Future GR55 User, Help Picking A Guitar

Started by timmyg1978, October 10, 2013, 03:12:22 AM

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timmyg1978

Hello all!! I'm planning on buying a new setup after the first of the year on payments from zzounds.com including the gr 55 with gk 3, roland cube 40xl and a guitar to use with it. I really want to get something with a floyd rose (plus evh drop tuna) because like the gr 55, it's something I've always wanted but never had. I've pretty much narrowed it down to two, but it doesn't look like either have much space between the bridge and pickup so I'm hoping you guys could give me your thoughts on them.

Here is the first, BC Rich Gunslinger Retro (I would swap the PUP for Duncan Black Winter) http://www.zzounds.com/item--BCRGUNSLING

And the second ESP LTD M-330R http://www.zzounds.com/item--ESPM330R

Thanks in advance!!!
Born To Be Cyco

MeanMrMustard

Hello
From pics I saw on zzz sounds it doesn't look like the gk pu would fit it. If you really want to use these guitars, then check out the www.graphtech.com site. You can get a replacement bridge system to match the style of guitar. These bridges are outfitted with the graphTech ghost midi piezo saddles.
They have several to choose from. They are also willing to speak to you at length about your setup and your needs. You will need to measure the saddles that come with the guitar in mm, to see which one you will need from graphTech. I hope this helps. You will need a graphTech preamp installed as well, it will require some modification to your guitar.

MeanMrMustard
MeanMrMustard

www.myspace.com/addisonbrady

datsunrobbie

Welcome!

Looks to me like the GK3 should fit on the gunslinger without a problem, the ESP looks very tight. You may run into problems with the height of the pickup, I really cannot tell from the pictures. Swapping in a piezo bridge will cost as much or more than the guitar just for the parts, and is fairly major surgery. If at all possible, I'd lay hands on one before buying and check to see if the GK will fit.

If you have never had a Floyd Rose before you might want to attach the GK-3 to a more familiar guitar, at least when starting out. You did not mention if this is going to be your first guitar synth, but if it is you may find that you have to alter your technique to get good results. The Floyd Rose may also have a very different feel than other guitars you have played - I know my strat with the Floyd feels a lot different than any of the others I own - and that difference can be annoying. The GK-3 can be attached to most guitars  without any permanent modifications, and is easy to set up. Once you get the hang of it, you can probably swap the GK-3 from one guitar to another in 15 minutes or less.

Elantric

#3
First time Roland Guitar Synth user's are advised to use a Roland GK-3 pickup. These yield the most joy and avoid problems with Palm contact on Piezo Bridge Noise which spoils the GR55 fun.

Also from my experience,  a Graphtech Ghost MIDI Expander internal preamp and Piezo bridge is the bottom of my list of  preferred pickups for use with the GR55.

We have several threads which explain which pickup type works best with GR55 in the

GR55 Top Things to Know thread.
www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4006.0
* * Hex Pickup Type Advice. (GK-3 vs Piezo)
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5043.msg34288#msg34288


BTW it will be a tight fit , but a GK3 should be able to be installed on the B.C Rich Gunslinger.



Review the
Guitar Bridge String-to-String Spacing Reference
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8612.msg61708#msg61708

Guitar "E" to "e" String Spacing at Bridge (Narrow  to Wide)
Floyd Rose  =  2.070 inches (52.58mm)

Download the detailed GK Magnetic Hex Pickup Study Doc
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=downloads;sa=downfile&id=41

Measurements with pics of most popular pickups 
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=41




shawnb

#4
One word of caution - the manual says that the GK3 should be mounted <20mm from the bridge.  Technically you can do that with a Floyd, but I do believe you get much better results if you can get it closer. 

Lots of threads on this forum on the subject of which voices work best on the GR-55.  Generally things like keyboards and strings and synths work great, but many have issues with piano, drums & saxes. 

I absolutely love my GK-3-equipped, Floyd-equipped, Peavey Wolfgang.  I get good, but not excellent, results on the problematic voices such as sax.  I've seen a couple of videos of folks doing much better, and my observation is that they have simpler bridges.  Very small sample, I know, but now I have a theory that the style of bridge and proximity make the difference between good & excellent performance. 

So...  Be aware that with these guitars, you may be dealing with a tradeoff - they will be very FUN to play (as I said I LOVE mine), but I suspect they will pose more of a challenge on some of the tougher GR-55 voices.   

I'd like to know folks' thoughts on this...

Shawn
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

timmyg1978

Thanks for the input guys!! The BC Rich may be my first choice just because I love the green look, but pianos are the main voice I'm looking for.

A little about my experience and current setup: I've been playing guitar and bass around 20 couple years, my current guitars include Yourock Gen2 (this was also my first "synth"), Guild d 40 acoustic, schecter damian elite 8 string, ibanez Rs something (at my moms house right now can't remember the model), Ibanez gio 206 bass, a stagg 3/4 size classical, and sometimes dad let's me use his 59 Gibson LPJ. For effects I run 4 cable method from a digitech rp1000 to a marshal mg50dfx plus my distortion pedals and wah through the stomp loop, bp355 for bass effects plus a wah into a 60 watt stagg. I've also got tons of other non guitar/ bass gear which I won't get into.

I think the new guitar with a gr 55 would be an excellent addition to my setup and has got to be better than the yourock. I def don't want to do any mods other than maybe swapping the PUPs. I suppose if it didn't work right on the BC Rich I could just throw it on my 8 string or ibanez, unless there's a better option. I'm not really dead set on a floyd rose, but I do really really want one;^]
Born To Be Cyco

admin

QuoteI suppose if it didn't work right on the BC Rich I could just throw it on my 8 string,

That seems really daunting - please post pics if you go that route

timmyg1978

#7
Will do, but that's why I'm doing my research and planning now even though I can't place the order til next year;^]

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Born To Be Cyco

Mrchevy

Welcome Timmyg, I agree with Elantric that it should fit (space wise ) on the BC Rich. It might be a little tricky as the pickup is cocked and usually with that type of guitar there is a plate that mounts over the pickup ring to mount the GK pickup on. Might have to fabricate something. Are you set on a BC Rich or is it just the style? There are other guitars of that style that might work better. Also, the BC Rich Gunslinger is a 1 trick pony (1 humbucker and volume), you will be missing out on some tonal diversity with that one. I had an original Gunslinger back in the 80's, white with hot pink and hot blue spatter paint and maple neck. Looked really cool but it was a one sound guitar. Do you have the option of a guitar store to check others out? If your buying a guitar for use with the GR55, consider the string spacing at the bridge so the strings sit centered over the individual GK pickups and also consider the fret board radius of the guitar as the GK pickup works better with a bit of radius to it rather than a flatter fret board like what a Les Paul would have. Just some food for thought.....eat up  ;)
Gibson Les Paul Custom
Epi Les Paul Standard
Gibson SG 50's prototype
Squire classic vibe 60's
Epi LP Modern
Epi SG Custom
Martin acoustic

Princeton chorus 210

GT100
GR-55
Helix LT
Waza Air Headphones
Boomerang III

And, a lot of stuff I DON'T need

timmyg1978

The only music stores here deal in dean, ibanez or squire.

I'm def not dead set on any part of the package yet except the GR55 with gk3, I've even thought about skipping on the amp and getting a gk3b for my bass (still debating that one lol). But I'm very open to alternatives with just a couple catches, it has to be from zzounds because I need the payment option and I'm only looking to spend around $400. I probably won't use the magnetic pups often, though I would swap for Duncan Black Winter if I bought the gunslinger. I also thought about a les paul or sg, or maybe back to ibanez, but I'd still kinda like to have a floyd rose (I know ibanez has some trems in the price range but they're all edge trems). I noticed alot of guitars I looked at have minimal spacing between the bridge and pup, even most of the epiphones.
Born To Be Cyco

timmyg1978

Hey what about this http://www.zzounds.com/item--IBARGIR27FE

I know it won't work with the 7th string, but I could afford it if I drop the amp. Not worried too much for the lack of tone controls and it looks to me plenty of spacing for the gk3.
Born To Be Cyco

Elantric

Using a Gk-3 on a guitar with more than 6 strings is NOT recommended for your 1st 13 pin Synth access Guitar.

The GK 13 pin interface does not support more than 6 strings.

There are custom configurations that experienced users have adapted to 7 and 8 string instruments - but this is not recommended. 

timmyg1978

I couldn't just put it on strings E - E and just use the low B when I'm using the emgs? If not there's a six string model http://www.zzounds.com/item--IBARGIR20FE

But if I could do it with the 7 string I might even sell off my schecter
Born To Be Cyco

Mrchevy

#13
Well, you have plenty of time to research and decide. We can certainly help guide you in the right direction. I would recommend doing a LOT of reading here on the forum to get up to speed on the trials and tribulations of the GR55. There are threads here about many different guitars used with it. Some general info will help us make suggestions to get you were you want to be with a new setup.

1. What style of music are you interested in playing (I'm guessing metal/hardcore with the initial guitars your looking at and the interest in 7 or 8 strings)

keep in mind that with the possibilities of the GR55, you may find yourself experimenting in directions not previously traveled. Don't rule out a guitar with some tonal diversity. You would be amazed at the massive sound you can create when combining the GR55/GK3 setup And a MFX unit with the guitars regular pickups. Trust me , you wont need the extra strings. You can use alternate tuning and octaves on the GR55 AND standard tuning from the guitar itself together and do things a 7 string wishes it could do.

2. What is you intentions as far as performance (home/studio hermit,like me  ;) ,live giging, casual jamming with friends, etc. ).

Most here will likely recommend a different route for amplification depending on what your doing. You may find after more reading and discussion, your list may change considerably (eliminating some, changing some), there are a lot of good people here with lots of experience and knowledge with these units and guitar synth in general. Some advice will be personal preferences, some will be tried and true facts. My Grandfather told me once, "find a woman that can cook, cause they can all........well, you know"  ;). Same for a guitar. Find one your happy with cause they all make noise.

Just for starters http://www.zzounds.com/item--SCEOMEN6FRA

Somewhere on this forum is a thread on a bracket for mounting a GK3 to a humbucker trim ring. I made mine. I'm sure if you said pretty please, Elantric could find it quick and post a link (hint, hint)

EDIT: found it, I think the link is dead but it gives you an idea of what it looks like. https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=40.0
Gibson Les Paul Custom
Epi Les Paul Standard
Gibson SG 50's prototype
Squire classic vibe 60's
Epi LP Modern
Epi SG Custom
Martin acoustic

Princeton chorus 210

GT100
GR-55
Helix LT
Waza Air Headphones
Boomerang III

And, a lot of stuff I DON'T need

timmyg1978

Hey thanks!! Yeah I'm sorta metal/ goth though I don't really always stick to that label. I also do some acoustic stuff and rap, but for rap I mostly just use samples and loops. As far as usage, it's really an all of the above kind of thing, I mostly just record and play around at home but I do play out with a couple buddies from time to time.

I found several threads on sevenstring.org on people using 7 and 8 strings as I described, here's an older one with pics http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/extended-range-guitars/190446-ibanez-rga8-bk-rga8-qm-saber-s7-all-gk-2a-equipped.html#post2905240 Well that got me thinking, if it'll work on a 8 string from strings 1 - 6, why buy a new guitar at all? My Schecter does have good spacing for the gk 3 (plus I love the hell out of that guitar), and that'd leave enough to either upgrade my bass or maybe even upgrade my amp to a peavey 6505+.
What do ya think? btw this is the schecter I have http://www.zzounds.com/item--SCEDAMEL8
Born To Be Cyco

Elantric

Nothing beats direct personal trial and error.

timmyg1978

Found a picture of my old Ibanez (still at my moms house right now) https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150338186999079&set=a.10150338180724079.354011.625829078&type=3&theater

Was thinking I might put it on that if I run into too many problems on the 8 string. I still might buy another guitar yet, just excersizing my power of thought lol
Born To Be Cyco

Mrchevy

#17
Either of those guitars would work. I had my GK3 on my Schecter C1 Hellraiser for a while, seemed to work fine. You could just spend guitar funds on upgrades for the Ibanez instead. As for amplification for the GR, I would look more in the keyboard amp or powered monitor direction. Keep in mind, if you want to take advantage of the GR stereo capability, 2 small powered monitors or a stereo amp. Guitar amps tend to color the sound and won't give you the full frequency range. The roland cubes can deliver some fairly transparent sound. 2 smaller ones, 1 left and 1 right would work, don't know if I would go smaller than a 10" speaker. Check out the amp threads for more info. The Tech 21's seem to be a favorable choice but are a little pricy. I have 2 alto ts110a's and I'm very happy with those.
Gibson Les Paul Custom
Epi Les Paul Standard
Gibson SG 50's prototype
Squire classic vibe 60's
Epi LP Modern
Epi SG Custom
Martin acoustic

Princeton chorus 210

GT100
GR-55
Helix LT
Waza Air Headphones
Boomerang III

And, a lot of stuff I DON'T need

Litesnsirens

I agree regarding the amp, get something full range.  Much better for the keyboard sounds, and acoustic sounds (if you're thinking about using acoustic sounds) and the amp modelling works well for guitar sounds through the full range as well.

timmyg1978

 Thanks guys, but I've already got that covered, I'm only looking at amps for the regular pups to upgrade from my marshal. The stereo outs however for the synth sounds would run through my Edirol m16dx and into either my shure srh440 headphones or krk rockit 8's when I'm at home (live in an apartment building), or if I'm playing out from the edirol to a pair of mackie thump 15's;^]
Born To Be Cyco

timmyg1978

#20
Well guys it took me longer than expected, ended up having to get a second computer to handle the increase in workloads. So, after getting that payed off I finally picked something up, but instead decided to go with the Fender Fishman Tripleplay Strat since zzounds had it for 12 month pay. I love the hell outta this thing,  and the tremolo may not be able to handle as much abuse as a floyd rose but it handles my usage just fine. So I made a demo vid, not a very good one but enough to show off some of it's capabilities since there were no user vids on youtube of it (just the fender and namm vids). Do check it out

Born To Be Cyco

DreamTheory

I just have a good old stop tail bridge, and the GK-3 pickup ships with a little mounting flange that fits under it. Easy peasy. Height adjsuted by little soft plastic spacers (look like bits of tubing) rather than springs- after 3 years mine still work great.

My advice is this: if you can, mount it upside down, with the wire trailing low. There is a menu item that let's you indicate it is a reverse mount (manual p. 76). I had mine mounted in the "traditional" wire out the top method and my had kept rubbing the wire, not good.

Oh yeah- don't use a fork style guitar stand. Get one that grips the headstock, because the GK wires get crimped in a fork stand. I'll send you a pic if you don't know what I mean.

And definitely read the "Start Here" advice in the forum.
electric: Epiphone Dot semihollow body, acoustic: mahogany jumbo, recording: Cubase Artist 11 or Tascam DP008

Elantric

#22
QuoteI just have a good old stop tail bridge, and the GK-3 pickup ships with a little mounting flange that fits under it. Easy peasy. Height adjsuted by little soft plastic spacers (look like bits of tubing) rather than springs- after 3 years mine still work great.

Actually the GK-3 PU does ship with a plastic PU mounting adapter that sits under a Gibson T.O.M. (Tune-o-matic) bridge, 
http://www.roland.com/V-Guitar/howto_lp.html


there is no GK-3 PU Mounting adapter for a "Stop Tail Piece" type bridge, as found on LP Juniors. Melody Makers


   

Toff.

Quote from: Elantric on October 10, 2013, 07:25:44 AM
First time Roland Guitar Synth user's are advised to use a Roland GK-3 pickup. These yield the most joy and avoid problems with Palm contact on Piezo Bridge Noise which spoils the GR55 fun.

+1
After 2 Godin pre-equipped with RMC pickups, I can vouch for this.
+ Future compatibility (BOSS GP-10?) is also to be considered. Because my pickups were made at the time of the GR-20, when the GR-55 came out, some sounds were not usable - Not specifically RMC or Godin's fault, but Roland will always favour their own GK over third party's.

You will be better off, for you first one, with a good guitar and a GK mounted :)
Musical regards,

Toff.

Godin nylon ACS special edition (Light Burst Quilted Leaftop), Taylor T5 Classic, Fishman Triple Play, Roland GR-20, Roland GR-55, TC-Helicon VoiceLive 3, Digitech Vocalist Live5, iConnectMidi2+

Mrchevy

So are you using it with a GR55 or the tripleplay and software synth? The tracking sounds good. The guitar seemed to come back to tune after some of your tremolo use. If the shoe fits, play it ;D. Mistakes schmistakes, we all make them. It's called noodling around. Ever seen Jimmy Page play live? Or Eddie Van Halen. Living proof that confident execution can make sloppy playing sound like it was suppose to sound like that. Perfect only counts in classical guitar  ;). So what setup are you now running?
Gibson Les Paul Custom
Epi Les Paul Standard
Gibson SG 50's prototype
Squire classic vibe 60's
Epi LP Modern
Epi SG Custom
Martin acoustic

Princeton chorus 210

GT100
GR-55
Helix LT
Waza Air Headphones
Boomerang III

And, a lot of stuff I DON'T need