GR-55 - Building a Patch Library for the GR55

Started by Toby Krebs, June 13, 2013, 07:38:16 AM

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Toby Krebs

For anyone coming from using Line6-Digitech-Zoom etc...and jumping into the GR55 hoping to buy one, download 40 patches and immediately gig with it I am here to tell you that that probably wont happen and can lead to frustration. The GR55 is a completely different animal from any Line 6 etc.. unit and must be customized for the user. Instant gratification is not available using the GR55. I know as I have spent many many hours getting it into gigging  shape (3 years now I have owned it). I am posting this because yesterday I spoke to a gentlemen on the phone interested in getting into V guitar and possibly the GR55. He assumed that he could download Gundys' Heroes patches and take the thing out and gig it . With a POD you can. I bought my POD HD300 and gigged it successfully after only having it 3 days no problem. With the GR55 we have guitar models-amp models-GK pickups-lots of deep parameters-PCM(keyboard)tones etc....to deal with. The results if you put the time in can be very good. But you have to put the time in even if you download every good patch on this site. I think every guitarist jumping in to the GR55 needs to know this and I am posting this as a kind of reinforcement to what others with experience have shared.Lots of people buying these units right now and that is a very good thing. After talking to the staff at my local Guitar Center about the GR55(they are the ones who sell it) I realized that misinformation and promises are being used to sell this product and we all know Roland wont do anything to help the situation. The point I am making here is that you will have to build your own patch library to really have success with the GR55.  So ask questions-be patient-experiment and remember-Trial and Error are your best friend.

Deus02

#1
Quote from: Toby Krebs on June 13, 2013, 07:38:16 AM
For anyone coming from using Line6-Digitech-Zoom etc...and jumping into the GR55 hoping to buy one, download 40 patches and immediately gig with it I am here to tell you that that probably wont happen and can lead to frustration. The GR55 is a completely different animal from any Line 6 etc.. unit and must be customized for the user. Instant gratification is not available using the GR55. I know as I have spent many many hours getting it into gigging  shape (3 years now I have owned it). I am posting this because yesterday I spoke to a gentlemen on the phone interested in getting into V guitar and possibly the GR55. He assumed that he could download Gundys' Heroes patches and take the thing out and gig it . With a POD you can. I bought my POD HD300 and gigged it successfully after only having it 3 days no problem. With the GR55 we have guitar models-amp models-GK pickups-lots of deep parameters-PCM(keyboard)tones etc....to deal with. The results if you put the time in can be very good. But you have to put the time in even if you download every good patch on this site. I think every guitarist jumping in to the GR55 needs to know this and I am posting this as a kind of reinforcement to what others with experience have shared.Lots of people buying these units right now and that is a very good thing. After talking to the staff at my local Guitar Center about the GR55(they are the ones who sell it) I realized that misinformation and promises are being used to sell this product and we all know Roland wont do anything to help the situation. The point I am making here is that you will have to build your own patch library to really have success with the GR55.  So ask questions-be patient-experiment and remember-Trial and Error are your best friend.

I fully concur with your assessment.  I must admit that having and using both the Line 6 and Roland products, the user interface on the Roland products, especially the GR55, can leave much to be desired.  If one is looking for "plug and play" right away to get the sounds exactly the way you want them, forget it!  Not everyone likes to tinker and experiment and I guess that is why some give up on the units.   Having said that, as everyone knows these are quite complicated essentially computer based devices that offer the user an immense library of sounds and possibilities that, especially for the purchase price, not that many years ago, would have been a figment of someone's imagination.

As stated, patience, experimentation, trying different permutations and combinations of sounds will, the vast majority of the time,  result in great rewards. 




Elantric

Toby,

I really think you summed up the issues newbies will have jumping into the GR-55.

I just added it to the top of the GR-55 Top Things to Know thread: 

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4006.msg27121#msg27121

QuoteFor anyone coming from using Line6-Digitech-Zoom etc...and jumping into the GR55 hoping to buy one, download 40 patches and immediately gig with it I am here to tell you that that probably wont happen and can lead to frustration. The GR55 is a completely different animal from any Line 6 etc.. unit and must be customized for the user. Instant gratification is not available using the GR55. I know as I have spent many many hours getting it into gigging  shape (3 years now I have owned it). I am posting this because yesterday I spoke to a gentlemen on the phone interested in getting into V guitar and possibly the GR55. He assumed that he could download Gundys' Heroes patches and take the thing out and gig it . With a POD you can. I bought my POD HD300 and gigged it successfully after only having it 3 days no problem. With the GR55 we have guitar models-amp models-GK pickups-lots of deep parameters-PCM(keyboard)tones etc....to deal with. The results if you put the time in can be very good. But you have to put the time in even if you download every good patch on this site. I think every guitarist jumping in to the GR55 needs to know this and I am posting this as a kind of reinforcement to what others with experience have shared.Lots of people buying these units right now and that is a very good thing. After talking to the staff at my local Guitar Center about the GR55(they are the ones who sell it) I realized that misinformation and promises are being used to sell this product and we all know Roland wont do anything to help the situation. The point I am making here is that you will have to build your own patch library to really have success with the GR55.  So ask questions-be patient-experiment and remember-Trial and Error are your best friend.

ianridge

Totally agree with your comments Toby. I've had mine 18 months and it's only in the last few months that I've really got the sounds where I want them and can dial them in reasonably quickly.

That said it's a great tool and I'm more than happy to use this standalone in the 2 bands I'm playing in.

The other key issue is getting the right amp solution that works for you and then dialling in the sounds to match that amp. My amp blew up before a gig and I had to reset the sounds to match another amp. I've now got an Atomic CLR and think in future I'd just feed into the PA if there was a problem.

The forum is great. It was the reason I got the GR55 in the first place and it's the reason I can now use it.

whippinpost91850

Toby, I think you nailed it about the frustration some have with jumping to the GR55. I've ghad mine for nearly 3yrs and learn something new all the time to make it easier. Way to go . This should be added to the top things to know about the GR55

whippinpost91850

Ianridge, How do you like the CLR with the GR55? I'm on the list and hope to have it in a couple of weeks. I'll be using it with my KPA and GR55. Paul

ianridge

For me the CLR has been great. I play a Godin LGXT through the GR55 and into the CLR. I also use it to amplify my classical guitar which has a fishman pickup.

I have been using the Cube 80XL which has been fine but does not have the power and depth of the CLR. That has been more of a stopgap until I got the right solution. I focused on getting the right FRFR solution and tried the QSC K12 after a few recommendations on this board. I tried it at pretty much full blast in a music shop but it didn't do it for me. It seemed a bit harsh (something others have commented on) though that is a subjective recollection rather than an A/B test with the CLR. The EV ELX 112p was also recommended but I couldn't find anywhere to test it and the difference in price (£200) was not enough to put me off the CLR.

Good things about the CLR:

1) I can get the sounds I want and dial them in quickly. This ranges from nylon guitar to bass patches to strings, brass and heavy rhythm guitar and lead. All sound good and, to my ears, authentic.
2) Volume is good enough for 5 piece at full gig volume. It does cut through and has enough headroom.
3) Dispersion is good. I use it as backline and I and the band could hear myself clearly.
4) Free trial period of 15 days. Not that I needed 15 days to decide.
5) My classical guitar sounds good through it saving me buying a separate acoustic guitar amp. Having played through an AER acoustic amp at an open mic night this week my subjective view is that the CLR sounds better.
6) Service from Tom King at Atomic excellent.
7) I am now realising the full potential of the GR55 (with the assistance of all on this forum which has been invaluable).

Not so good things about the CLR:

1) Weight. But I bought a £12 trolley which means I can move it without putting my back out.

Overall I'm very happy with the CLR. I'm now getting rid of my other amplifiers which are surplus to requirements (Marshall 100w top and 4x12 cab soon to be on ebay).

I'm sure you won't be disappointed whippinpost.


IanRamos

I think that's a VERY important subject that Toby addressed here .

about 95% of the guitarist that had work with amp simulation pedals like Pod's , etc ... WON'T and probably WOULD NEVER EVER BE happy about the COSM sounds in the GR-55 ... is just not on the same league .

I know there's some exceptions , for instance the user Litesnsirens is super happy about his COSM sounds , and a few more in this forum as well ...
Me , i have been dialing the hell out of my GR-55 for about a year and a half , and i only got usable sounds , good enough to gig with the unit , even to record , but when i compare them to my Pod HD sounds or even my Overloud Th2 presets ... there's just a massive gap in quality .

i wanna make clear, cause i don't wanna start an argument , that you can get good COSM sounds out of the GR-55 ( if you put MANY hours on that ) i would even say that you can get sounds almost as good as those of some real amps ...
but then , i know many many guitarist that get a sound with real amps that would never use , and to me they sound like crap , but they're really happy about their sound ...

i guess the point is that you can easily get a guitar tone even better that you would get with a real amp using a Pod HD , and not so with a GR-55 , so if you currently own a Line 6 pedal or similar , keep in mind that most probably the COSM sound will disapoint you , no matter how many presets you download and tweak ...  :-\

mbenigni

Quoteyou can get good COSM sounds out of the GR-55 ( if you put MANY hours on that )

That's a crucial point.  A lot of times when people have an impression that product A sounds better than product B, the reality is that product B is capable a much broader variety of timbres than product A.  But that isn't necessarily a good thing.  The Line 6 stuff is tweaked and polished to sound good according to conventional tastes, and in reference to conventional gear, and as such it sounds good out of the box and it sounds good (almost) no matter how you spin the dials.  By comparison, the GR55 is like a minefield of bad sounds.  I've gotten some really great tones out of it, but there are just so many ways to make it sound bad.  Line 6's approach is to create a delivery system for some really good content; Roland just throws a pile of tools in a box and hands it over.  Sometimes the effects, EQs, etc sound and feel more like math simulation software than amp/effects modelers.

And I continue to be frustrated with how easy it is to cause internal clipping within a GR55 patch.  There's no internal limiting, no metering, and seemingly no headroom.  There's always a solution... it always turns out to be my own fault... but it takes you out of the creative flow.  This is where discrete and/or analog components feel more musical than an all-in-one digital box: the intuitive soft clipping that occurs when you feed one effect or tone generator into the next.

whippinpost91850

Thanks. Tom emailed me today and sounds like I won't have to wait much longer then a week. I have to admit I am getting kind of excited    ( it might just be the GAS)
I know the weight does seem a bit much for the size, but it is all about sound. I'm gonna still do a side by side comparrison to the Mackie DSR12 and the Yamaha DXR10. I tried the Mackie and was pretty impressed and 10 lbs lighter. But feel the CLR is still going to win out. Thanks for youer evaluation. Paul

Cricket

Quote from: mbenigni on June 14, 2013, 09:08:54 AM.....And I continue to be frustrated with how easy it is to cause internal clipping within a GR55 patch.  There's no internal limiting, no metering, and seemingly no headroom.  There's always a solution... it always turns out to be my own fault... but it takes you out of the creative flow.  This is where discrete and/or analog components feel more musical than an all-in-one digital box: the intuitive soft clipping that occurs when you feed one effect or tone generator into the next.

Gotta give you an "amen" on this.   Every single link in the chain on a 55 patch seems to have at least one gain stage.   At least.   

On the other hand, I'm pretty much with Litesnsirens in that I really, really love the 55.   Even so, getting a handle on all those gain stages can be a bit much sometimes.

Jim Wintringham

I got the GR-55 to have more control over the tones than the GR-20 gave me....and it really does have loads of options! In my situation ( Praise & Worship team), I am not switching to a lot of different tones....so I am concentrating on tweeking my six favorites. That may work for other new users also...to start out 'small'...working with a few tones to get the feel for adjustments :)
Roland GR-55
Wechter Pathmaker PM 7354
Brian Moore i91.13 (China)
Zoom G2
Ventris Dual Reverb
Roland kc-300

timepilot

I'd like to comment... I bought the unit because I didn't want to lug a heavy amp anymore. For a working cover band it is perfect! I can layer in keyboard sounds, simulate acoustic sounds, which it does very well with, and yes, maybe the tones aren't exactly like a tube amp, but in mix they sound great! I had the HD 500 and I never really liked the tones when put into a full mix. I make a great paycheck with my GR-55 and it takes me virtually 30 seconds to tear it down...
I will admit that it takes time to get sound perfect, but isn't that part of the fun of owning these? The versatility is amazing, and while it doesn't sound like my Mark V, it fits into a small briefcase!!

Gawwuf

Hmmmm.... I would really like to use the GR55 exclusively... but compared to my POD HD500 and even Guitar Rig 5, I just don't like the GR55 amp sounds. When I A/B the sounds from my other modelers with same amp models the Roland has fallen way short so I haven't dug any deeper.

I currently use the GR55 mainly for synth sounds, enhancements and guitar modeling (the acoustic models sound great for live use!).

You guys make me think I need to spend more time playing with the amp sounds if you are all using it exclusively.
Any suggestions?

I've been selecting same amps, cabs and mics (or as similar as I can get) then play the sounds using an A/B switch the Roland is always my least favorite.