GR-55 amp modeling quality

Started by Gaustu, March 25, 2014, 02:29:04 PM

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Gaustu

Hi guys

I would very appreciate your opinions about certain samples after you listen for them on HQ PA.
http://ge0eg.ho.ua/1.wav
http://ge0eg.ho.ua/2.wav
http://ge0eg.ho.ua/3.wav
http://ge0eg.ho.ua/4.wav

What is/are the best natural emulation of the real amp for your opinion?
I will explain my steps later after you say something about this.
Choose the best if it's not a hard task.

Thank you very much

Parker PDF85 modified: Sustainiac, SD TB-4, Piezo Hexpander 13 pin out.
GR-55 mod with 13 din thru, 6 analog outputs D-Sub => Presonus FS Mobile  8 analog inputs.
NI Reactor matchHEX Guitar Framer Ensemble custom.

CodeSmart

This is scary :-X I liked no 2 best.
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

Gaustu

#2
Quote from: CodeSmart on March 25, 2014, 03:49:17 PM
This is scary :-X I liked no 2 best.

WOW! thanks for your input!
But I need more opinions so much. Please don't hesitate. Just your 5 minutes no more.
I'd like to know if you see not a big difference, or you hear a huge one?
Parker PDF85 modified: Sustainiac, SD TB-4, Piezo Hexpander 13 pin out.
GR-55 mod with 13 din thru, 6 analog outputs D-Sub => Presonus FS Mobile  8 analog inputs.
NI Reactor matchHEX Guitar Framer Ensemble custom.

KuRi

No big differences here, but I prefer no 1 and no 4.
no 2 is too... buzzy to me :)

Is this just using gr55 with amp modelling? no mics? I can't get such sounds without amp micing :(

carsonics

1 and 3 sound about the same to me, 2 sounds thinner and 4 sounds the fattest.  I really don't think the general public could tell the difference.

mbenigni


Gaustu

#6
Thank u again.
The blind tests I started with had been caused by my discontent of amp/cab modeling of gr-55. After I switch to NI guitarrig or amplitube I see the significiant progress in more natural amp sounding. But first, I was mistaken thinking that gr-55 amp emulation is worse then g rig or amplitube  emulation.  Comparing only how amps  sound without the following acoustic parts (drivers. & mics emulation) I hear they sound all just great. The problem is in acoustic part emulation in gr-55. In my opinion this is a weakness of it. The path signal goes through the air between driver and mic plays a huge role. Sound waves reflect from sutfaces of mic, driver, other parts and we have a complex picture of interference. This behavior of sound makes a huge impact on thikness, densety and vividness. The first thing comes to mind when to listen to gr55 amp is a "withered" sound in compare to NI grig.
So I decided to use MFX part for adding the  effect which works maximally for emulating the waves interference after amp. When I made some tweaks with PHASER, I liked the result. The settings of phaser may change the overdriven sound much  more then eq or reverb, producing the typical interference character.
I know this is the much subjective matter, one may like withered sound a lot, another likes very different...
Ihope my gr-55 little tweak may be interesting for some who works with heavy/metal guitars.

1 - gr-55 marshall without my tweak
2 - NI guitar rig marshall (I increased highs,so it may feel bussy a  bit)
3 - gr-55 marshall with phaser "mild" settings
4 - gr-55 marshall with brighter phaser settings

Parker PDF85 modified: Sustainiac, SD TB-4, Piezo Hexpander 13 pin out.
GR-55 mod with 13 din thru, 6 analog outputs D-Sub => Presonus FS Mobile  8 analog inputs.
NI Reactor matchHEX Guitar Framer Ensemble custom.

mbenigni

Wow, I would be interested in seeing the specific MFX settings you used.  I think you're onto something here.  I definitely prefer 4 over 1 and 3 - though, oddly enough, I'm not sure I'd choose 3 over 1.  As for Guitar Rig (2), the resonance is too pronounced - almost "poofy" at points.  It's subtle, but I think 4 gets the muscle back without being too resonant.  I'm a big fan of Guitar Rig, though, and I can't help but imagine that it could be tweaked to sound just as good with the right EQ or cabinet impulses or whatever.

Then again, I'm listening through a pair of earbuds, so it's hard to say what I'd get out of a decent pair of monitors.

Elantric

QuoteI'm a big fan of Guitar Rig, though, and I can't help but imagine that it could be tweaked to sound just as good with the right EQ or cabinet impulses or whatever.

I admit GuitarRig 5 (recent version) has much improved. Its a joy to use the RigKontrol3 with my Macbook Pro and use the GR5 looper and backing tracks and not have a giant "Mute" on every patch change mid song (like occurs with my Roland gear when used as audio interface)

And Gaustu is correct - the effectiveness and accuracy of your Cab Simulator will make or break your Tube amp modeler tone

Gaustu

#9
Quote from: mbenigni on March 26, 2014, 10:12:51 AM
Wow, I would be interested in seeing the specific MFX settings you used.

I'm putting three patches right here (because it's not just patches exchange theme).

QuoteI think you're onto something here.  I definitely prefer 4 over 1 and 3 - though, oddly enough, I'm not sure I'd choose 3 over 1.  As for Guitar Rig (2), the resonance is too pronounced - almost "poofy" at points.
It's subtle, but I think 4 gets the muscle back without being too resonant.  I'm a big fan of Guitar Rig, though, and I can't help but imagine that it could be tweaked to sound just as good with the right EQ or cabinet impulses or whatever.

I agree on 100% about GRig. It may be tweaked with some EQ to be not so resonant/poofy.
As forme, GRig5 still wins. And if to pay an attention to much more  settings it has for mics and air blending and Amp settings itself. Some presets of it sounds absolutely the same as real Amps.

And now I see my mistake is that I did not put a separate mono tracks with my sounds only. Because, if to hear it as it is panned, the brain may not percept it clearly.

http://ge0eg.ho.ua/11.wav
http://ge0eg.ho.ua/22.wav
http://ge0eg.ho.ua/33.wav
http://ge0eg.ho.ua/44.wav

Parker PDF85 modified: Sustainiac, SD TB-4, Piezo Hexpander 13 pin out.
GR-55 mod with 13 din thru, 6 analog outputs D-Sub => Presonus FS Mobile  8 analog inputs.
NI Reactor matchHEX Guitar Framer Ensemble custom.

Gaustu

Quote from: Elantric on March 26, 2014, 10:29:35 AM
I admit GuitarRig 5 (recent version) has much improved. Its a joy to use the RigKontrol3 with my Macbook Pro and use the GR5 looper and backing tracks and not have a giant "Mute" on every patch change mid song (like occurs with my Roland gear when used as audio interface)

If they could build in there so awesome working pitch bending (as in GR-55) it would be priceless.
Its Pitch Pedal works ok but not comparable to GR55. and it adds a latency when in a chain.
Parker PDF85 modified: Sustainiac, SD TB-4, Piezo Hexpander 13 pin out.
GR-55 mod with 13 din thru, 6 analog outputs D-Sub => Presonus FS Mobile  8 analog inputs.
NI Reactor matchHEX Guitar Framer Ensemble custom.