GR-55- Tuning down one half step

Started by Toby Krebs, March 04, 2014, 12:08:07 PM

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Litesnsirens

I play in 3 bands,  2 of which tune to Eb,  the other standard tuning. I tune both of my GC-1s to Eb. For the standard tuning band I have a number of presets setup to pitch my Eb tuned guitars back up to standard tuning.   Works fine for me.  If I had 4 GCs if probably tune separate but I'd rather have a backup that I can just plug in and carry on so I find the 2 that I have the same.

IanRamos

Thanks for the reply Litesnsirens .
that's a genius configuration , how does it track midi wise with the guitars in Eb ? is it the same ?
have you tried it in D ?
nowadays i have all my guitars in D , a whole step down ... if the gr-55 works well with that tunning i'm gonna buy one again just to have it in the studio , for recording the acoustic , bass , etc ...

Elantric

I have no tracking issues on VG-99 / GR-55 when the Guitar is tuned down  (half step ) to Eb or (whole step) to D

kenact

I was playing with some friends the other night. A couple of musicians got up to play a couple of metal songs. Later, someone did mention that it "looked a little weird" watching me play metal through a Behringer acoustic guitar amp.  :)
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GR-55, 33, 30, 20, GI-20, RC-50, US-20, VG-99, VP-7
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IanRamos

Elantric , you actually tried the GR-55 with a guitar tuned a whole step down ? i'm very interested in that .
For some reason i was completely sure that Gr-55 don't work with detuned guitars ... i guess i heard it in some video or something like that ...

Elantric

#30
I work with a songwriter who tunes all guitars down a whole step, and my GR-55 worked fine for me.  ( I was tuned D,G,C,F,A,D)


We have warned that VG-99 / GR-55 users with Baritone Guitars (tuned down two whole steps) to "C" have issues with tracking the lowest notes

IanRamos

Ok cool , thanks .
I don't think i'll ever have the need to tune down 2 whole steps , i think the strings will have too little tension then  and they would not sound good ... but maybe i'm wrong ( i use to think the same about playing 1 step down , but it is the best thing ever , it really makes my guitars sing ) .
Anyway , as long as the GR-55 works fine with only 1 step down ... that actually makes me very happy !
Can't wait to try it !

Elantric

FWIW - When tuning down a whole step (D,G,C,F,A,D)- I used 11-56 gauge strings 

IanRamos

I use 09-42 ... you think that will be a problem ?

Elantric

#34
IMHO  - that will have far less tension and exhibit fret buzz.

I typically use 10-46 - but I always use thicker strings on detuned guitars. Back in 1981 when I first met Stevie Ray and set up his SRV Strat with 13-60 strings, I remember at first thinking (this guy must just play rhythm guitar) then realized he always detuned to Eb,Ab,Gb,Db,Bb,Eb  100% of time!

http://www.premierguitar.com/articles/String_Myths_Part_1   

IanRamos

I don't get any string buzz at all with my 9-42 strings a whole step down ( i thought i will , but i don't ) what worries me is how the GR-55 will track the notes .

Yeah , SRV was a beast , i bet that guy could bend steel bars with his fingers ... he also used massive frets .
I bet that for him tunning his guitar down was a need , i don't think any guitar neck can take that tension for too long ...

Elantric

#36
I was fortunate to work with many important musicians and their instruments when I was Service Manager at Valley Arts Guitar (1980-1986)
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=82.0

It should be apparent  - but SRV like many blues musicians (Albert King) and Hendrix primarily tuned their guitars down a half step to Eb to suit their vocal range. On SRV's '62 Strat with 25.5"scale length, and Dunlop 6100 Jumbo Frets, at the time I worked with him in 1982, he used a custom Ernie Ball Slinky set  13-60




The big reveal with SRV's Strat ( pic above) is the short pieces of heat shrink tubing on each string , to prevent breakage where they emerge at the bridge plate.


Most details are here:
http://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/interview-stevie-ray-vaughans-guitar-tech-rene-martinez-267030   

IanRamos

a very intersting part of that interview with Martinez :
"Even so, the guitar was hard to play, and he would literally be drawing blood from the tips of his fingers. I saw some blood on the guitar one day and I said, 'Hey, are you OK?' And he said, 'Aw, my tips are starting to get cut, you know.'"

this is crazy , specially cause bigger strings don't get you better sound ( Yngwie , Page , Gibbons ... so many play 08's ) , so there's no reason for it !

Me i'm really enjoying playing a whole step down , and if Elixir would make 08's i would play them too instead of the 09's !!
Playing guitar should be as easy as possible , in my opinion ...

Elantric

#38
Glad you found what works for you.

Myself - I can hear the differences in the string gauge - I have better intonation and tone with thicker strings  - and I could never do my Dick Dale surf guitar tone with .008's ! (Id have a flimsy out of tune mess) but thats me.

(Heres a video of my Surf Band - I'm on far right.


My Surf Rig is described here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=10033.msg77743#msg77743

IanRamos


Elantric

QuoteThat sounds really good !
Thanks!

My Surf Rig is described here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=10033.msg77743#msg77743


The gear used  for that Surf Gig was non GK/VG:

I'm on far right playing a GFS Xavier JT-100
http://www.guitarfetish.com/XV-JT100-Offset-Alder-Body-Alnico-JM90-Pickups-pickups-Vintage-Cream-_p_2203.html

http://www.guitarfetish.com/Xaviere-Electric-Guitars_c_116.html

Into a real (non -re-issue) 1963 Fender Tube Reverb unit (once owned by The Strawberry Alarm Clock) most of my "surf tone" happens here)


Then into a Barber Tone Press Compressor
http://www.barberelectronics.com/tonepress.htm


Then into a Boss LS-2 (used only as floor swichable a +6db booster for Solos )


then straight into the Cube 80XL (set to "Black Panel" = Fender Twin Reverb tone)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=734459&Q=&is=REG&A=details


the rear Cube80XL Line Out was fed into the house PA's  Passive Di Box and the channel on the Soundcraft console at SLO Brew in San Luis Obispo was set for Line level.

IanRamos

"I could never do my Dick Dale surf guitar tone with .008's ! (Id have a flimsy out of tune mess)"
i wonder what's the reason for that ...
anyway , i noticed that you use p-90's , how do they compare to a single coil ? you get a very single coil'ish sound out of them .
At the moment i'm going through a process of trying lots of different hum cancelling single coils , and i don't really like the tone of any ...

Elantric

#42
Actually the Xavier JTM-100 employs faithful recreations of 1962 Fender JazzMaster pickups  -GFS Vintage Jazzmaster PU's here:

http://www.guitarfetish.com/GFS-JM90-Vintage-Wound-Jazzmaster-Style-Pickup-White--Bridge-Position_p_1287.html

The neck PU is reverse wound / reverse polarity in respect the the Bridge PU  - so the guitar is humbucking when both PU's are activated


On my recent Gibson SG purchase - I swapped out the stock P90s for Kent Armstrong H90 humbuckers  - and they sound great - just like a real P90 but no hum!
The  Kent Armstrong H90's have no hum - yet all the tone and sound of a P90! I love these PU's
http://www.wdmusic.com/stealth_90_noiseless_p90_neck_black_plastic_cover_hp90nb.html
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=10208.msg77987#msg77987



IanRamos

#43
wow , those guys at Guitarfetish do good stuff ... actually im looking for a humbucker size guitar with a single coil sound ( i really dig the single coils sound , even though i play with lots of distortion ... i'm crazy about Yngwie's tone ) to put in that beast that i'm buying next month :

http://www.thomann.de/es/ibanez_rg550xh_bk.htm

I might try those P-90's recreations ...

mbenigni

1963 Fender Reverb -> Barber Tone Press -> Roland Cube 80 -> House

That is an awesome combination of gear.  Nothing is sacred, use what works.  Cork sniffers move along.   ;D

Interesting that you have your compressor after the reverb.  It makes sense if the compressor is meant to enhance the response of your amp, in so far as that reverb is typically in front of the amp in surf rigs, but most players put their compressors directly after their guitars, i.e. 1st on the pedal board.  (I just bought an Xotic SP compressor and I've been experimenting with pedal order a lot lately.)

mbenigni

Quote from: IanRamos on March 12, 2014, 12:13:36 PM
wow , those guys at Guitarfetish do good stuff ... actually im looking for a humbucker size guitar with a single coil sound ( i really dig the single coils sound , even though i play with lots of distortion ... i'm crazy about Yngwie's tone ) to put in that beast that i'm buying next month :

http://www.thomann.de/es/ibanez_rg550xh_bk.htm

I might try those P-90's recreations ...

Ian, you just made me very jealous.  I 've been looking for that guitar high and low, but for some reason US dealers only have them in red or blue.  I don't know why Ibanez seems to be withholding the black here; it's like they're afraid they'll sell too many.

IanRamos

Mbenigni , funny that you said that , cause usually i'm very jelous of the guitars that you have over there in America ! haha
like for instance that one :

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/S770PBNTF

i wanted to buy that one instead of the 30 frets , but is just impossible to find in Europe ! i have no idea why Ibanez sell diferent guitars in diferent places , is so unfair ...

Anyway , as far as i know , you can get the 30 frets model in black , but the premium model , wich cost 3 times as much and the only difference is a Tone Zone in the bridge ... bummer !

IanRamos

#47
what i would do is to buy the red one and paint it black , that way you could also cut the lower cutaway horn , which is too long , that's what i was gonna do before they released that model here ...
a good painter shouldn't charge you more than 150 bucks for that .

by the way , have you tried it ? i'm crazy curious about the neck pickup simulation ... and i can't find any good Youtube demo showing it .

mbenigni

QuoteAnyway , as far as i know , you can get the 30 frets model in black , but the premium model , wich cost 3 times as much and the only difference is a Tone Zone in the bridge ... bummer !

Yeah, I'd love one of those (I assume they're built a bit better, better wood, hardware, etc.) but the price is prohibitive and they're even harder to find.

Quotewhat i would do is to buy the red one and paint it black , that way you could also cut the lower cutaway horn , which is too long , that's what i was gonna do before they released that model here ...
a good painter shouldn't charge you more than 150 bucks for that .

Makes sense, but I don't really have time to buy a project guitar right now, especially not at a brand-new price.  And you know by the time I was through it would have absolutely no resale value, which is always a little spooky.

Quoteby the way , have you tried it ? i'm crazy curious about the neck pickup simulation ... and i can't find any good Youtube demo showing it .

I have not played one myself, or even seen one in person, but I've heard good things from people who have.  Forum member Bill Ruppert plays one on some of his EHX demos, and has said good things about the guitar.  If it's good enough for him, it's probably good enough for me.  I have a 36-fret Hamer that used to be my main player, and I'd like to get into another extended fretboard.

IanRamos

"Makes sense, but I don't really have time to buy a project guitar right now, especially not at a brand-new price.  And you know by the time I was through it would have absolutely no resale value, which is always a little spooky."

yep , that's true ... well , i wish i could help you , i could send you one , but i think the custom taxes and the shipment would put the price to the roof .

I heard some clips of Bill showing some Kemper sounds with that guitar , and it does sound amazing !
Plus Phill X have that theory that the neck pickups magnetic field affect a lot the strings in a negative way , and you can get massive sustain in an electric guitar by removing the neck pickup ...

unfortunately in the few Youtube demos i found , they never show how the neck simulation sounds , or they do it with a horrible tone ...