FluxFX & itrack dock focusrite

Started by Brak(E)man, September 26, 2017, 08:24:58 AM

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Brak(E)man

When using FluxFX I'm playing through irig , Jamup, FluxFX, Loopy HD , so no external signal therefore no difference in latency. I'm using the FX blend a lot.

I'm thinking of expanding my minimal rig : Boss GP-10 & Boss DD-20 , with itrack dock focusrite , ipad 9,7 and FluxFX 
using direct monitoring on the itrack dock focusrite would set me off with the FLUXFX but I don't want to add latency.
So how to do it ?? can't wrap my head around it , in need of a helping hand ( brain ). any ideas ?

(I don't want to add extra gear  apart fom itrack dock focusrite and an Ipad, I'm hesitant to add these two but Flux FX has got me hooked.)
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

admin

#1
Id go GK13 pin Guitar > GP-10 GK 13 input  - GP-10 Stereo Out > itrack dock (running IOS FluxFX) Line Stereo Inputs - iTrack Dock Stereo Outputs   > Stereo Inputs on DD-20.

https://static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/DD-20_OM.pdf

Vaultnaemsae

I don't really understand your intended signal chain...could you explain a little more, please?
Vaultnaemsae's SoundCloud:
https://soundcloud.com/vaultnaemsae

Brak(E)man

If it works without latency clashing issues I'd go
GP-10 stereo out to line in stereo itrack dock direkt monitor and fluxfx out stereo out to line in stereo dd20 ( or maybe use loopy hd on iPad )

It's the direkt monitor and the itrack ,IPad , FluxFX latency difference that concerns me

(I would like to avoid adding latency to GP10 by using the direkt monitor on itrack dock
Instead of the signal going through the iPad except for the fx from flux.)
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

Elantric

#4
Insert a mixer and run Itrack Dock in a  parallel Audio path

But many FluxFX sounds work best when Audio path is run in Series - but latency will  be dependent on your iPad Model  / IOS version.

I get best results with IOS 9.3 on iPad Pro 12.7" on iTrack Dock  - use a short Lighting extender cable to accommodate the larger iPad Pro
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=10364.25


https://store.upserve.com/products/breadcrumb-slice-stand-8pin-lightning-extension-cable

Brak(E)man

#5
Quote from: Elantric on September 26, 2017, 10:57:44 AM
Insert a mixer and run Itrack Dock in a  parallel Audio path

But many FluxFX sounds work best when Audio path is run in Series - but latency will  be dependent on your iPad Model  / IOS version.

I get best results with IOS 9.3 on iPad Pro 12.7" on iTrack Dock  - use a short Lighting extender cable to accommodate the larger iPad Pro
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=10364.25


Yes but is it possible with the itrack to have both direkt monitor and the sound from FluxFX ?
(The latency should be the same with a mixer or not, if the direkt monitor + fluxFX sound works together.)
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

Elantric

#6


https://d2zjg0qo565n2.cloudfront.net/sites/default/files/focusrite/downloads/20358/itrack-dock-user-guideen.pdf
QuoteUsing Direct Monitoring
You will frequently hear the term "latency" used in connection with digital audio systems. In the case
of the simple recording application described above, latency will be the time it takes for your input
signals to pass through your iPad and audio recording app. Latency can be a problem for a performer
who wishes to record while monitoring their input signals.
The iTrack Dock is fitted with a "Direct Monitoring" option, which completely overcomes this problem.
Selecting DIRECT MONITOR will route your input signals directly to the iTrack Dock's monitor and
headphone outputs. This enables you to hear yourself with zero latency – i.e., in "real time" – along
with the recording app playback. The input signals to the recording app are not affected in any way
by this setting.
When Direct Monitoring is set ON, ensure that your recording app is not set to route its input (what
you are currently recording) to its output. If it is, you will hear yourself "twice", with one signal
audibly delayed as an echo.

Brak(E)man

Thanx
I know it'll work with a recording app like loopy HD or GarageBand

It should work with Flux:FX but I can't try it.
So I'm not 100 that it would work or how the latency would sound.
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

Brak(E)man

I did a quick test running Steinberg into GP-10 and guitar out into irig audiobus 2 Jamup and flux:fx back into aux in on the GP-10 , it sounds fantastic !! And no latency issue. I'm down to 128 samples buffer.
Maybe I'll record some tomorrow and put it up here.
If I can use the itrack dock the way I'm hoping then problem solved.
I could run it the way I was doing now but the problem being the different
Guitar sounds from GP-10 and Jamup.
If anyone with focusrite itrack dock and flux could try the direkt monitor approach
before I buy a itrack it would be apriciated.
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

Brak(E)man

Quote from: Brak(E)man on September 26, 2017, 12:45:36 PM
If anyone with focusrite itrack dock and flux could try the direkt monitor approach
before I buy a itrack it would be apriciated.

No one ?
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

Brak(E)man

From focusrite
So no stereo in direct monitor mode.
The latency is not an issue though

QuoteThe direct monitoring feature will sum and equally distribute inputs 1 and 2 to both left and right outputs. While sending the direct signal to both outputs, it will also allow stereo software output. This cannot be modified.

For the software output, the iTrack Dock is seen on the iOS device as a interface with two outputs. As to whether or not the signal is stereo or mono will depend upon the application utilized. One way to think of it is software output 1 goes to the left output of software output 2 to the right on the iTrack Dock. If needing the software output to be mono, it would require configuring the application to not apply stereo processing and equally distribute channels to output 1 and 2.
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

Smash

Use AUM mixer app on ipad. Flux FX as insert on one channel and just straight L&R input on another.

It's a great app - I use it for multiple synths in iOS plus running Bias FX all sided by side.

Have a look: http://kymatica.com/aum/

Brak(E)man

I'm guessing the latency is about the same, but thanx for the pointer, I'll check it out.
The sound from direct monitor is better but ...
My problem now is that Flux doesn't work with Audiobus
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

Smash


Brak(E)man

Quote from: Smash on September 11, 2018, 09:11:21 AM
Worse than Brexit!
like Brexit an update seems like it's not happening, being part British I'm not sad about that but the Flux deserves a better faith
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

Brak(E)man

Modifications will commence next week.
Hopefully I'll have direct monitor in stereo.

I really don't understand why one would leave out stereo at all.
It's the same with most guitar gear also.
Like the ehx freeze fi
Stupid imho
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

Brak(E)man

Removing 2 resistors should do the trick
Report on fail or succes coming up
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

Smash


Brak(E)man

After a long detour into different areas I'm about to modify the soundcard.
Before I go ahead.
Does anyone see any disadvantages with the direct monitoring ?
I see two things that might be of concern.
I have to adjust the fx mix with output level instead of mix in Flux.
And I might have to figure out to cut down the direct level in the fx to avoid
a double signal with latency issues.

Any feedback appreciated 
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

Smash

Don't throw the resistors away? :)

Fingers crossed

Brak(E)man

Update
Modification done.
So far it works beautifully.
The sound is perfect and in stereo both direct monitor and the fx.
The presets has to be tweak a bit differently in Flux but it's a small price to pay.

swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

admin

Quote from: Brak(E)man on February 20, 2019, 10:03:49 AM
Update
Modification done.
So far it works beautifully.
The sound is perfect and in stereo both direct monitor and the fx.
The presets has to be tweak a bit differently in Flux but it's a small price to pay.

Pics?

Brak(E)man

I don't have any pics since I don't do stuff like this myself.
I have a tech guy to do it for me.
But I have this from Focusrite


QuoteI've had a little look into this for you, and theoretically I believe you could remove R164 and R162 to give you a stereo direct monitor, however please note this is completely untested so we cannot confirm the reliability of modding your iTrack Dock in this way - there is the potential it may have adverse effects on performance.

Modding your unit will also void any warranty you may have on your device, so please do keep this in mind if you do decide to go ahead and try modifying your unit.
Best Regards,

Dan Stephens // Service Engineer
Focusrite Novation Service Department


swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch