Will FTP hang in there or fade away... general opinions plz.

Started by musicamex, June 14, 2016, 09:48:04 PM

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musicamex

Hi amigos,
After moving to a remote rural location in the mexican mountains 7 mos ago, i finally have internet again.  It took a tower and special server, but I'm catching up with lots of my favorite reading, this site being on the "a" list.  My studio and electronics lab are almost done but are functioning and the structures of the metal and wood shops are coming along nicely albeit at rural mexico's "mañana " pace.

I see Fishman hasn't done too much to change the FC1 or to streamline the installation process and problems i and many have encountered, though they seemed very upbeat at NAMM this jan.  With fender dropping their FTP equipped strat, i wondered if the FTP is going the way of the rest of V guitar toys i have invested in over the last few decades.  Id really like to try out a FC1. Now that i have a computer powerful enough to deal with the software and hardware combos i want to combine i am enjoying the FTP in my studio, but the FC1 would certainly open a few more doors.  This fishman concept is too good to be another product to become one without updates or support.  Any opinions?  Or is V Guitar just too small of a niche to give any product a fighting chance?

HAMERMAN409

At a bare minimum I would assume they will keep selling the existing FTP system since the R&D has already been done.

musicamex

Hamerman....are you a Hamer aficionado?  I have 2 i really like.  One is a Cheap Trick model from the original Chicago plant and the other a USA Californian 27 fret model and has the Hamer locking trem that many say is = to or better than the Floyd Rose.   Both great axes that get little use since i usually play the guitars i build.

jassy

I think Fishman made the mistake to ignore all the 13 pin existing users.
So develop a product adapted to this niche market could be a way to extend their system to many more users.
I have an FTP but hardly use it because it is installed on a single guitar, however I have gk / piezo 7 guitars.

Elantric

QuoteI think Fishman made the mistake to ignore all the 13 pin existing users.
So develop a product adapted to this niche market could be a way to extend their system to many more users.
I have an FTP but hardly use it because it is installed on a single guitar, however I have gk / piezo 7 guitars.


Agreed

That's why many here have already developed a home brew  GK -13 pin to FTP solution

FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8413.0

chrish

I didn't invest in the FTP because my understanding is that it requires a computer. If it only needed, and came with, a midi breakout box to connect it to my midi synth modules, then i would have tried and tested it for midi glitches. I'm not so concerned with the latency of these products given that our own brains have a lantency starting around 150 ms, if i remember correctly. The midi latency factor can be helped with an analog or vg or sy signal, but a midi fart in a crowed room is hard to hide and can't be blamed on the drummer. :-)

admin

QuoteI didn't invest in the FTP because my understanding is that it requires a computer.


You can use the stock FTP fresh out of the box and directly connect the FTP wireless USB MIDI class compliant dongle to :




* M-Audio Accent Module
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=17756.msg126511#msg126511


* MIDiPlus  Mini Engine USB
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=17360.0
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=17369.0



* Codesmart's Primovasound MIDX-10 + Any 5 pin DIN MIDI Tone Module
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=15758.0



* Kenton USB Host to MIDI adapter  + Any 5 pin DIN MIDI Tone Module
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8427.0

* iPad+ Apple USB Camera Adapter
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9581.0


Read about other USB Host to MIDI adapters
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=15763.msg112535#msg112535

chrish

Well thanks for that information on the FTP compatable usb to midi boxes. I was wondering if codesmarts midx-10 box would work, but the sweetwater cataolog states ''then plug the usb wireless receiver into your computer or ios device''.   Maybe time to check the FTP out. I guess l'll have to read the threads to check if glitches are a problem with the FTP.

musicamex

Quote from: admsustainiac on June 15, 2016, 09:51:26 AM

You can use the stock FTP fresh out of the box and directly connect the FTP wireless USB MIDI class compliant dongle to :




* M-Audio Accent Module
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=17756.msg126511#msg126511


* MIDiPlus  Mini Engine USB
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=17360.0
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=17369.0



* Codesmart's Primovasound MIDX-10 + Any 5 pin DIN MIDI Tone Module
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=15758.0



* Kenton USB Host to MIDI adapter  + Any 5 pin DIN MIDI Tone Module
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8427.0

* iPad+ Apple USB Camera Adapter
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9581.0


Read about other USB Host to MIDI adapters
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=15763.msg112535#msg112535

Thanks for this info.  How do these units work to control hardware synth units?  Or do they contain patches?  The very little i know about midi (or the myriad of gear to add to the chain) is from years of playing around with midi guitar.  I was hoping the FTP and or the FC1 would simplify things somewhat.  So far other than losing the 13 pin cable with the FTP, gigwise, a Vg88 or Vg99 always worked well for me at gigs compared to my ftp with added laptop.  In the studio, i am enjoying the FTP ALLOT.  But with my recent move and associated building plus about a year backorder on my axes and amps,  i haven't had the time to do the homework I should to get more out of the FTP.  By now i should realize simple plug and play with lots of good patches in the v guitar world might be dreaming.  At least in the gear desert south of the border.  No wonder everyone else down here stuck to playing covers on a std les paul or strat.

Elantric

QuoteThanks for this info.  How do these units work to control hardware synth units?


Use the FTP Controllers D Pad to navigate 


- its sends MIDI Program change up / down messages wirelessly to the FTP USB Wireless receiver that in turn transmits MIDI Program change up / down messages to any USB Host to MIDI connected synth  or ipad running softsynth.


And the FTP Controller "Synth Volume" knob transmits MIDI CC#7 messages  - which most MIDI synths recognize as "Volume"
Ive been using FTP with an iPad running any number of IOS synths for many gigs for years - rarely lug a laptop to the gig 


We explain all this here

FTP FAQ
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8427.0

FTP  - Top things to know
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=135.0


read iPad+ Apple USB Camera Adapter with example using a pwered USB hub to connect FTP USB receiver+ KMI Softstep II MIDI foot controller
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9581.0

or RHCole's Review of FTP feeding 
Miditech PianoBox Mini - General MIDI Synth Module
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=17360.0


and

Post Your FTP iPad Rig Pics
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8418.0



  Gear
1 - TC Helicon MP-75
2 - Talent iClaw iPad mount
3 - Behringer Eurolive B205
4 - Three port USB hub (FTP, Zoom G3, EMU xMIDI 1x1)
5 - Ultimate stand Tour-T-Short-T
6 - TC Helicon Voicelive Play GTX
7 - Pedaltrain Mini
8 - Zoom G3
9 - M-Audio Expression (Zoom G3)
10 - Behringer FCB1010

Audio Paths
Mic > TC VLP GTX (mic in/main XLR out) > B205 (line in 1)
Guitar > GTX (inst in/thru) > G3 (in/USB out) > USB hub > CCK/iPad > G3 XLR out > B205 (line in 2)
FTP Synth > USB hub > CCK/iPad > G3 XLR out > B205 (line in 2)

The B205 is used as a mixer/monitor and the thru out on the back goes to the main speaker. Previously using a QSC K12 (just sold) but awaiting an Atomic CLR powered wedge (which will do double duty as a mains speaker for my acoustic rig and a stage monitor for my direct electric rig which is a whole 'nother ball of wax and not shown).

MIDI Paths
Zoom G3 MIDI over USB for preset changes with the FCB1010
FTP MIDI notes to various apps
Behringer FCB1010 (midi out) > EMU (midi in)
TC VLP GTX (midi in) > EMU (midi out)
The MIDI Bridge app ties it all together in the iPad.

Elantric


chrish

Just to be clear. Do those usb to midi boxes send note on/off pitch, velocity and pitch bend midi to actually trigger the hardware synths or do they only send out midi control measuses such as volume and patch change?

Elantric

QuoteDo those usb to midi boxes send note on/off, velocity and pitch bend midi to actually trigger the hardware synths or do they only send out midi control measuses such as volume and patch change?

The USB Host to MIDI converters mentioned above faithfully transmit ALL MIDI data sent by the FTP USB Wireless dongle.   

Just connect the FTP USB Wireless dongle to an iPad + USb Camera Adapter ( USB Host) and run a MIDI monitor app and start playing guitar - the IOS MIDI Monitor app window will fill with FTP MIDI note on/off messages / pitch bend messages  / program change messages , etc. 

Fishman TriplePlay - iOS Basic Settings



Fishman Triple Play & Ipad mini



Using Fishman Triple Play with MUSE Receptor

see more FTP > Hardware MIDI Synth demos here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=18413.0

its no different than connecting the  FTP USB Wireless dongle to a PC or Mac - because  FTP USB Wireless dongle is USB MIDI Class Compliant - a very important feature of the Tripleplay

If the Fishman Tripleplay USB Dongle was NOT USB class compliant, but needed a special USB driver for Win/Mac  - then Id have to vote on the side that thinks " Yes, the FTP will fade away..."

But happily thats NOT the case.

Lets just imagine if Fishman packs up and ceases FTP production this Friday, in 10-20 years my FTP will still be a functional tool - thanks to being USB MIDI class compliant 

read more about "USB MIDI Class Compliant" here

http://www.usb.org/developers/docs/devclass_docs/midi10.pdf

http://www.sweetwater.com/insync/class-compliant/


chrish


musicamex

Thank you all for the links.  There is allot for an old tube era fart to digest and make sense of.  I will be 70 the end of this month.  I used a slide rule all the way through university and still love and build hand wired tube amps and wind my pups with formvar wire around alnico magnets.  V guitar is the cutting edge for me and i really have a tiny fraction of the background to really "get it" compared to guys like elantric and other senior members here.  I'm happy to still play classic rock, build guitars and tube amps.  There is so much to choose from re gear these days it takes away from my remaining fun time just trying to make it do what i hope it will or what the factory says it will.  Please don't misunderstand,  i think technology is great or i wouldn't spend so much $ on it. 

If i wanted to use the FTP with say my vg99 or axon ax100 for example is that possible and what interface would be necessary?

Could i use the FTP with both my windows 7 laptop (dedicated to the FTP ) and hardware synths without the 13 pin cable?  I described the laptop in a previous post. But it is 16gb ram 128 ssd plus 1tb hd.  Lots of ports.  Custom configured for its intended use.   I stuck with windows 7 because i am familiar with it.  I like many of the soft synth patches that came with the FTP but also have various  roland, emu , axon rack units that have patches i like or created/modified id like to continue using.

For gigs, what is my best option based around the FC1 without buying yet more gear and respecting tha KISS rule.....very important for us old vets at closing time.  I still don't quite understand if the FC1 can store working patches or if it only controls other hardware/software.

Video tutorials are a real help amigos.  Not much out there on the FC1 IN THAT REGARD. 

Thanks for helping me max my music experience b4  i trade my gear for a lazy boy recliner.. i bet they even have a computer chip in them these days.



Rhcole

The FTP isn't going anywhere. They have big plans for it. Trust me on this one...  ;)

whippinpost91850


Rhcole

Made a new friend, but will likely be put under NDA (nondisclosure agreement) soon so I can't discuss. But, I have a very sincere hunch that the hex development empire may pivot more Fishman's way instead of coming from Japan.


musicamex

I went ahead and ordered one (fc1).  Won't get it until august as it is coming in someone's baggage.  That way i can be more specific with questions on making it work, hopefully as i want it to.
Rhcole:  I hope if you have or will have any input at Fishman, please try to get better documentation on use and hookup into the brew.  I'm sure many musicians are not interested or schooled in the technical side of the sounds possible and hardware combinations that might be possible.  We just want to easily hook up and play, coached by simple diagrams.  I think this info would help sales.  There is vastly more information here on V Guitar on how to use the Fc1 and FTP than from the products' source.

Maybe by the time i get my FC1 there will be better implementation info on the fishman site.

Thanks to everyone who helped answer some of my questions and for all of the contribution of information to this site.  And for being patient with an old fart who was born 40 yrs too early for allot of the toys i play with.

gumbo

Hey musicamex, I'm only two years behind you! 
...if it all gets too much, we can start an Old Fart's sub-forum together..   8)

All the best from Australia
Peter

;D
Read slower!!!   ....I'm typing as fast as I can...

whippinpost91850

And I believe I'm ahead of you, So bring on the Old Farts club :)

Vade

We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that shreds his strat with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

chrish

Hey, 70 is the new 50. At least  i hope so,'cause it's nice to be 41 again. It's kind of funny how my old friends complain about aches and pains, so i remind them that we all had similar pains in our 30's, like the broken foot i got because i had to jump off a skateboad, that had a windsurfing sail rigged on it, in order to avoid crashing into a parked car. Yea, i was not too smart back them, but hey ''fool that i am, i'd do it all again''.

szilard

Quote from: whippinpost91850 on June 18, 2016, 07:42:07 AM
And I believe I'm ahead of you, So bring on the Old Farts club :)

Oh, is that what Senior Member means ;) I'm recently retired, but you're making me feel young ...

whippinpost91850

#24
Must be nice to be retired ??? I'm nearly 66 and still working 5-6 days a week and playing in 2 bands :)