JTV - Alternate Tuning stability.

[guitarno]

   I recently bought a JTV-59 and a Pod HD500X. I tried it out in the store and really liked the feel and intonation, and the guitar emulations & alternate tunings sounded pretty good to my ears when I was playing it in the store. I wasn't actually playing them hooked up together, just the JTV into a couple of combo amps.

   I decided to take the plunge and bought them both. After bringing them home, I installed all the software, and updated the Variax to the latest version. I had read some of the complaints here and on other forums about the problems with several models including the strat/quack issues, but not having used the previous versions and having nothing to compare them to, I thought I would just do the update and see how I liked it.

   After playing with the alternate tunings a little, it seems to me that I'm hearing some bleed through of the original string notes, or other harmonics or sympathetic notes that make some of the alternate tunings unusable. Some of them sound OK, and others not so much. I'm still trying to get familiar with the interface & analyze exactly what's going on.

Line 6 Post related to this issue:  ---> http://line6.com/support/topic/2382-variax-ghost-notes/

   I know that the acoustic string sound is going to be the original pitch, and you have to have the signal level loud enough to not hear the acoustic un-amplified notes. On the VG-99 I just had to turn up a little to drown out the original notes. I have tried turning up, and monitoring through headphones, but I'm still hearing extraneous notes mixed in. 

  I was wondering if the other JTV users on the forum have had any similar issues with their Variax's? At this point, I'm not sure if this is an anomaly of the recent update, if it's something defective with my Variax, or if I am doing something fundamentally wrong. This weekend, I will record some stuff to a DAW, to try & make sure I'm really hearing what I think I'm hearing. I may need to roll back to an earlier version of the Variax firmware, and see if that makes a difference. I tried re-loading the current version to no avail. There are directions in the Line 6 JTV "Pilot's Guide" to reset the alternate tunings, but they don't work, and I am told they are now obsolete in the latest version of the firmware.


Do any of you JTV Variax users here have any similar experiences? Is there something in particular in the software I should be looking at?

Thanks for your time!

[Elantric]

No issues here -  I have your same rig

Contact Line6 Tech Support - as I have also read the "Ghost Note " thread you linked and heard the MP3 demo of the ghost notes. Thats a defect or setup issue somewhere!

JTV Variax Alt tuning mode  when it is working should be similar to the VG-99 / GR-55  -

Many users found a need to launch latest version of Line6 Monkey, then downgrade the JTV firmware to an earlier version 1.82 prior to doing a firmware update.

I used my HD-500X to apply the JTV firmware updates - no problems for me.

Myself - I reverted back to  JTV Firmware 1.90 - no love for HD 2.01 here. 

But Line6 HD-500X has issues  that forces me to keep my old HD-500  - since the HD-500X will NOT run the the old version of the Workbench (the old HD-500 and even my Vetta Combo with VDI board does)   

And at this hour - the Variax VDI -USB  box is the ONLY way to run Workbench HD 


http://line6.com/software/index.html
-----------
NOTE: Line 6 Monkey 1.62 is required in order to install this firmware update.

The v1.9 firmware update for James Tyler(r) Variax(r) features enhanced palm muting for a more natural response to muted guitar parts and aggressive playing styles.  It also provides faster updates with additional error checking.

For JTV-89 Customers Only: In addition to the 28 electric, acoustic and eclectic instruments, you also get five high-gain models exclusive to JTV-89 loaded into custom bank 1. Each model is based on a different pickup position, and delivers high-gain guitar tone while allowing you to access drop tunings, custom Dream Rig configurations and more.

The five high-gain models come with a couple caveats: 1. For the time being, they are not editable in Workbench, nor will you be able to mix and match the body or pickup models.   2. For the time being, the High Gain Model is hard-wired into the Custom 1 bank.  You will not be able to overwrite the Custom 1 bank from the guitar or from Workbench.

NOTE: (when updating from 1.71): If you've loaded your guitar with custom models and would like to retain your current custom banks and/or custom models, please sync with Variax Workbench and save your custom model set. You will be able to re-load your models from Workbench after you've completed the update.

[germanicus]

The easiest way to see if you have a problem is to record the output directly (not with a microphone) and listen to playback for extra strings/notes.

I have not experienced this problem.

There are two other possibilities:

If you use a pod500 or 500x, its possible to set up patches that have both modeled and magnetic pickup signals both turned on. This is great for dual amp processing and getting a big sound, but if you use an alternate tuning, will sound as you describe.

Its also now possible in 2.0 to STORE a modeled guitar that also includes the magnetic pickup signal simultaneously. You dont need a pod for this functionality, but you must have specifically programmed this in Workbench and stored it in the guitar.

[Elantric]

I agree with Germanicus,  - Do check both issues below

There are two other possibilities:

* If you use a pod500 or 500x, its possible to set up patches that have both modeled and magnetic pickup signals both turned on. This is great for dual amp processing and getting a big sound, but if you use an alternate tuning, will sound as you describe.

* Its also now possible in 2.0 to STORE a modeled guitar that also includes the magnetic pickup signal simultaneously. You dont need a pod for this functionality, but you must have specifically programmed this in Workbench and stored it in the guitar.

[guitarno]

  Thanks a lot you guys. I appreciate your input. I will be digging into this over the weekend. Hopefully I can find out what's causing it, or at least eliminate some things that are not causing it.

[guitarno]

Just an update on this issue:

   I have reloaded the firmware several times to several different versions, and since reloading the firmware the last time, I have repeatedly tried to record the "Ghost Notes" when I thought I was having a problem, but the recordings came out clean. I will occasionally hear some faint digital artifacts (warbling or fluttering) in the recorded sound, but no "Doubled" or "Ghost" notes. The last time I was recording to try to document this issue, I had recorded what appeared to be doubled notes on the top 2 strings. I realized however, that I wasn't muting the other strings when plucking the string I was recording, and when I muted the other strings, and re-recorded it with the same model & tunings, the doubled notes were not there, so in that case it was just other strings ringing with a harmonic of the plucked string.

   I think this is now a Non-issue for me. Initially, I was for sure having an issue with this, and had recorded some examples & submitted them to Line 6 on a support ticket. They verified that the extraneous notes were indeed there. Now they appear to be gone. When I have heard it and thought it might be more than just acoustic resonance, I tried recording it, and it's not there on the recording. Maybe reloading the firmware again fixed it? 'm not sure what to say about this right now. The "Ghost Note" problem may be a real ghost.

This guitar is very resonant – it rings like a bell, which is a good thing, but as far as it relates to the digitally altered tunings, it makes it harder to mask the acoustic sound of the strings. This particular guitar also has a real resonant peak at F# - the 4th fret of the D (4th) string really dominates when using the acoustic models. I'm finding that I have to roll off the volume of the 4th string to avoid that note from feeding back acoustically when using these models. I also am reducing the 3rd string volume, but not because of a resonance, that whole string is a little louder.

   I recently played with this guitar in a live setting using the guitar straight into someone else's amp, dry with no effects and no distortion to speak of, and at the somewhat moderate volume we were playing at, using acoustic models with altered tunings on the JTV, I really didn't have any issues. The volume we were playing at which was not really very loud, was enough to mask the un-altered notes.

  So for the present, unless something changes, this is no longer an issue. I did check the things you guys suggested, and while having the ability to mix in the mags with the models is a nice feature, you absolutely can't do that with altered tunings. I have been careful to make sure that isn't turned on in the models by default. There probably should be some mechanism to prevent using this feature and alternate tunings at the same time, but maybe you can't idiot-proof everything.

Thanks for your advice! Appreciate the input. 

[Elantric]

Just an update - if DSP Alt Tuning is important part of your life, consider the Antares ATG-1 - 
In 2015 its the best there is
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=13067.0

[Elantric]

Here are the default tunings for the Tyler Variax

STANDARD:           E, A, D, G, B, E
DROP D:                 D(-2), A(-1), D(-1), G(-1), B(-1), E(-1)
1/2 DOWN (all -1):  Eb, Ab, Db, Gb, Bb, Eb
DROP Db:               Db(-3), Ab(-1), Db(-1), Gb(-1), Bb(-1), Eb(-1)
1 DOWN(all -2):       D, G, C, F, A, D
DADGAD:                D(-2), A, D, G, A(-2), D(-2)
OPEN D:                  D(-2), A, D, F#(-1), A(-2), D(-2)
BLUES G:                D(-2), G(-2), D, G, B, D(-2)
RESO G:                  G(+3), B(+2), D, G, B, D(-2)
OPEN A:                   E, A, C#(-1), E(-3), A(-2), E
BARITONE (all -5):   B, E, A, D, F#, B