Center Point Stereo Space Station V3 / XL

Started by carlb, October 10, 2008, 08:30:49 PM

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carlb

Hey guys,

For a tight, capable smallest stereo rig you can get, try the Groove Tubes SFX-100 and the SFX Spacestation.

Both feature 100 watts per side, and it comes in at 11" X 11" X 18" tall. 30 lbs.

The stereo effect is done from a point-source,  no second monitor needed. It uses a phased-dipole speaker arrangement and internal phasing to get the stereo effect. Very cool box indeed and great for gigging with the VG-99.

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11445.msg83899#msg83899
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
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QSC CP8 powered speaker

foolevil

Anybody tried it?

Looks very cool indeed.Well...actually  it looks stupid but..  considering the size... height 45 cm!

Id like to know what will happen to the lows less than 150 Hz?
I know they tell about 50 hz but it totally another thing how theyll come out,
all active speakers have paper they do 70 hz and so and they sound like violins.

Think Ill find this thing somewhere, I got old Peavey combo which is damn hell to carry more than 10 meters.
I live in 5. floor with no elevator...



WROOM!

carlb

#2
I owned it, and loved it, but it's not working correctly now. The mid-channel speaker now is buzzing a bit and has a distortion with anything coming out of it.

Groove Tubes was bought by Fender who doesn't know what to do with this amp.

See my new post under amps, I've purchased another solution ...

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11445.msg83899#msg83899
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

thebrushwithin

#3
This looks like a potentially great way to bring your VG/GR stereo effects to a gig, using a single enclosure, 40 lb. cabinet.


GrooveTubes founder Aspen Pittman demonstrates his latest audio breakthrough: the Space Station V.3 from Center Point Stereo !

mbenigni

#4
They've been talking about this on the Kemper forum and I'm pretty intrigued.  I could swear Motion Sound used to sell a similar product, but I can't find it on their website now.

EDIT:  Google indicates I might have been thinking of Groove Tubes.  Apparently they sold the earlier versions of the Space Station.

Elantric

#5
CenterPointStereo Spacestation V.3 = An update to Aspens prior Groove Tubes "SFX II" design


http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SFXSSmkII
Stereo Sound from a Single Enclosure!
The Groove Tubes SFX Spacestation Mark II is unlike any other amp we've ever seen! In technical terms, it's a "single compact powered monitor that creates a 300-degree field of stereo sound." What does that mean? It means that it uses a unique speaker setup to faithfully re-create a huge stereo field. The SFX Spacestation Mark II uses a 100-watt-per-channel Class D power amp and dipole speaker array to acheive this 300-degree stereo spread. The SFX "acoustical space vortex" created by the dipole speaker is the secret to the stereo magic, electronically encoding left and right signals, and then acoustically decoding them in the unique Front & Side powered speaker systems. The result: ultra-realistic stereo spread that's great for keyboards and other stereo sources!

The SFX stereo monitor is perfect for amplifying stereo sources such as keyboards, and can also be driven from the stereo outputs of a mixer, or even directly from many stereo effects devices. Plug in and get a fantastic 300 degree stereo sound field for your vocals, keyboards, bass, and guitar which all emanates from one central point...so everybody hears the same mix, even the audience! The SFX Spacestation measures just 18" high and 11" deep and wide, and weighs only 32 lbs. It's the perfect solution for getting terrific, room-filling sound at small gigs!

The Front speaker is a custom-made 8" Co-Ax speaker with a 1" compression driver and 1" super tweeter. The Side speaker is a specially designed 6.5" full range speaker mounted 90 degrees off axis to the front speaker. Level and Width controls allow balance between the Front and Side speakers to compensate for room acoustics (use more Width for a dead room).

Groove Tubes SFX Spacestation Mark II Features:

Stereo 100W/channel Class D power amp
Patented SFX encoder for 300° stereo soundfield
Front speaker system: 8" coax with 1" compression driver and super tweeter
Inputs: Two 1/4" phone jacks for stereo signal input.
Output: One 1/4" phone jack to drive line level external subwoofer
Power 100 + 100 Watts RMS into internal speaker loads
Frequency Response: 60Hz - 20kHz useable
Dimensions 18"H x 11"W x 11"D
Heavy duty strap handle
Weight: 32 lbs



====
Groove Tubes sold the design to Fender in 1999 , who marketed this identical technology as
"Fender Acoustasonic SFX II"


whippinpost91850

Very interesting demo. I may order  one to give it a try.

Frankster

Very interesting demo and a very interesting product ... but what's to stop me knocking a few opamps together, generating L+R and reverse phase L-R signals and running them left and right through my current stereo power amp?

mbenigni

QuoteVery interesting demo and a very interesting product ... but what's to stop me knocking a few opamps together, generating L+R and reverse phase L-R signals and running them left and right through my current stereo power amp?

That would be a cool experiment.  You could probably get something going for a lot less than the current street price of $750.  But I think the real cost/ value is in proper execution of the speaker cabinet (i.e. speaker selection, positioning relative to one another, crossover tuning, etc.)

thebrushwithin

#9
Here is a video with the KPA into the Spacestation:





Elantric

QuoteJohn Huldt and the "KLEMPER" Profiler"  !

What? Is that the  Behringer KPA clone ?


kenact

I just listened to the beginning of the promo, and something doesn't sound right, or rather correct.

He's saying the front speaker is L+R, only the information that is the same. The side speaker is supposed to be L-R, which would seem to be the Left only information. Did I miss something, or has the Right only information been lost?
???
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Elantric

Latest version is here
http://aspenpittmandesigns.com/spacestation-v3/
CENTER POINT STEREO
SPACESTATION v3

360
Center Point Stereo technology is truly historic and ground breaking. Center Point Stereo changes all the rules for live performance. There has never been a speaker like this before. That's why the United States Patent and Trademark office granted its inventors, Aspen Pittman and Drew Daniels, a broad US utility patent #6219426.

Center Point Stereo delivers 300 degree wide 3D stereo sound for everyone, in every direction, from just ONE speaker cabinet! The specially conditioned "Front" and "Side" Center Point Stereo speakers are positioned "out of phase," and so these sound waves reflect off each other, then off walls, floors and ceilings to permeate everywhere in the room... even into other rooms... without losing the 3D stereo image. Unlike conventional stereo speaker systems, the "sweet spot" is EVERYWHERE, and with Center Point Stereo there are NO "sour spots."

CPS SSv3

Our new compact and powerful Center Point Stereo Spacestation v3 powered stereo monitor is the latest evolution in Center Point Stereo technology. With a foot print of less than one square foot, it works as a powerful stereo instrument amp, a stereo PA for the whole band or install it as the perfect stereo sound system for small clubs and churches where space (and budget) are limited.

Use with a mixer to combine the whole band; vocals, instruments, backing tracks... then feed a single Spacestation v3 speaker cabinet to eliminate all the bulky amps and PA speaker cabinets a band would usually require. And just imagine; performers and audience alike hear exactly the same big wide stereo mix! Spacestation v3 is the perfect solution for those challenging small live venues like a restaurant or church.

Just one Center Point Stereo speaker cabinet does it all, it's audio magic!



carlb

Cool! I'll give them a buzz to see if they can repair the one I have. It's been sitting in the basement, I'm terrible about selling broken gear.  ;D
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

Smash

I have itchy gear feet at the mo. - thinking of combining a GP10 with my VG99 amongst other things but mostly I'm wondering about a Spacestation V3 with a sub.

I've been going through FOH but mostly mono and disappointed with mix half the time as it's all small venue stuff (pubs etc) - what I notice most about these kind of gigs is other bands running separate amps get (unsurprisingly) better separation and a better spread of sound.

I thinking about my own sonic space now.

I have a pair of Alto TS112As which sound great but to drag them out along with my monster floorboard well - it doesn't appeal!

So I'm thinking of outing them in favour of a Spacestation combined with a sub as I cover bass duties. I love the idea of the even spread but I'm reading some pretty conflicting views on them....

The major problem is - no one stocks them in the UK so there's no chance of auditioning. I'd have to buy from Thomann Germany

The other thought I had is to run a moderately powered stereo combo with a stereo widener like a KP100S again in conjunction with a low mid/sub.

But just to confuse things even further I discovered the Lucas Nano 600 last night which is lightweight and powerful sub satellite system and it would be easy to add an outboard stereo widener - plenty of old Behringer bits around that do that kind of thing.

It's all very confusing  ???

Elantric

#15
FWIW

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=230.msg4066#msg4066

QuoteWell - I picked up the Fender Acoustisonic SFX yesterday.  It sounded fine with my Fishman equipped Acoustic-Electric at moderate volume. 

However, the VG-99 did not sound good.  It seems that the Fender couldn't handle the input from the VG-99.  I had to turn the gain down to less than one to get anything usable.  Then the volume was insufficient with the amp master all the way up to ten.  I tried various global output settings on the VG-99 (line/phones, combo amp, etc.)

FWIW - I had similar experience with the Fender Acoustisonic SFX = not enough headroom - too easy to distort, not loud enough, muddy.


I understand Groove Tubes licensed the SFX technology and still manufactures cabinets using this scheme.

http://www.groovetubes.com/K3_P1655.cfm
http://web.archive.org/web/20061029023732/http://groovetubes.com/assets/1650_SFX%20Op%20Manual%20-%208.5x11%20page.pdf

http://aspenpittmandesigns.com/spacestation-v3/

As a stereo cab,  It may function better than the fender version when coupled with a better stereo amplifier.

Crate Powerblock?

But for these prices - Id look at the self contained Stereo Keyboard Amp offerings from Motion Sound, Yorkville, or even a Roland AC-90 

There are many good reports of using the VG-99 feeding a 20 year old Roland JC-120 Jazz Chorus Stereo FX Return.



Some recent CenterPointStereo Spacestation V.3 reviews

http://www.synthzone.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/396383/all/centre_point_space_station_key

Smash

Thanks Steve
i managed also to find a couple of guitarists using them with amp modeling - consensus seems to be not quite capable of keeping up with loud rock covers band until you add a sub. But with sub in conjunction it seems to get the thumbs up - it's the whole stereo imaging thing that intrigues me.

I've decide to sell the Altos and give this a go - I'll report findings back.

Smash

I have one!

Was a tad nervous having read a few massively long threads on keyboard users experiences and only a few guitar users but it's a great piece of kit.

There is a decent extension to the bottom end - some users pair it up with Behringer B1200d powered sub I'm undecided about this but I do like 5 string bass emulations on the VG with trouser flapping bottom so may invest.

The stereo effect - first things first, it's not truly stereo but more of an enveloping 3D effect - and the hype is true, it doesn't matter where you are in relation to the amp you get the effect, there is no sweet spot, it's the same wherever you are.

I found a lot of patches worked fine straight out the bag with CPS Width, mid and high levels all at 12 o clock - the Escapism and Deckards Blues sound impressive, especially when you look back and see a single source. Only one issue I encountered was particle verb on CDR70 zoom which I use 100% wet as an extra ambient effect - I had to back the levels down on it as it was much more up front as a result of the Mid Side processing.

Value for money - in all honesty I think it's over priced. It cost basically £700 and is replacing a £500 pair of Altos. I'm not sure of their margins but skin the price and get more adoptors I'd say.

Not sure on flat out SPLs as I've only run it up in my lounge but I like it - certainly enough to sell my pair of Alto TS112a's if only because it's one less unit to lug around.

If you're in the UK there's only one place I found who supply to Europe and that's Thomann

Smash

more time with it and something I've noticed i really like is it feels a little like using a combo amp. I haven't used an actual guitar amp for years - been FR PA speakers for a long time but the SSV3 feels a little like going back to using a combo amp in a very enjoyable way - especially with dirt/crunch sounds. I had an absolute wail of a time playing with my Gospel VG99 patch which has a slightly gritty organ with hold and crunchy tele.

It's very hard to describe but it feels more intimate than PA cabs but you still get this 3D bloom on anything remotely stereo - so essentially a dry or mono effected COSM git stays "in the box" and feel very combo-esque - whereas everything else spreads out - it's a neat side effect I wasn't expecting that could be used to great effect.

I have decided to buy a Behringer 1200D sub but only because I love using 5 string bass sounds with more ambient patches - if you stick with traditional git sounds and any of the HRM stuff the VG does then I'd say no need for it.

The SS3 is also about half the size of one of my Alto Ts-112As

Elantric

#19
Give a report after you use it at a gig with a drummer

When I auditioned one , it could not deliver enough sound pressure level for live use with a loud drummer
http://aspenpittmandesigns.com/spacestation-v3/
The Center Point Stereo magic works by electronically encoding the stereo Left and Right signals to be Mid (L+R) and Side (L-R) signals, then decoding them acoustically via the unique Front and Side dipole-powered speaker array. Center Point Stereo creates a magical 3D stereo sound field that never collapses as with all conventional stereo speaker arrays. Then 'sweet spot' is EVERYWHERE – even traveling around corners and into adjacent rooms!

The Spacestation v3's front speaker is a custom-made 8″ co-ax speaker (by Eminence USA), a 1″ compression driver (by Eminence USA) and a super-tweeter tri-amped with independent level adjustment for the mids and highs via our Speaker Contour controls. The side speaker is a 6.5″ full range speaker positioned 90 degrees off-axis.

Width Control allows for optimizing the stereo effect to compensate for room acoustics (e.g. use more width for a dead room or outdoors and less width for live or highly reflective rooms). Included is a sub woofer/full line level output, useful for connecting a sub woofer or going to Front Of House which is useful for larger venues.

Specifications:

Speaker Size: 1 x 8″, 1 x 6.5″, 1 x 1″, 1 x Tweeter
Total Power: 100W RMS (Front/Side), 40W RMS (Midrange)
Frequency Range: 100Hz-20kHz
Inputs: 2 x 1/4″
Outputs: 1 x 1/4″ (Subwoofer/Line level)
Height: 18″
Width: 11″
Depth: 11″
Weight: 40 lbs. (without packaging)
Features:

Stereo sound from one cabinet provides big sound in a convenient package
Center Point Stereo patented 300º dispersion
Master Level control
Stereo Width control lets you tailor your sound for the venue
3-way tri-amp front speaker for power and efficiency
Eminence (USA) Acoustinator CX2008 8″ speaker
Eminence (USA) APT-50 1″ compression mid driver
Speaker Contour controls for fine-tuning your sound
Subwoofer output (line level) for maximum performance in large or bass-deficient venues, or going to FOH
Compact and lightweight for easy transport and setup
Average 106db max SPL (read: LOUD!)
Includes cover

Smash

#20
You've tried the SS V3 now then? What did you think of the sound and effect?

Elantric

#21
With the current  Space Station V3 - Center Point Stereo speaker configuration ( 1 x 8″, 1 x 6.5″, 1 x 1″, 1 x Tweeter)

It was great for home practice  - but when used at loud gig volume to compete with a drummer , the speakers would flub and distort easily and not move enough air compared to my Roland Cube 80XL

If the speakers were 12" and the power was 300watts it might be attractive

But it might be perfect for other folks

Other reviews
http://www.synthzone.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/396383/all/centre_point_space_station_key


Smash

Well that's got me worried...not in an immediate situation to try it against a drummer. Just have to see how it goes...

Headless68

interesting idea & Im with you that lugging less is a good thing, however Im really happy sound and volume wise running a pair of cube 60's (been using them for the last 7 years), not too heavy, very loud, just set them on 'JC120' and let the modelling do the rest.

That said ......our Bass player just bought a new GK head which is 400watt and weighs about the same as a big mac !  it is sooooooo loud ( through an ashdown 4x10 ) - guess that technology will be heading to guitar amps

kenact

Quote from:  Smash on September 06, 2016, 11:45:39 AM
Well that's got me worried...not in an immediate situation to try it against a drummer. Just have to see how it goes...

Come on out to Brooklyn, NY. I can introduce you to a drummer that drowned out my Behringer ACX900.
Godin Session & Montreal FTP, LGXT, LGX SA, Redline, ACS, A12, A11, A10, A4
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