TC Helicon Voicelive3

Started by BackDAWman, February 05, 2014, 01:27:22 PM

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amplayer

Quote from: Elantric on June 23, 2014, 12:34:49 PM
Same here - I was rather surprised to learn the VoiceLive 3 lacks USB Audio I/O support - I use the 24 bit USB Audio I/O  feature frequently with my VoiceLive Touch 2 to record audio to my Ipad /  Mac /  Windows machines.

Curious:
How have you verified that you're getting 24 bit Audio with this setup?
The difference between 24 bit Audio and good 16 bit Audio is difficult for me to hear.
I'm not sure I could trust my ears to tell me.
I could look at the samples in an editor and see if the low bytes have non-static data, but if I can't tell with my ears, so what?
A well recorded CD still sounds fantastic to me.

Toff.

#126
Bringing a bit more info from the official forums.

Quote from: Ringleader on June 25, 2014, 01:42:23 PM
My quivering trigger finger has been hovering over the buy it now button on a VL3 ever since this FX150 promo was announced. But having just found this post by Craig at TCH, I can finally, confidently, just walk away. No iPad interface for me! :(

http://support.tc-helicon.com/entries/43838907-Voice-Live-3-Midi-Sync

The same day, Craig posted on this other thread they are looking into USB audio.
http://support.tc-helicon.com/entries/56122578-Issues-Requests-VL3-

Quote
I'm not an expert in the way the signals go through the box, but I know it's pretty complex. Some paths are serial, while others are parallel. Then, there's some interaction between layers for info like NaturalPlay etc.

As far as I'm aware, Guitar, Vocal and Loop (along with Aux, Monitor, Metronome and RoomSense) all eventually arrive at an "output mixer" which puts all the bits and pieces into the various outputs based on the Mix page settings and which jacks are currently plugged in.

USB audio is probably our top-requested feature right now, so it's being looked at. It's not impossible, just much different than VL2 and our other products because VL3 runs on a completely different platform than the others.

Here's the most up-to-date VL3 signal routing diagram I have. It might not be 100% accurate, but it should give you a pretty good idea of things.


If and when it will happen, it will certainly only be 16bit 44.1/48K, but for my live requirements that would suffice - This is a LIVE unit. I rarely record using my live gear anyway.
Their position seems to be the same with regards to the bitrate and that's how they justify their choice.
http://support.tc-helicon.com/entries/43838907-Voice-Live-3-Midi-Sync

Quote
You can easily get whatever bitrate and depth you want by simply using the XLR outs on VL3 into a recording interface. USB will only ever be 16bit 44.1/48K if we implement it.

I always suggest people use a "real" interface if they're doing serious recording with a VL3. USB at 16/44.1 is totally usable for SNR in all but the most ridiculously good listening environments, so it covers a lot of people. If you're in golden-ears land, then you likely have all manner of ways to connect a couple of XLR's to your recording rig anyway.

What do you reckon guys?

BTW, I have attached the signal flow chart of the VL3 to this thread.
@Mods, is there a better place to upload this and the Sysex manual (like you do with the VGuitar documentation for instance) or is here fine?

Musical regards,

Toff.

Godin nylon ACS special edition (Light Burst Quilted Leaftop), Taylor T5 Classic, Fishman Triple Play, Roland GR-20, Roland GR-55, TC-Helicon VoiceLive 3, Digitech Vocalist Live5, iConnectMidi2+

amplayer

I would like to provide an update on my experience with VL3.
Originally, I wrote that I wasn't sure if I trusted it.  This was due to some initial problems I had with the unit.
At first there was problems with needing to boot it more than once, and it once switched patches on me.
However, since then, I have had zero problems with VL3.   I have used it live a few times and it has performed flawlessly.  The dual mono XLR output feature is golden for singing and playing acoustic guitar.  No amps needed!

I wish I could've gotten a free FX150 with mine.
The VL3 power supply is WAY too short.
The VL3 takes a LONG time to boot up.  My Windows 8.1 laptop boots WAY faster than the VL3 does.
Other than these minor gripes, I'm pretty happy with it.
IMHO, the sound quality and features of VL3 provide a really high bang for the buck factor.
It's hard for me to even imagine why they need to give away an FX150 to sell these.

I understand why the lack of USB recording is a deal breaker for some of you.
For me, it isn't.  I only use this thing in a live setting, and I don't try to incorporate a computer.
If they did add USB recording, I'd be totally fine with 16-bit 44.1/48 KHz.

If I ever do incorporate a computer for playing live, I would need the VL3 to tempo sync with the computer.
I'm not sure the status of whether clock sync is being worked on, but it would be nice to have.

Ringleader

The VL3 promo is very tempting but I let my eBay best offer counteroffer expire this morning so that's that. I'm just not confident that I'll love the guitar models, and the USB thing. And If a GTX can't fix my singing, I doubt the VL3 will be able to fix it either.  ;D

amplayer

Quote from: Ringleader on June 26, 2014, 11:25:39 AM
And If a GTX can't fix my singing, I doubt the VL3 will be able to fix it either.  ;D

I don't have experience with the GTX.  However, the VL3 fixes my crummy voice just by setting pitch correction to 40% as suggested in the manual.  It's pretty unobtrusive at 40% and sounds pretty good.

Neardark72

That USB audio is a consern for me. Not that I'm recording a lot, but I'm afraid the mic input on the laptop ruins the sound of it.
Now I'm wondering if I can plug the VL3 into something that could transfer the sound with the USB.

Wonder how it could sound if I use the GR55 as an audio "USB converter" with a no effect patch.

Elantric

#131
Quote
Wonder how it could sound if I use the GR55 as an audio "USB converter" with a no effect patch.

I Do not recommend that, GR-55 is not a very good USB Audio Interface ( No Stereo Input, High Latency ASIO Drivers, etc) 

Instead  - look for recommendations on the

"Survey of Working Audio Interfaces" thread here:

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8291.0

I would point you towards the Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 (typically new for $150 on ebay)





Neardark72

Thats what I was hoping for.
Thanks Elantric!!!

Vade

Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

Toff.

Quote from: amplayer on June 26, 2014, 09:19:13 AM
The VL3 power supply is WAY too short.
Works the opposite for me, as it fits in the pedaltrain board ^^
Main gripe here is the shape of the Australian one provided - I had to reverse all the mounts so that it could fit.

Quote from: amplayer on June 26, 2014, 09:19:13 AM
The VL3 takes a LONG time to boot up.  My Windows 8.1 laptop boots WAY faster than the VL3 does.
+1 And also to shut down.
I thought the GR-55 was slow, but even with 50 tracks in the USB key (for in-between sets background music) it boots faster than the VL3.

Quote from: amplayer on June 26, 2014, 09:19:13 AM
If they did add USB recording, I'd be totally fine with 16-bit 44.1/48 KHz.
I may be wrong, but given previous history and the few hints from Craig, it should be happening - They definitely felt the need from the community and put that requirement at the top of their list.

Quote from: amplayer on June 26, 2014, 09:19:13 AM
If I ever do incorporate a computer for playing live, I would need the VL3 to tempo sync with the computer.
I'm not sure the status of whether clock sync is being worked on, but it would be nice to have.
They are working on it, it will only be slave to a master clock, not generating one.
I expect this to be already in production and probably bundled in the next update.
Musical regards,

Toff.

Godin nylon ACS special edition (Light Burst Quilted Leaftop), Taylor T5 Classic, Fishman Triple Play, Roland GR-20, Roland GR-55, TC-Helicon VoiceLive 3, Digitech Vocalist Live5, iConnectMidi2+

Neardark72

Vade, that link was awesome. I added it to my favorites so that I can come back to read it more deeply once I have the VL3

Thanks

Vade

#136
You're very welcome Neardark;

Good luck to you with your setup! The usb audio issue isn't really a huge consideration for me as I use my VL3 -> Scarlett 2i2 as an interface into Sonar X3 on my PC. If the VL3 does get usb audio I'll look into it as an alternative to the iPad 3.5 mm headset jack I'm using to feed synths and backing tracks into the VL3 aux input. I've only one significant issue as it stands and that is that I have a slightly annoying high pitched whine when everything is connected and I think it may be because there's a loop.

PC -> iconnectmidi4+ (icm4+) -> ipad3 -> VL3 aux in -> VL3 outs -> Scarlett 2i2 -> PC

I also have a usb hub attached to the icm4+ with Fishman Triple Play dongle and SoftStep 2 connected. I tried using a mini usb to the VL3 for midi commands but that was very noisy and rather than trying to correct it in the icm4+ software I opted to use one of the icm4+ dins out to a VL3 din in which fixed that noise problem.

As to the high pitched whine, everything is on the same electrical outlet so I don't think it's a ground loop issue but I have to disconnect either the iPad, or the PC -> icm4+ usb, to eliminate it. So with my  current build I either lose the iPad functionality or I lose the midi footpad control for Sonar X3. No biggie, I'll keep on wrestling with it til I get it the noises wrung out and then I can start on my SoftStep midi routing. What a long strange trip it's been...


Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

Elantric

#137
Quotethe iPad 3.5 mm headset jack I'm using to feed synths and backing tracks into the VL3 aux input. I have a slightly annoying high pitched whine when everything is connected and I think it may be because there's a loop.

Solve the noise by using one of these for your 3.5mm TRS connection


Basically this Kensington Noise Reducing Aux Audio Cable acts as a stereo Ebtech Hum Reducer - with decent internal audio grade isolation transformers, to eliminate noise due to Ground Loops and RF Noise from DSP Guitar Processors.  A lifesaver when you want to use your Jamup  / BIAS rig with your PA
Must Have Accessory List for Mobile Guitarists
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=10968.0

Vade

#138
Now that looks just about perfect. Once again you've been there and solved that. You really do rock.




P.S. The Kensington unit arrived and it does indeed eliminate the high pitched whine and "data" type noises I was experiencing.
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

tomtheguitarguy

Quote from: Toff. on May 27, 2014, 03:03:27 PM
I only got Onsong because I saw it first in the App Store, and the feedback was extremely positive.

I use it on 2 iPads (a 2 and a 3), so that my drummer can follow wirelessly which song I am selecting (very practical!).
I like many things about it,including the support. But it has a tendency to hang or crash. And the song editing on the iPad is a bit tedious, I actually saved a lot of time by preparing my songs in PDF then converting them, but still a lot of work.

I understand SetListMaker does about everything Onsong can, and more (backing tracks for instance).
I have not tried it myself, because I already transferred all my songs to the onsong format.

At the end of the day, it comes down to what you really need a she yep of support you can get.
Had I known the importance of the latter in this forum, I would have probably got it instead.

But I will be happy to help or support you if you need.

OnSong does backing tracks . . .
http://www.tomtheguitarguy.com ~ http://www.tomcatsband.com
CIJ Blue Floral w/ McVay G Bender
G & L Will Ray Signature ASAT w/ Hipshot B Bender
JTV-69 James Tyler Variax
Fishman TriplePlay ~ Roland GR-55
Dr. Z RxES 2x12
Quilter MicroPro200 10" ~ Quilter Aviator 8" ~ Quilter Steelaire
Bose L1 Classic

Toff.

Well, there you go ;D
Since I do not use that feature, I couldn't care less.
Thanks for correcting me.

I'll go check what the actual differences are between Onsong and SetListMaker - Reading other users on the forum, it seems the latter was better, but I am keen to see why.
Musical regards,

Toff.

Godin nylon ACS special edition (Light Burst Quilted Leaftop), Taylor T5 Classic, Fishman Triple Play, Roland GR-20, Roland GR-55, TC-Helicon VoiceLive 3, Digitech Vocalist Live5, iConnectMidi2+

Toff.

Re. Onsong, it is worth noting a significant amount io updates have been released about 2 weeks ago:
http://onsongapp.com/releases/1.987/
Musical regards,

Toff.

Godin nylon ACS special edition (Light Burst Quilted Leaftop), Taylor T5 Classic, Fishman Triple Play, Roland GR-20, Roland GR-55, TC-Helicon VoiceLive 3, Digitech Vocalist Live5, iConnectMidi2+

Elantric

I will have a TC Helicon Voicelive 3 next week - 6 days before the free FX150 Speaker deal ends


amplayer

Quote from: Elantric on July 24, 2014, 11:53:12 AM
I will have a TC Helicon Voicelive 3 next week - 6 days before the free FX150 Speaker deal ends



Cool!

Please let us know:
A) How you like the FX150
B) How you will use it with GP-10

Also:
I thought the lack of USB Audio Interface was a deal breaker for you.  You changed your mind?
Were you able to get it at less than full MAP?

Elantric

I get a good deal from a TC Helicon Dealer on "New open Box" with full warranty under $550.

My needs evolve, and the free FX150 makes this deal a no brainer.

amplayer

Quote from: Elantric on July 24, 2014, 12:23:06 PM
I get a good deal from a TC Helicon Dealer on "New open Box" with full warranty under $550.

My needs evolve, and the free FX150 makes this deal a no brainer.

Wow.  I agree that deal is a no-brainer.  Congrats.

Vade

#146
I'm glad to know you've got a VL3 coming Elantric and I'll be interested in your test results as well. You're probably already aware of it but there is an issue with some VL3's with threads to follow. You might want to ask your dealer to pretest the unit sent to you to avoid sending the unit in for a warranty repair; which is where my VL3 is as I write this.

The bottom line...

http://support.tc-helicon.com/entries/89552856-Please-clear-statement-from-TC-for-the-Guitar-Noise-problem-

The original thread with a recording I made of the issue linked to Soundcloud at timestamp (July 11, 2014 02:14)

http://support.tc-helicon.com/entries/42310923-Output-noise-when-Effects-are-engaged-and-staticky-sounding-Noise-Gate

Hopefully you'll avoid the problems.

When it comes to testing I'll be interested to see how the Boss GP-10 does with the VL3.

"the zombies bang their decaying hands on mbenigni's windows and doors... '"J-J-J-oin usssss... J-oin us NOW! OPEN YOUR WINDOWsssss... Hiss...'"

Yes...the zombies are scrabbling outside my windows as well and I'll probably pick up a GP-10 if it plays nicely with the VL3.
The GP-10 appears to be a tone monster and it adds functions I didn't think I'd need, but now I'm missing and want, such as quick alt tuning, guitar modeling, and beautifully integrated synths; a nice fit with the features of the VL3.
I see that you're having excellent results with your Godin xtSA (RMC). Since my Triple Play pick-up will fit on the xtSA that's what I'm thinking guitar wise for 13 pin. Enjoy your VL3 and let us know what you think if you get the time.
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

big_jan

Awesome Steve, welcome to the TC/GP world - its a nice combi. I don't use the TC Guitar Effects but interface the GP via aux on the TC.
Let us knowhow it enhances your gigging experience with it. Cheers!

Ringleader

Quote from: Elantric on July 24, 2014, 12:23:06 PM
I get a good deal from a TC Helicon Dealer on "New open Box" with full warranty under $550.

My needs evolve, and the free FX150 makes this deal a no brainer.

Ha I caved the other day and did the same thing. Hoping it will be cool. Even if I only use it for acoustic it is worth it to me.

And Vade is here too, cool! Vade, you answered some questions for me over at TCH forum I am Steven.

Vade

Hey Steven; I was happy to help. Did you ever get your aux path figured out to meet your needs?
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie