GR-55 Amp Modeling - Two thumbs up!

Started by vtgearhead, March 06, 2014, 04:59:53 AM

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vtgearhead

I finally had time to start working with the amp modeling and must say I'm very impressed!  The Marshall emulation actually behaves like a real tube amp in its response to instrument volume changes.  I have the COSM guitar tone volume mapped to the GK rotary control and can easily dial between nice crunchy rhythm sounds and usable overdrive.  This is one area where the Line 6 HD-500 really falls on its face.  In over a year of fighting with it, I was never able to get this type of natural transition. If set for a nice rhythm sound at lower instrument settings the HD-500 gets exponentially louder and raucous when cranked - earning dirty looks from the rest of the band.  The GR-55 gets "just enough" louder and fattens out to a nice classic singing tone. 

The only HD-500 feature I miss is the ability to place effects (primarily compression and wah) ahead of the amplifier emulation.

myksara

IMO- GR55 is excellent allround bang for the buck toy. It suits me perfectly for my covers (I don't do Metal but I think GR55 would do a decent job on that too)
Like they say its all in the fingers/hands...Spend some time with this beast and you will discover stuff that probably will never get you bored.
I have a Line6 JTV69 and find I use the GR55 COSM sounds more. They sound very good to my ears and very much playable.
Now I have not used all the REAL amps or all the REAL guitars, but simply put, if I play the JTV69 (with 2.0 firmware) I get bored easily and switch to my GK3-GR55 combo for hours of fun.

I have always preferred BOSS/Roland over Line6..I have preferred a GT10 over POD X3 live in the past as well..but hey that's me.
Guitars: Ibanez Prestige S5470, Ibanez Jem 7v, Ibanez JS2410, PRS SE Custom24, Cort  Ltd G16, Ibanez RG370Ahmz,
MultiFX: Roland GR55, Zoom 1on, BOSS GT00
Loopers: Digitech trio+, Line 6 JM4
MIDI:, MAudio Axiom24 keyboard, Alesis IO Dock with iPad air 2

imerkat

The match drive is my favorite for the range of dynamics. I do it using inverted assigns on the amp gain and volume and a small range of the guitar volume (100-75). So when you lower the GK rotary control the amp level and guitar volume goes up but the Amp gain goes down. This way it goes from pristine cleans to Hot leads and everything is usable in between.

vtgearhead

Quote from: imerkat on March 06, 2014, 06:32:41 AM
The match drive is my favorite for the range of dynamics. I do it using inverted assigns on the amp gain and volume and a small range of the guitar volume (100-75). So when you lower the GK rotary control the amp level and guitar volume goes up but the Amp gain goes down. This way it goes from pristine cleans to Hot leads and everything is usable in between.

Good idea!  I'll have to play with that a bit.

imerkat

Oh and lowering the Mic level to around 50 yields warmer tones.

vtgearhead

Quote from: imerkat on March 06, 2014, 11:45:56 AM
Oh and lowering the Mic level to around 50 yields warmer tones.

I will fiddle with that also.  But, I am curious why changing the virtual mic level would have any different effect than adjusting the input gain on the first block following the amp.

imerkat

no idea  ??? I used to always keep it at 100 and it's something I picked up from another member here, Toby Krebs, not too long ago and it just sounded warmer and overall sweeter but not a drastic change by any means.

Mrchevy

#7
Quote from: snhirsch on March 06, 2014, 04:59:53 AM
The only HD-500 feature I miss is the ability to place effects (primarily compression and wah) ahead of the amplifier emulation.
Actually you can but the amp choices are not as vast. In the MFX, (which is after the MODULATION in the effects chain) select GUITAR AMP SIM > then you can select the amp you want in that amp sim, then under SPEAKER TYPE, select your choice for that. You will be limited to one, or the other, or any of the other options in the MOD, but you can do it.
Gibson Les Paul Custom
Epi Les Paul Standard
Gibson SG 50's prototype
Squire classic vibe 60's
Epi LP Modern
Epi SG Custom
Martin acoustic

Princeton chorus 210

GT100
GR-55
Helix LT
Waza Air Headphones
Boomerang III

And, a lot of stuff I DON'T need

sixeight

A number of mod effects are placed before the guitar amp. If you select compression, it is switched before the guitar amp always. I haven't checked this with the other mod effects yet.

jwhitcomb3

Quote from: snhirsch on March 07, 2014, 04:45:44 AM
I will fiddle with that also.  But, I am curious why changing the virtual mic level would have any different effect than adjusting the input gain on the first block following the amp.

I've seen a couple of posts about this, but have not heard a difference in tone based on the mic level.

vtgearhead

After a lot of work blasting away in the basement I had a chance to use the GR-55 at rehearsal.  With the Left/Mono output driving a QSC K10 it sounded amazing!  I work with some fussy players and everyone liked the tones.  My soon-to-be-up-for-sale Line 6 HD500 never sounded good through an FRFR system.  In my opinion Roland has just plain done a better job of modeling tube amplifier overload and cabinet impulse response.

When I first started working with the GR-55 I wasn't all the impressed with the Strat emulation, but after hearing it in the mix I find it a bit better than the JTV-69.  Have the GK-3 mounted on my PRS Custom 24 with double-stick at the moment, but I'm planning to move it to a Korean PRS Soapbar II (which I don't mind putting holes in) for permanent installation. 

After hearing so much about the patch-change latency I was expecting problems, but it really isn't too bad if you find the right spot in the arrangement for switching.  The other guitarist in the band loaned me a Rolls Midibuddy which I'm going to hopefully use for patch changes at gigs.  Anyone on the forum have experience with this unit?


vtgearhead

Quote from: sixeight on March 08, 2014, 09:55:33 AM
A number of mod effects are placed before the guitar amp. If you select compression, it is switched before the guitar amp always. I haven't checked this with the other mod effects yet.

Are you sure of that?  It would make sense in the big picture but doesn't agree with any published block diagrams I've seen.  How did you make that determination?

vtgearhead

Quote from: Mrchevy on March 07, 2014, 07:20:17 PM
Actually you can but the amp choices are not as vast. In the MFX, (which is after the MODULATION in the effects chain) select GUITAR AMP SIM > then you can select the amp you want in that amp sim, then under SPEAKER TYPE, select your choice for that. You will be limited to one, or the other, or any of the other options in the MOD, but you can do it.

Thanks for that tip!  It never registered until I looked closely at the signal flow on GR-55 Floorboard.  I would only need that routing to put Wah ahead of Marshall emulation for a Hendrix tune (Watchtower).  Just doesn't sound right after the distortion is introduced.

Bluemusic

White noise...Ok I know it is in some amps but I doubt they modelled that in.  On one particular patch I have set it is really too loud.  I have turned down the gains and tinkered with few other things but I am not finding the culprit...anyone know off the top of their head the best place to start to look for this or had similar situations?

Tek

Spending some time and working with the amps and mics makes a huge difference. I've been able to make some nice tones that sound just as good or better than my Eleven rack.

Elantric

QuoteI've been able to make some nice tones that sound just as good or better than my Eleven rack.

Not a difficult feat IMHO ;)

DeRigueur

Quote from: Tek on March 10, 2014, 05:04:25 PM
Spending some time and working with the amps and mics makes a huge difference. I've been able to make some nice tones that sound just as good or better than my Eleven rack.
What type of tones?  Could you post them in the patch exchange?
Fender GC-1 -- Boss SY-1000 -- Alto TS112A

Tek

Quote from: DeRigueur on March 10, 2014, 06:15:36 PM
What type of tones?  Could you post them in the patch exchange?
Mostly hi-gain lead tones. I'll try to post some this weekend-

Tek

Quote from: Elantric on March 10, 2014, 05:07:48 PM
Not a difficult feat IMHO ;)
Elantric, not a fan of the Eleven Rack?
In all fairness, I've spent a lot more time working with my GR-55 than I have with the 11R.
Once I got over the initial "option anxiety" ;D

Elantric

#19
QuoteElantric, not a fan of the Eleven Rack?
It does not "float my boat" - and my Kemper (and even Positive Grid's BIAS on my iPad) blow away the amp tones in my  Eleven Rack.

I got my Eleven Rack as a bundle specifically to acquire a full copy of Protools 10, which I use a lot, and the Eleven Rack has a nice AES/EBU I/O and a Stereo FX Loop for connecting to other gear. But as an Amp / FX Modeler i find the Eleven Rack has many peers and in 2014 better tones can easily be found elsewhere.   

whippinpost91850

Quote from: Elantric on March 11, 2014, 04:37:02 PM
It does not "float my boat" - and my Kemper (and even Positive Grid's BIAS on my iPad) blow away the amp tones in my  Eleven Rack.

I got my Eleven Rack as a bundle specifically to acquire a full copy of Protools 10, which I use a lot, and the Eleven Rack has a nice AES/EBU I/O and a Stereo FX Loop for connecting to other gear. But as an Amp / FX Modeler i find the Eleven Rack has many peers and in 2014 better tones can easily be found elsewhere.   
Here, I have to agree 110% with Elantric.  personally havent used the tones in my Eleven Rack since I got my Kemper

sixeight

#21
Quote from: snhirsch on March 10, 2014, 04:30:47 AM
Are you sure of that?  It would make sense in the big picture but doesn't agree with any published block diagrams I've seen.  How did you make that determination?

Just by ear. Change the levels on the compressor and the amount of distortion changes. That is only possible if the compressor is switched before the amp.

I have made a seperate post to explain this. Check out https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=10809.0

Bluemusic

I did spend a bit of time in both areas...mic and amp.  That doesn't seem to be the real culprit.  If I get a chance I will post the patch so you guys can hear the amount of "Ocean noise or White noise"..it's pretty intense so I think there is something else going on in this patch.  As it stands the next 3 days are full of practice and performance so I must prioritize for now.  Thanks and see you all on the other side of Sunday.

Elantric

QuoteWhite noise...Ok I know it is in some amps but I doubt they modelled that in.  On one particular patch I have set it is really too loud.  I have turned down the gains and tinkered with few other things but I am not finding the culprit...anyone know off the top of their head the best place to start to look for this or had similar situations?

What is your 13 pin pickup type? Just for reference Modeling Noise on the GR-55 could be traced to the Guitar Model used and also many people forget the type of 13 pin divided PU you have on the Guitar impacts the white noise floor. In my experience Graphtech Ghost has the highest source of white noise and the GR-55 Noise Supressor must be utilized - which kills all dynamic range.

Tek

Quote from: Elantric on March 11, 2014, 04:37:02 PM
It does not "float my boat" - and my Kemper (and even Positive Grid's BIAS on my iPad) blow away the amp tones in my  Eleven Rack.

I got my Eleven Rack as a bundle specifically to acquire a full copy of Protools 10, which I use a lot, and the Eleven Rack has a nice AES/EBU I/O and a Stereo FX Loop for connecting to other gear. But as an Amp / FX Modeler i find the Eleven Rack has many peers and in 2014 better tones can easily be found elsewhere.   

I understand. I, too, purchased it in the Protools bundle. As I said, it has been neglected, I'm spending all my time with the GR55 and finding that I'm not really needing the 11r anyway ;D...