TC Helicon Voicelive3

Started by BackDAWman, February 05, 2014, 01:27:22 PM

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Elantric

Quote. I'm thinking of selling my GR-55, Fender RR Strat, digitech vocalist live 3 and Ditto looper. to get one.

I would write songs for 18 months  - then reconsider summer 2015, when slightly used TC Helicon Voicelive3's sell for $425 or less, because the Voicelive 5 will replace it. TC has been on a fast track with short 18 month lifespan products

ST

#26
Hi Elantric,

Quote from: Elantric on February 11, 2014, 11:06:46 AM
Also know that TC Helicon has released a new version of this same pedal every 18 months - so if you can wait until summer 2015  - the Voicelive 3 can be had for under $500 by then.

Of course you will instead prefer the  latest 2015 era Voicelive4, that is sure to follow.   

From what I can find, the VoiceLive 2 came out in early-mid 2009. Two years later (mid 2011), there was the VoiceLive 2 Extreme that was fundamentally the same box with more internal memory (longer loops) and a revision to the preamp, but I couldn't find any other differences. It was a limited run for Musicans Friend.

And here we are two and a half years later (nearly five since the initial model release) with the VoiceLive 3.  It's not the seven year span we get with the VG gear, but it looks like the cycle time is more than 18 months.

To their credit, they've been really good about software, firmware and preset updates.

In the interim there was the VoiceLive Play GTX - I think that came out mid-2012 and I think that was the first of their devices that had amp models. But it did not come near the VoiceLive 2 for vocal features. I was an early adopter of that one, and I've really enjoyed it.

I've had my VoiceLive 3 for 6 days. It sounds great.

I got it primarily for the guitar processing and the looper.  The guitar processing is for those gigs when I just want straight guitar or the latitude to play my non-GK equipped guitars or just the simplicity of a single device (vs VG-99 + FC-300). 

I don't use the vocal effects or harmony, but I really like the "Adaptive Tone" processing that takes care of Compression, EQ, Gating, and a De-esser.  This is all done dynamically and works stunningly well with different microphones and singers. I've been enjoying this with the VoiceLive Play GTX and I think it may be even better in the VoiceLive 3.

The looper is very interesting. Much more flexible than in the old VoiceLive 2 and the VoiceLive Play GTX.  It's not like anything else I've tried and there is more and less to it to like or not.  Easier to use than the Boss RC30 because you get dedicated buttons for the loop functions.  Much less loop time, (68 minutes total for all tracks).  I had the Boss RC300.  And like the RC300, the VoiceLive 3 has three tracks but a different mindset. I'm still trying to get my head around it. I don't have a sense of how all the differences will have an impact on me.

Still exploring.

ST
VG-99, VG-88, VG-8, Bose L1® Model II

Elantric

Thanks for the input!
And all Voicelive 3 owners - please post your own impressions / review / or gotchas on VoiceLive3 right here in this thread.

mbenigni

Yes, please do post your impressions!  Especially as they firm up with regard to:

QuoteAnd like the RC300, the VoiceLive 3 has three tracks but a different mindset.
My expectation based on the documentation is that the "mindset" of the VL3 will be more in line with my own intuition, vs. the RC series which I always found a little clunky and limiting.  But I'd rather not be proven wrong $800 later.   :o

QuoteI would write songs for 18 months  - then reconsider summer 2015, when slightly used TC Helicon Voicelive3's sell for $425 or less, because the Voicelive 5 will replace it. TC has been on a fast track with short 18 month lifespan products
I think it's always good advice to focus on the actual music over acquiring gear.  But if you're going to buy gear, you have to buy it when you want it/ need it.  The march of technology is such that it's always going to be a losing proposition money-wise, and if you wait too long for that perfect moment to buy, you've also lost a lot of time.

Jimmyward

Quote from: mbenigni on February 14, 2014, 08:52:54 AM
Yes, please do post your impressions!  Especially as they firm up with regard to:

My expectation based on the documentation is that the "mindset" of the VL3 will be more in line with my own intuition, vs. the RC series which I always found a little clunky and limiting.  But I'd rather not be proven wrong $800 later.   :o

I think it's always good advice to focus on the actual music over acquiring gear.  But if you're going to buy gear, you have to buy it when you want it/ need it.  The march of technology is such that it's always going to be a losing proposition money-wise, and if you wait too long for that perfect moment to buy, you've also lost a lot of time.

I placed an add on craigslist. http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/msg/4333123231.html
have not added pictures yet. my question is am i off base as to a fair price for this equipment?

supernicd

#30
It actually looks like you're giving a killer deal to me.

I find pricing to sell equipment by searching eBay.  If you go into advanced search, there is a checkbox to show "Completed Listings."  Search for completed listings on the item you're looking to sell and you'll usually see what a number of them actually sold for in an auction lately.

EDIT:  I misread your Craiglist ad.  I thought you were selling the GR-55 and the RR Strat for $600.  That seemed awfully low.
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

mbenigni

#31
I've been dumping used gear, myself.  Little stuff mainly, but it's starting to add up.  Another couple hundred or so and I'll have accounted for the cost of a VL3.  But there are always other expenses... paying for a new toy and justifying it are two different things.

Still on the fence, but it's probably just a matter of time.  My RC-30 was one of the first things I sold, so I don't have a (hardware) looper in the arsenal at the moment.  If taxes work out in my favor, that'll likely cinch it.

ST

#32
In case you're wondering - it's easy to run the outputs the VG-99 to the VoiceLive 3 Aux input.

VG-99 Main Out Left/Right to  1/8 " stereo to VoiceLive 3 Aux input.

I was able to route this to the looper. Very easy - there's a utility screen for the looper where you can decide what inputs will be recorded by the looper.

Haven't tried it yet but I expect that I can run the VG-99 guitar out to the VoiceLive 3 guitar input so the VoiceLive 3 can sense the key for vocal harmonies.
ST
VG-99, VG-88, VG-8, Bose L1® Model II

jwhitcomb3

I took great interest when this was announced and even put in an order with Sweetwater. But I spent some time on the tc helicon forums while the unit was back ordered, and early adopters have been reporting serious problems with the looper, from timing issues, difficulties with levels, and problems erasing loops. Plus it seems major looping modes are tied to use of a metronome, which makes it a non-starter for me. It was enough to prompt me to cancel my order.

Another problem was the user documentation. It appeared to be written for an audience familiar with earlier versions of the product line, and many basic parameters are just not explained.

Finally, they scaled back on the MIDI control implementation.

I hope they iron out these issues, but I will wait to be sure.

Vade

I've been trying to figure out the best way to use my Triple Play and iPad 3 (iPhone 5) in a mobile rig and ran across the following thread. Would any of you consider using this setup or would you choose an alternate build using the Studio Connect HD or some other interface.

"I would like to know what the best way is (when it comes to audio quality) to use an iPad with a VL3 in a live performance. Next to looping vocals, I just started creating loops from beats/synths that I create with apps on my iPad. I just connect the headphone out to the aux in on my VL3 and record them straight into the looper. I'm wondering if it would be recommended to do the same thing live? For example, if I record a synth bass sound from an iPad app straight into the VL3 looper, is this a decent audio quality for live use? Or do I need an interface? "

"Hi anjelicka,
I'd just use the headphone out and aux in for live shows. As long as you send a decent level from the headphone output, you should be able to get a nice quality signal from the iPad to the VL3. :)
-Craig"

http://support.tc-helicon.com/entries/41481196-Using-iPad-with-VL3-in-live-performance
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

mbenigni

QuoteI took great interest when this was announced and even put in an order with Sweetwater. But I spent some time on the tc helicon forums while the unit was back ordered, and early adopters have been reporting serious problems with the looper...

Thanks for the cautionary advice, Jonathan.  One of the first things I did when I heard about this device was start Googling around for an active forum, for exactly this kind of feedback, but I came up empty.  Would you mind posting a link the forum you visited here?

Vade

Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

mbenigni

Thanks, Vade.  That is a chilling read, considering the looper was the main point of interest for me.  Ah well, you saved me $800... at least for the time being.

Theoretically, all I need is a really great iOS looper, but I haven't found one that fits the bill yet.  I was so excited about Loopy HD, but it's too flaky.  Random delays, controls not responding half the time...  I can't seem to find anyone else complaining so I guess it's just me.  But for me, that counts a lot.  :)

Vade

That looper bug thread was one of the two reasons I didn't order the Voicelive 3 (VL3). The other is that I want to have a solid plan for integrating my iPad and Triple Play into a mobile rig, with redundant backups, and I'm just not confident I've got a truly workable build in mind yet. I'm still interested in the VL3 though and I'm not as troubled by looper bugs as they strike me more as design tradeoffs than actual bugs. Many people seem to be able to integrate VL3's looper into their projects by changing their approach and they seem quite happy with the result. I'm content for now to keep an eye on the VL3 threads, solve a few design issues each day, and continue learning. I'm just getting started with Loopy HD and I'm thinking Bias/Jamup for guitar and Sampletank for synths on iPad. I'm also learning Sonar X3 with integrated Triple Play on PC and that's slow going so far. On top of that I'm trying to seriously upgrade my guitar skills and music theory. I feel like I went out for a stroll in the park and have ended up trying to claw my way up a mountain. In spite of that my Strat, Amp, and Triple Play sounds like heaven and it's pure joy to play. That strikes me as a good start.
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

mbenigni

Yes, it is hard to say just how severe those bugs are when others are getting good results, posting great videos, etc.  Maybe one day I'll get my hands on one in a store and see for myself.  The thing is, for me, looper has to do more than just work - there are plenty of loopers out there that work - I want a looper that's intuitive and seamless for me.  So when a bunch of experienced loopers complain about having to accommodate the looper, I get cold feet.

Otherwise, an iPad into the aux in of the VL3 would probably make for a killer rig, actually.  You could use the TriplePlay and e.g. SampleTank for your synth needs, and round out any blind spots in the VL3 amp tones with Bias.  That was kind of where I was headed until the looper issues came to light (except I'd have used Jam Origin MIDI Guitar instead of Triple Play.)

I'm trying to "upgrade my guitar skills and music theory" as well.  I guess that's always the case, but I'm learning a lot of new music in a hurry this year.  The funny thing is that when it comes time to do that sort of work, I don't generally use much of this high-tech stuff.  A guitar, a cable, and an amp, maybe a recorded track for reference, are enough.  So maybe it's best that I don't get caught up with another distraction just now.

I'll be curious to hear about your experience with Loopy HD.  I keep trying to get on with it - the UI and features are just amazing - but then when I start working it misbehaves and takes out of the moment.  Some of it may be my failing to use the correct synchronization settings, but then there are cases where on-screen controls will just refuse to respond.  All inconsistent and very frustrating.

Elantric

There is another path which is overlooked.

The Latest TC Helicon Voicelive products with USB port actually work as 24 bit USB Audio Interfaces which are USB class compliant and can work with iPad. So you could run Loopy HD or Looptastic IOS apps if desired.

Vade

#41
Quote@I'll be curious to hear about your experience with Loopy HD.  I keep trying to get on with it - the UI and features are just amazing - but then when I start working it misbehaves and takes out of the moment.  Some of it may be my failing to use the correct synchronization settings, but then there are cases where on-screen controls will just refuse to respond.  All inconsistent and very frustrating.
It'll probably be awhile before I can give much feedback on Loopy HD since I just pulled the trigger Elantric's Triple Play/battery/usb hub design last night and some of those parts are going to take a few weeks to get shipped here. I'm assuming you've tried restarting your IOS device, deleting and reloading Loopy HD, and making sure there's little running in the background to stress the cpu when you use Loopy HD? I sure would love to get it working properly.

Quote@The Latest TC Helicon Voicelive products with USB port actually work as 24 bit USB Audio Interfaces which are USB class compliant and can work with iPad. So you could run Loopy HD or Looptastic IOS apps if desired.

I have been thinking about it as well Elantric which is why I posted that info on the VoiveLive 3's (VL3) usb setup in post #10 of this thread. I'll probably take your advice about testing products and head over to Guitar Center to give the VL3 a trial run. I'd really like to have a working IOS setup and use something like VL3 for both variety and backup in case my IOS stuff glitches out, i.e., like when I forget to charge my iPad or some other boneheaded move. I'm hoping to get some sense of the latency in such as build as well. I also need to finish reading that great thread on Bias where you outline some of your rig ideas - so much good info scattered around this forum it's hard to get to it all.
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

mbenigni

QuoteI'm assuming you've tried restarting your IOS device, deleting and reloading Loopy HD, and making sure there's little running in the background to stress the cpu when you use Loopy HD? I sure would love to get it working properly.
Definitely nothing running in the background, and I've definitely tested shortly after a reboot.  I can't say for sure whether I've encountered these problems when running Loopy alone, but I believe I have.  In fact, I think I've found it to be intermittently unresponsive even during the tutorials that explain its features. 

But my typical scenario is Bias -> Loopy HD, which is obviously much more CPU-intensive.  Maybe that's the problem.  I'll try to retest this weekend using an outboard preamp instead.  Lately I've been too busy with meat and potatoes guitar -> amp practice to play with loopers at all.

Vade

@Lately I've been too busy with meat and potatoes guitar -> amp practice to play with loopers at all.

I hear that but I have plenty of time to do other things when my fingers get too sore to practice any more. I have a decent PC DAW so I'm hoping my IOS build won't need one. So I'm looking at amp sims w/effects (Jamup/Bias), synths (SampleTank), vocal effects, and loops running in IAA or Audiobus and I have to wonder if I'm going to be able to add all of that reliably with decent fidelity into an IOS build? If not then it adds another argument for adding a VoiceLive 3 or something equivalent into the rig. I'm thinking I should try to see what I can do with my IOS build before I decide what to add though. Using an iPhone with an iPad or two and combining the signals via the headphone out jacks perhaps? I'm just not sure about it yet and lots more learning and testing to be done. I'll be interested to know what you figure out with Loopy HD when you find the time to do some exploring.
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

mbenigni

QuoteI hear that but I have plenty of time to do other things when my fingers get too sore to practice any more.

That's when I change diapers, or go to work, or - occasionally - sleep.  ;) 

I'll keep you posted on Loopy HD.

Vade



Craig

TC Helicon



We've been working on some improvements to the "hiccup", crossfade and the sync issues with Smart/MET OFF. We're making some really good progress with the feel of the looper, so it's definitely making headway based on all the input here. I'm not exactly sure when I'll be able to shoot you guys a release, but I should have more information tomorrow or after the weekend.

Cheers,
Craig

February 27, 2014 18:33


http://support.tc-helicon.com/entries/39368033-Voicelive-3-Looper-Bugs-?page=2
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

big_jan

It's a neat musical gear. Simple interface when compared to the GR55. Does most what it promises.
Some glitches here and there on the looper but they do acknowledge the work being done on the firmware.

You can actually email/talk to a person about your questions and you get answers :)

A third party editor being done by a developer. The voice and guitar sound are neat and can save a lot of footprint.
The IEM offering is also a cool feature.  Just had it for a few days and weekend is coming. Will tell more :)

Side by side with a VG or GR - wow....

Vade

http://support.tc-helicon.com/entries/58455837-VoiceLive-3-Looper-Update-BETA-Firmware-Available-to-Test

Hi All,
Here we are, finally at the BETA stage for our massive looper improvements to VoiceLive 3!
We're really happy with the way things are in this build and think you will be too. There are some feature additions, but 99% of this build (and our efforts for the past 2 months) have been to get the looper to a place where it can be reliably taken to a performance and feels great to use.
Let's set some expectations for the BETA build, so we're all on the same page...
1.   This is a BETA, so it comes with NO support via our regular channels. ALL posts/questions/problems should be posted in this thread, which I will be monitoring.
2.   This is not a place to request features or to complain that we didn't add something you've already requested. We'll be actively looking at a more feature laden update over the summer.
3.   When using the looper, keep in mind that every looper on the market (and boy we tested a lot of them during our work on this update!) has a slightly different "feel" to it. So, play with the timings of your button presses to see what gets you the best result. It's MUCH easier to use now, but like any other looper does have its own personality that you'll have to acclimate to.
I really appreciate everyone's patience on this. You'll see that we've gone from build 70 to build 120 through this process. That's not some randomly selected version number. It's a full 50 builds we've done internally and at private beta to get this thing kicking a$$ for you. :)
To apply the BETA firmware to your VoiceLive 3:
•   Download the firmware. It's attached to this post.
•   Save it somewhere convenient for you to find
•   In VoiceSupport, click Firmware
•   Choose "Load a file manually"
•   Point to the file you downloaded
•   Let the process complete. NEVER REBOOT YOUR UNIT. It will come back to a working state on its own after the update is complete.
•   Press SETUP and navigate to the far right tab "System Info". You can verify you've successfully loaded build 120.
•   Have fun! Kick the firmware around and let us know if you find any issues.
Fixes
•   Looper - Smart Sync logic and timing fixes
•   Looper - Serial Sync logic and timing fixes
•   Looper - Deep optimizations for latency and feel
•   Looper - Prevent double overdub in swap situations and double play in serial situations
•   Looper - Fixed possible audio glitches for several situations
•   Looper - Fixed double overdub in swap-odub B/C
•   Looper - Fixed guitar buttonmap view for loop triggers
•   Looper - Fixed bad memory access when read is removed before io complete
•   Looper - Fixed "almost perfect" smart Set command would create empty loop
•   Looper - Fixed "Ok to lose changes" if only tempo has changed (happened every time you reboot and change loop slots)
•   Looper - Fixed crash after long rec A, rec B, rec C and overdubs then store
•   Looper - Limit continuous overdub time to 1hr
•   Looper - Fixed rapid loop slot change odub/undo could crash
•   UI - Fix infinite loop if going from Guitar Tuner --> Mix page
•   UI - Vocal Level Trim (Vocal Edit Preset Page) no longer mutes vocals when set to minimum value
•   DSP - Fixed Vocal L/R swap after loop recording
Features
•   Looper - Playback position easier to see (larger/wider bar)
•   Looper - Added input and sync mode indicators to the looper screen display
•   Looper - Improved sensitivity of waveform display (less likely to show no waveforms with lower level input)
•   Looper - More accurate tracking of free space available
•   Looper - Added warning for no loop space remaining
•   Looper - Allow smart sync from any loop to any loop (A used to have to be the master)
•   Looper - Show warning if user turns off MET in quantize mode (MET on/mute is required for Quantize to work properly)
•   UI - Added Loop Input options for STEP and Switch3 (watch the video for an explanation of how it works)
•   UI - Added popup for loop input changes via STEP and Switch3
•   UI - Added current Key/Scale display to Home screen
•   UI - Updated USB drive detection
•   UI - Reduce Mixer screen timeout duration
•   UI - Added "speedbump" detent to any parameter with symmetric values. *In english* If the parameter goes equal distances one way and the other, like Pan, it'll stop in the middle now. It makes it much easier to get "back to 0".
•   UI - Added expression pedal vocal level target
•   UI - Store LED now lights when store page is active

Thanks!
Craig
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

jannugimes

Awesome Box! Highly Intriguing!?

mbenigni

Agreed.  Back on my radar now that TC seems to be making strides with the looper.  I'm just waiting to see what customer feedback is like from their forum members.