Fbeer_mug.gif&hash=ff2ee177552e6c92d5cbb18feefdbbc91dafc044)

V.T.  8)

NOW... TIME TO JAM!!! (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffc02.deviantart.com%2Ffs26%2Ff%2F2008%2F032%2Ff%2F8%2FGuitar_Emoticon_by_satsukichan.gif&hash=9b98004460398b8ebc0a63c3ffd574c00fa07770)
Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: Elantric on December 06, 2015, 08:21:24 AM

How to use Normal PU sounds and make the GK-3 3-way switch work with the VG-99

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=16759.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=16759.0)

Next post is related to the above,
* Roland US-20 A/B Selector BUG (Importance of GK-VOL Assignment)
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2246.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2246.0)
Title: Re: VG-99 - Normal PU sound using GK-3 & VG-99
Post by: admin on August 08, 2021, 10:12:17 AM
Read VG-99 Workshop #2
VG-99 WORKSHOP 02: PICKUP SETTINGS
This booklet gives you the lowdown on using a divided pickup with the VG-99, including the Roland GK-3 and third-party piezo-type systems. Using your guitar's normal pickups is covered as well

https://www.roland.com/global/support/by_product/vg-99/support_documents/ce414af6-0004-495a-a006-391551ca1bb8/