Looking for a Guitar Synth

Started by PeterPan8, October 30, 2016, 02:06:20 PM

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gumtown

#100
Watts compared to loudness is not a linear scale.
for a loudness to be twice as much from 10 watts, you would need 100 watts to be twice as loud.
So the difference between a 10 watt amp and a 20 watt amp is very minimal.

For home use, maybe try plugging the equipment into the Aux/line input of a home stereo, and see if that works for you for low level listening.
If you already have a home stereo setup, it won't cost any extra to try it, then gauge for yourself what the next step will be for playing out.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Rhcole

Or heck, turn the volume down at home! Many amplifiers offer this useful feature!

PeterPan8

Oh.... I never thought of that  :P

My real question is: Should I go for an amp that would be too much for my needs?
Would a 20-watt (for living room use) would be good enough, or in the case where (once or twice a year) I play in a larger room, should I go for a 80-watt amp?  For me, it's one or the other, not both!

Brak(E)man

Quote from: PeterPan8 on November 29, 2016, 08:34:47 AM
Oh.... I never thought of that  :P

My real question is: Should I go for an amp that would be too much for my needs?
Would a 20-watt (for living room use) would be good enough, or in the case where (once or twice a year) I play in a larger room, should I go for a 80-watt amp?  For me, it's one or the other, not both!

The get full use ( sounds) of the synths and looper and if you're going to use a guitar amp simulator like guitarrig
You should get full range and stereo.
Why not start with headphones frst until you get the hang of it ?
And I'm asking myself why you would go with FTP as a first choice
when you can get guitar modeler and amp modeler + Fx and Midi and a soundcard in one box ( read GP 10 ) ?
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

Rhcole

With our kinds of music a larger amp actually sounds better even turned down- bigger speaker, more tone flexibility, more amp headroom. So, I'd rather have an 80 watt amp in my bedroom than a 20 watt unless I was pushed for space.

I am assuming of course that we are talking classical guitar and synths not Metallica.

PeterPan8

#105
@RHcole: Good points! I'll probably go with something close to a 80 watt amp. Thanks for your input!

@Brak(E)man: If you read my first post, you'll see why I don't want to go with something like GP-10. That's a "guitar" fx unit, not a synth which could output sampling "real" sounds, like piano, violin, choirs, etc.

I've played classical guitar for more than 40 years, and got tired of the restricted way of playing. (Have you ever tried to jam on a Beethoven or Bach track?) My repertoire has since expanded to jazz. I don't play any keyboards, and wanted to enrich my playing style. That's when I found out about the TriplePlay.

I'm all acoustic at the moment, so I need to get a new electric guitar +synth. So, instead of getting two separate units, why not get all-in-one, like the Godin Session Custom (includes FTP). That way I'm saving more than $500 by getting the FTP in the guitar itself.

Now, I have to find a good amp, and thanks for many input on this forum, I think I know what to get. My other important step is to get a laptop computer to work with FTP.

I'm getting there... slowly but surely!

Just hope my Santa Claus wife will bring something nice under the tree this year  ;D

Elantric

#106
QuoteThat (GP-10) is not a synth which could output sampling "real" sounds, like piano, violin, choirs, etc.

Technically neither is the Fishman Tripleplay - Tripleplay is simply a Guitar to MIDI  Controller  - which the GP-10 (among its many features, the GP-10 performs nearly as well. Using my Macbook Pro comparing FTP vs GP-10 as Guitar to MIDI Controller, the GP-10  is just slightly higher latency in the low E & A strings, and same performance on the other 4.

Vernon Reid concurs with my GP-10 assessment in his GP10 review

read
Boss GP-10 F.A.Q.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11796.msg85343#msg85343

   

PeterPan8

I didn't read enough about the GP-10. Could it interface with sampling softwares (like those included with FTP)?

Here's a video of things I could play (among others) using FTP with harpsichord sampling (using Logic Pro X):

Brak(E)man

#108
Quote from: PeterPan8 on November 30, 2016, 09:36:21 AM
@RHcole: Good points! I'll probably go with something close to a 80 watt amp. Thanks for your input!

@Brak(E)man: If you read my first post, you'll see why I don't want to go with something like GP-10. That's a "guitar" fx unit, not a synth which could output sampling "real" sounds, like piano, violin, choirs, etc.

I've played classical guitar for more than 40 years, and got tired of the restricted way of playing. (Have you ever tried to jam on a Beethoven or Bach track?) My repertoire has since expanded to jazz. I don't play any keyboards, and wanted to enrich my playing style. That's when I found out about the TriplePlay.

I'm all acoustic at the moment, so I need to get a new electric guitar +synth. So, instead of getting two separate units, why not get all-in-one, like the Godin Session Custom (includes FTP). That way I'm saving more than $500 by getting the FTP in the guitar itself.

Now, I have to find a good amp, and thanks for many input on this forum, I think I know what to get. My other important step is to get a laptop computer to work with FTP.

I'm getting there... slowly but surely!

Just hope my Santa Claus wife will bring something nice under the tree this year  ;D

I have played classical music and classical contemporary music as well as most everything else inluding jazz , worldmusic , folk music ,  theatre music, film scores , blues , rock , ragas, maqams etc etc and I have jammed on both Bach and Bethoven actually :) 

I can say this about amps , you want full range and stereo !!!!

Quote from: PeterPan8 on November 30, 2016, 09:57:52 AM
I didn't read enough about the GP-10. Could it interface with sampling softwares (like those included with FTP)?

Here's a video of things I could play (among others) using FTP with harpsichord sampling (using Logic Pro X):


Yes it can !!
It can use midi the same way as FTP except its not wireless so you need a USB chord.
You can play any sampling or synthesiser software. Most Daws comes with that and you can tailor
Your needs as you go


On top of that it's a USB soundcard for your guitar signal
so you can loop that as well as the synth and sampling sounds
with a software looper

And you have all the possible guitar and amp simulations and fx in that box
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

Elantric

#109
Yes

Explains why Boss GP-10 is popular here

Using GP-10 with Windows PC or Macintosh you get :

* Low latency Guitar Audio interface with Stereo output  ( replaces the Audio Interface  in the Fishman Tripleplay diagram)
* Guitar to MIDI conversion - using Roland's latest generation
* Allows you to use any guitar with a hex pickup

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=19.0

- similar to FTP, but IMHO as a classical player you may feel more comfortable playing a Nylon String Guitar vs a Strat  / Tele type steel string guitar ( Godin Session Tripleplay)


I'll add the secret weapon of the GP-10 is the computer "sees" the GP-10 as an 8 channel audio input device, where you can record each string on separate audio tracks on your DAW software of choice.

If it were me, Id get a gently used Macbook Pro and run Apple Logic-X  or Apple Mainstage- and you get plenty of sound libraries to trigger with your new Guitar to MIDI controller

But if you like to gamble and enjoy risks and problem solving  -

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=14612.0
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=17605.msg140739#msg140739
go PC, then use the ( Digital Audio Workstation) DAW app that you can wrap your brain around and prefer - Reaper is popular, Presonus Studio One, , Cubase, Ableton Live, all the way to Protools 12

a DAW app does many tasks  - as this is the "VSTi/AU" plug in Host - where you assign what PCM Orchestral instrument VSTi/AU you want to trigger for live performance
 
But other live VSTI Host software are : Console, (japan)

SensoMusic Hollyhock,
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=6296.0

Cantabile
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8611.0

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=20.0

Apple Mainstage
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=184.0


But many here like Godins and I find the LGX-SA works very well

But so does a Godin MultiAC SA Nylon String with 13 pin output.

or use any steel string guitar with a professionally installed Roland GK-3A, or locate a Fender / Roland GC-1 ( Strat) with internal Roland GK pickup and 13 pin output.
 

These are the final days for important "deals"  - I see the same Native Instruments Komplete Elements bundle that comes with FTP is on sale for $19.99 at Sweetwater sound in Indiana right now


But there are many roads that lead to your goals






and for an amp - a pair of small powered PA cabs work ( Alto TS110, TS112, Yamaha DXR10, or if you need battery power - Roland Cube Street EX model ( not Roland Cube Street)   

drbill

If you just want to trigger synths live, MainStage is a no-brainer purchase to get access to all of Logic's excellent instruments for a pittance.
GP-10, KPA
BM i2.13p, '76 Les Paul Deluxe w/GK-3, MiM RRS, Ibanez RG420GK, Charvel strat copy w/GK-2a, FTP

Elantric

QuoteIf you just want to trigger synths live, MainStage is a no-brainer purchase to get access to all of Logic's excellent instruments for a pittance.

Correct!
Totally forgot about Mainstage - $29.99  - what a bargain!
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/mainstage-3/id634159523?mt=12

Elantric

If I'm working on the road on a song demos - I carry my 2011 Macbook Pro, and use 24 bit @ 44.1kHz as my recording format in my DAW ( Typically Logic-X these days)  - at Home for band recordings I'll use a Focusrite 18i20 + ADA-8200 to obtain 16 XLR Mic Inputs and tracks, but on the road I will use the Boss GP-10 instead of the FocusRite 18i20 - and overdub  / record new Guitar parts at 24 bit @ 44.1kHz , and monitoring prior recorded tracks ( recorded with other Audio Interfaces) using the GP-10 feeding a pair of Headphones in a hotel room.

I often swap my Audio Interface countless times while working on a long range project on my Computer DAW. 
     
Since 2007 most Pro Music Gear from Roland provides decent 24bit A/D and D/A and 24 Bit USB Recording at 44.1kHz ( Roland VG-99, GR-55, Boss GP-10, BR-80 Micro BR, GT-100, GT-001)

The 24 bit high quality AKM A/D, D/A High end Audio CODEC IC's  that most manufacturers dropped in price of the past 15 years

Audio IC's that once sold for $50 each in 2001 are now under $5 each in 2015

Roland uses AK5357 24bit A/D with 102dB Dynamic Range  in GT-001 and GP-10

http://www.akm.com/akm/en/file/datasheet/AK5357VT.pdf

These run $1.50 each
http://www.findchips.com/search/AK5357VT

This means latest Roland / Boss gear also works as a high-quality USB outboard Audio interface

The Zoom gear in 2015 is still stuck at 16 bit USB recording - part of why i prefer Roland   

PeterPan8

Well, after I read the last few posts, I guess it's really "back to square one" for me!

When I started this post, I thought (in my acoustic mind), that there was only one or two tools which I could choose from to play synthesizer on the guitar, like the Fishman TriplePlay and the Roland GR-55. But as you say in English, "I opened a can of worms!" or a Pandora box (more French!)  :)

My goals are quite simple: I want to be able to play different sounds on the guitar, like piano, violins, bass, voices (choir), etc. Plus, be able to play different tuning, DADGAD among others, without having to modify my guitar.

As I said earlier, I only have acoustic guitars (classical and jazz). Hence, I need to get an electric guitar. And don't want a hollobody for the reasons Elantric pointed out earlier.

From all the posts I've read so far, here is what I think I should get:

- An electric guitar that already has a synth pickup installed (I don't want to install something separate like a GK-3)
   Godin and Fender has that, anything else?
- A USB Midi controller, GP-10 or some other gizmo ???
- A laptop for sampling sounds, controlling software, etc.
- An amp system.

It seems that I'm repeating myself, but to tell you the truth, the last few posts totally confused me.

PS: Maybe I should stop all this and stay on acoustic  :-\

Elantric

As you gain experience, Be prepared to dive into the rabbit hole here ;)

But this thread still contains all the best advice for December 2016 as a handy reference
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=19429.0

I say try a Boss GP-10

GP-10 FAQ
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11796.msg85343#msg85343

PeterPan8

I'm starting to read more about the GP-10. It seems good to do what I want, my only problem is the price.
In Canada, it's around $500 (CAN), and I thought I could avoid that expense since I would probably need to get a laptop on top of that.

The bill is adding up, and I still don't have anything under the tree!

Elantric


Rhcole

Peter,

Part of what makes your circumstances tricky is that what you are asking for is not as simple as it appears on the surface, meaning:
1. You want sampled instruments- piano, strings, etc.
2. You want to digitally change tunings
3. You want an amp that sounds good for all and that can cover 100 people

Any one of those by itself is not so big a deal, but combine them all and it begins to require some skill to configure. The amp is the easiest part, you can put that aside for the moment.

The digital alternate tunings push you into the realm of only a handful of choices. The FTP likely gets eliminated because it is not about reproducing the guitar sound, only controlling synths.

We can spec this out for you, but to the extent you can compromise on any of the above it broadens choices and lowers costs. So, for example, if you could live without digital tuning then the FTP becomes a simple choice. OR, altered tunings with some synth sounds becomes the GP-10.

Since you are new to this, your imagination is envisioning a result that really requires pretty good technology to reproduce exactly as you imagine it.

whippinpost91850

Had to return the MacBook Pro I ordered , it was presented as a late 2011, but was actually an early 2010... I just ordered a true late 2011 and it will be here on Monday. Excited again

aliensporebomb

#119
Then to muddy the waters just a bit:

This track is me playing my guitar live with GK3 into a VG-99 with it connected via USB to my Mac (MIDI over USB) and triggering separate softsynths on each string:


Yes it's possible. 

You could actually do a similar thing with the GK-10. 



My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

Brak(E)man

#120
Quote from: PeterPan8 on December 01, 2016, 01:25:50 PM
I'm starting to read more about the GP-10. It seems good to do what I want, my only problem is the price.
In Canada, it's around $500 (CAN), and I thought I could avoid that expense since I would probably need to get a laptop on top of that.

The bill is adding up, and I still don't have anything under the tree!

Your first choice FTP and a USB soundcard can't be cheaper ?
with GP 10 you won't have to get a soundcard since GP 10 works just fine.
So you're saving that expense , and as said look for a used one .
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

aliensporebomb

#121
Agreed.  I got my GP-10 for US $240 used and it hadn't been used much (still looks "new") and none of the factory presets had been modified at all.  Deals can be had if you search.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

Elantric

#122
QuoteDropping $3000 dollars to see if you might like the technology is not a smart move
Agreed


Roland GR-33 $99
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Roland-GR-33-Guitar-Synth-/112216648104?hash=item1a20a229a8:g:b6kAAOSwB09YONQQ

Godin Multiac ACS SA $690
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Godin-Multiac-ACS-SA-Nylon-/272467216311?hash=item3f704fc7b7:g:YvoAAOSwj85YOyw3

But if you want to explore MIDI Guitar at extreme low cost - just start with any electric guitar  and a Audio interface for the computer you are typing your VGuitarforums posts on (assuming you own one and not at a public Library)  and feed

Jam Origin  MIDI Guitar software and use the demo of Reaper or Studio One or N-Track Studio to trigger sounds 


https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=7530.0


Elantric

https://slickdeals.net/f/9471299-klipsch-promedia-2-1-speaker-system-w-subwoofer-110-free-shipping?src=featured-12671
BuyDig has Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 Speaker System w/ Subwoofer (KLIPSCH PRO) on sale for $149.95 - $40 w/ coupon code PROMEDIA = $109.95. Shipping is free.



Brak(E)man

Quote from: Elantric on December 02, 2016, 09:08:30 AM

But if you want to explore MIDI Guitar at extreme low cost - just start with any electric guitar  and a Audio interface for you computer you are typing your VGuitarforums posts on (assuming you own one and not at a public Library)  and feed Jam Origin  MIDI Guitar software and use the demo of Reaper or Studio One or N-Track Studio to trigger sounds 



I use one of these as USB soundcard with GuitarRig and JamOrigin MidiGuitar
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Behringer/Guitar-Link-UCG102-USB-Interface.gc?
works just fine for me, low latency , sound quality fine  $ 40
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch