OT: How Apple ruined my day as a musician

Started by pasha811, September 24, 2017, 10:09:25 PM

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pasha811

Yesterday, in the eve of High Sierra I decided to download Sierra and upgrade from Mavericks my Late 2013 iMac (the thin one).
I have Superduper so I made a bootable copy before hand.
The upgrade went fine. Sierra booted with no problem.
Then.. I had to upgrade my 23K iPhoto library to Photos. Usually, as the Mac is used by myself and my wife we share iTunes and iPhoto library as well as DAW software. We have two users on board.
First glitch.. Photos does not allow sharing of Library because to do so needs a disk (external) where it can ignore the permissions.
Done. Then I discovered that I made a mistake in 2006 with iPhoto library as it started as externally managed so some pictures are outside the library but referenced. This was a major block in moving the library to external drive as it will reference material on the original drive anyway. No problem, exported the content and re-imported in a new Photos library on external drive. Then I discovered that if you import your albums from a folders tree you will not get Albums in Photos. Luckily someone wrote an Apple Script to do it. The import was long but it worked. Unfortunately, after that I discovered the glitch of glitches... my CPU went 115%!!! the CPU temperature to 65 Centigrade and the bus chip to 80, while the drive was silently (SSD) crunching.
You can't turn off People searching for faces.. and on a huge library runs forever. Moreover the forced idea that you should store your stuff in the Cloud didn't help either. Well, it was too much. I hit Superduper and reverted back to Mavericks. Good old robust Mavericks.

Sierra works fine with Roland Hardware I own, VG99, GP10, GT-1 and with FC202A Audio Card FW from Behringer plus BCF2000 and Novation Launchpad. The evil side of Apple is that they think they can dictate what someone can or cannot do with their hardware. If you are a musician with a big photo library stay away. We need CPU to make music not to be wasted in facial recognition. Looking for a Photos alternatives now, and in the end an Apple alternative, as I am a  musician, with a big photo library.. with all those faces inside. Photos is a gigantic misstep.

Dual-boot is an option but I am very disappointed anyway. It just works..that way.

Cheers
Pasha
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

Brak(E)man

Never update unless you're forced to.
I'm still on 10.3 , 10.6 and 10.10
When I have to update I always start off with an external boot drive
and keep the old system.
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

rolandvg99

#2
I'm retiring my Macs gradually. Macs ain't what they used to be. My Windows 10 systems does all my Macs do and then some. Audio latency with my Motu 8M setup is just as fast on Windows as it is in MacOS, and I can upgrade how I want, when I want and fix my own stuff quickly.


I'm dead tired of arrogant hardware/software policies.
To V or not to V: That is the question.

My little Soundcloud corner

pasha811

Quote from: Brak(E)man on September 25, 2017, 01:08:27 AM
Never update unless you're forced to.
I'm still on 10.3 , 10.6 and 10.10
When I have to update I always start off with an external boot drive
and keep the old system.

I followed your suggestion and that's why I am safely back to Mavericks!  ;D ;D
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

Brak(E)man

It's crap really that we're forced to update a working system.
Apple used to be ok but it's becoming less and less user friendly
in this respect
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

gumbo

Quote from: Brak(E)man on September 25, 2017, 02:39:49 AM
It's crap really that we're forced to update a working system.
Apple used to be ok but it's becoming less and less user friendly
in this respect


...I'm still hanging out there on a very(!) slender piece of string running 10.6.8 and wondering just how much longer I can keep this up...but it's definitely worth the effort....  at least so far  :o

I have this feeling that it won't be all that long before I have to totally separate my 'Online Activities' from just about anything involved in my music, run two machines with different OS, and be VERY careful how I let them talk to each other...

...sigh

a big chunky bite taken out of the Apple, that's for sure.... :'(

Peter
Read slower!!!   ....I'm typing as fast as I can...

BMapson

I'm going to run my 2012 Mac mini and 2012 MBPro into the ground.  I don't do anything else on them aside from audio/performance.  I no longer update them, and they don't get any access to the Internet.  Ever.  They're both on Yosemite (10.10) and will be for the rest of their useful lives.

Moving forward, I'm likely going to use purpose-built small PCs running Windows (like Gigabyte Brix or the like) that I can mount in my rack and/or commodity laptops that are specific to the task and used for nothing else.

Apple stopped caring about their PCs when their main business became smart devices.  I know plenty of content creators who either begrudgingly stick to the mac platform and complain mightily about the lack of attention or have moved away because of it.

The last time I read Apple's financial information (and it's been a while), they were nearing $60B in *cash* on hand.  It would be trivial for them to dump a some money into this segment of their business.  It is simply not important to them anymore.

pasha811

Quote from: BigMapson on September 25, 2017, 05:23:18 AM
The last time I read Apple's financial information (and it's been a while), they were nearing $60B in *cash* on hand.  It would be trivial for them to dump a some money into this segment of their business.  It is simply not important to them anymore.

You're right. I think it's not about the money, it's about arrogant design.
Switch off a feature in a software or making it intelligent enough to use my CPU idle time with a CPU cap of let's say 5% it's ok but this, taking over my CPU when idle it's even worse than Windows 10!
My iMac after 4 years it's getting hotter because of dust in the inside but I did not ask for a machine that I cannot pry open and the noisy fan it's a clear indication of obstructed or not optimal air flow. I like their design and OS though. If only they could spend a tad of their time and opt for design that facilitates people doing their work like it was in the old days..  ???
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

GuitarBuilder

I run my DAW and music apps on a Mac Pro with Yosemite.  No issues whatsoever.

I've experimented with El Capitan and got reasonable results; some of my older Firewire interface vendors did not upgrade their drivers.  They issued new hardware for USB3 and Thunderbolt instead; that's not Apple's fault.  My DAW and music apps are fine with El Capitan.  The technology is moving at an astounding pace and hardware obsolescence is the major problem in my opinion.
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

pasha811

Quote from: GuitarBuilder on September 25, 2017, 09:46:41 AM
I run my DAW and music apps on a Mac Pro with Yosemite.  No issues whatsoever.

I've experimented with El Capitan and got reasonable results; some of my older Firewire interface vendors did not upgrade their drivers.  They issued new hardware for USB3 and Thunderbolt instead; that's not Apple's fault.  My DAW and music apps are fine with El Capitan.  The technology is moving at an astounding pace and hardware obsolescence is the major problem in my opinion.

Yes and no. I use Firewire as well. Firewire works with Sierra. My Audio Card is a Behringer FC202A and has no drivers, it's based on CoreAudio, it's 11 years old. My MIDI device is based on CoreMIDI. Those stacks, excellent in the last 10 years after the PowerPc to Intel architecture conversion of Apple's lineup, are still there. Nowadays Firewire has been left aside because of its speed not because of its 'special' capabilities in audio. Vendors who do not upgrade their drivers are simply very 'clever' to create programmed obsolescence. Roland did good with VG99 support for 10 years. So it's the vendors, not technology. Having Thunderbolt 3 audio card is simply insane if you have 4 channels plus MIDI to transfer. Many vendors still rely on USB 2.0. Less investments, more margin. Firewire is still a superior protocol for Audio but the decision to ditch it was Apple's. I use it hooked to a Thunderbolt 1 to FW800 adapter and it works fine.
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/



aliensporebomb

That's why when I went to Sierra I didn't bother going to Photos: I stuck with iPhoto by copying it to an external drive them moving it back when the process was over.  It works fine.  No need for a stupid long excessive importing process.  I've never used Photos because they took away things I used previously.

I also bought Lightroom by Adobe which basically had all the features that Aperture did that I considered getting but didn't get abandonware status. 
So that's the big photo editor but iPhotos is the cataloger (for now).

I do run a boot camp partition on the other side of this machine for windows specific tasks.  But it's not a build process I'd recommend to anyone who isn't a windows sysadmin by day (I am).




My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

gumbo

Quote from: aliensporebomb on September 25, 2017, 03:57:17 PM
That's why when I went to Sierra I didn't bother going to Photos: I stuck with iPhoto by copying it to an external drive them moving it back when the process was over.  It works fine.  No need for a stupid long excessive importing process.  I've never used Photos because they took away things I used previously.

I also bought Lightroom by Adobe which basically had all the features that Aperture did that I considered getting but didn't get abandonware status. 
So that's the big photo editor but iPhotos is the cataloger (for now).

I do run a boot camp partition on the other side of this machine for windows specific tasks.  But it's not a build process I'd recommend to anyone who isn't a windows sysadmin by day (I am).


..yeah...I'm trying (!) to LESSEN the time I spend figuring out what the s#!t happens on the other side of the screen of my iMacs, and spend more time actually making music...but I swear it gets more difficult every week..  ::)

Read slower!!!   ....I'm typing as fast as I can...

pasha811

Quote from: aliensporebomb on September 25, 2017, 03:57:17 PM
That's why when I went to Sierra I didn't bother going to Photos: I stuck with iPhoto by copying it to an external drive them moving it back when the process was over.  It works fine.  No need for a stupid long excessive importing process.  I've never used Photos because they took away things I used previously.

I also bought Lightroom by Adobe which basically had all the features that Aperture did that I considered getting but didn't get abandonware status. 
So that's the big photo editor but iPhotos is the cataloger (for now).

I do run a boot camp partition on the other side of this machine for windows specific tasks.  But it's not a build process I'd recommend to anyone who isn't a windows sysadmin by day (I am).

Ops I didn't know you could use iPhoto under Sierra but know I know I could give it another try. I see you work in IT as I do. Cool. ;D
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

pasha811

#15
Quote from: Elantric on September 25, 2017, 12:03:10 PM
https://www.infoworld.com/article/2615813/laptop-computers/how-to-cope-with-the-end-of-firewire.html

Thanks Elantric, exactly how I run today:

"..The seemingly obvious solution to a FireWire ouster is the one Apple released this fall: its $29 Thunderbolt to FireWire Adapter. This one-way adapter (you can't use it to convert a Mac FireWire interface to Thunderbolt) supports a FireWire 800 attachment; you can then use a FireWire 800-to-FireWire 400 conversion cable to attach FireWire 400 devices..."

Actually I have two. One for Audio Card (TB-->FW800-->FW400) and one for an hard drive (TB-->FW800).
They work fine.
The current iMac is better with ports. With two USB-C (Gen 2) / TB3 ports you can have powerful USB-C to USB 3.0 Hubs and double the number of USB 3 ports you have on different channels without breaking the bank. If I move to a new iMac sometimes in the future I might decide to say goodbye to all FW equipment. In theory a TB3-->TB2 adapter might be connected to a TB1 plus FW but the chain in my Audio will be made of 3 adapters.. crazy. So USB 3 or TB1 (still need adapter from TB3 to TB2) audio card it's the way to go, or USB 2 new Roland (Rubix line, UA55)  or Motu still has enough power for me.  Sure moving to a new iMac will be expensive, also because I'll have to replace Audio card and some peripherals (Scanner, Printer) if they fall out of support. 
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

alexmcginness

#16
Quote from: rolandvg99 on September 25, 2017, 01:31:04 AM
I'm retiring my Macs gradually. Macs ain't what it used to be. My Windows 10 systems does all my Macs do and then some. Audio latency with my Moto 8M setup is just as fast on Windows as it is in MacOS, and I can upgrade how I want, when I want and fix my own stuff quickly.


I'm dead tired of arrogant hardware/software policies.

I had a Mac Book Pro for two years and finally sold it. My W7 PCs do what the Mac does and since I now have a Triple Play I have no need for the Mac at all.
  As far as the OS goes. Why would you upgrade any OS if what you have is doing the job?
VG-88V2, GR-50, GR-55, 4 X VG-99s,2 X FC-300,  2 X GP-10 AXON AX 100 MKII, FISHMAN TRIPLE PLAY,MIDX-10, MIDX-20, AVID 11 RACK, BEHRINGER FCB 1010, LIVID GUITAR WING, ROLAND US-20, 3 X GUYATONE TO-2. MARSHALL BLUESBREAKER, SERBIAN ELIMINATOR AMP. GR-33.

rolandvg99

My Mac Mini runs Yosemite 10.10.5. MacBook pro on Mavericks. My guess is that these will stay on current versions until they both die. I gave my 2nd Mac Mini to my 12 year old and it's running Windows 10. As of now there are no Macs I would like to buy. Looking at the Intel NUC platform for my next rack mount PC.


Was about to splash out for an iPad Pro 10.5, but after a 2 hour test run I went on and ordered a pair of AudioFly AF180 instead. Too much crackling and dropouts to be of any use with my USB recording solutions. And I sorely missed the option to use an external pointing device when needed (Logitech M570). My iPad 3 is doing Mackie DL1608 duties only, but while the Pro was a massive improvement speed wise it still suffered those recording dropouts.
To V or not to V: That is the question.

My little Soundcloud corner

vtgearhead

Quote from: rolandvg99 on September 25, 2017, 01:31:04 AM
I'm retiring my Macs gradually. Macs ain't what it used to be. My Windows 10 systems does all my Macs do and then some. Audio latency with my Moto 8M setup is just as fast on Windows as it is in MacOS, and I can upgrade how I want, when I want and fix my own stuff quickly.


I'm dead tired of arrogant hardware/software policies.

And Windows taking it upon itself to decide when and if software upgrades take place isn't arrogant?  I've written off Windows 10 as a platform for creative or technical purposes.  At least with Windows 7 I can pretend to control my own device.

rolandvg99

Quote from: snhirsch on September 26, 2017, 07:05:46 AM
And Windows taking it upon itself to decide when and if software upgrades take place isn't arrogant?  I've written off Windows 10 as a platform for creative or technical purposes.  At least with Windows 7 I can pretend to control my own device.


The fact that Apple refused to support 3. party SSDs to protect their overpriced hardware was the last straw. Had some hard times after upgrading from 10.8 to 10.9 to 10.10 both on my MacMinis and my MacBook Pro. Windows 10 has been flawless for my use. Microsoft are still arrogant, but at least they give me an option to customize my own hardware.
To V or not to V: That is the question.

My little Soundcloud corner

GuitarBuilder

Quote from: pasha811 on September 25, 2017, 11:48:38 AM
Yes and no. I use Firewire as well. Firewire works with Sierra. My Audio Card is a Behringer FC202A and has no drivers, it's based on CoreAudio, it's 11 years old. My MIDI device is based on CoreMIDI. Those stacks, excellent in the last 10 years after the PowerPc to Intel architecture conversion of Apple's lineup, are still there. Nowadays Firewire has been left aside because of its speed not because of its 'special' capabilities in audio. Vendors who do not upgrade their drivers are simply very 'clever' to create programmed obsolescence. Roland did good with VG99 support for 10 years. So it's the vendors, not technology. Having Thunderbolt 3 audio card is simply insane if you have 4 channels plus MIDI to transfer. Many vendors still rely on USB 2.0. Less investments, more margin. Firewire is still a superior protocol for Audio but the decision to ditch it was Apple's. I use it hooked to a Thunderbolt 1 to FW800 adapter and it works fine.

I was not implying that Firewire did not work; on the contrary, I have plenty of Firewire devices that still work fine, because the manufacturers did a good job on firmware or drivers.  Not that lucky with some hardware interfaces.
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

vtgearhead

Quote from: rolandvg99
The fact that Apple refused to support 3. party SSDs to protect their overpriced hardware was the last straw.

Back in the days of classic Mac OS and SCSI drives, Apple's disk utility software refused to recognize any disk not running Apple OEM firmware.  It took very little time before third-party setup and partitioning tools appeared.  Apple themselves eventually gave up and started supporting anything that identified as a mass storage device on the SCSI bus. 

Are there really no third-party utilities or drivers to enable installation of non-Apple SSDs? 

Elantric

#22
Quote from: snhirsch on September 26, 2017, 09:56:55 AM
Back in the days of classic Mac OS and SCSI drives, Apple's disk utility software refused to recognize any disk not running Apple OEM firmware.  It took very little time before third-party setup and partitioning tools appeared.  Apple themselves eventually gave up and started supporting anything that identified as a mass storage device on the SCSI bus. 

Are there really no third-party utilities or drivers to enable installation of non-Apple SSDs?

Rule #1 - never trust what Apple Support tells you

Contact OWC for Mac SSD upgrade solutions
https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/ssd/owc

Macbook Pro SSD Upgrades
https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/ssd/owc/macbook-pro-retina-display/2013-2014-2015

iMac SSD Upgrades
https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/ssd/owc/imac

GuitarBuilder

Quote from: snhirsch on September 26, 2017, 09:56:55 AM
Back in the days of classic Mac OS and SCSI drives, Apple's disk utility software refused to recognize any disk not running Apple OEM firmware.  It took very little time before third-party setup and partitioning tools appeared.  Apple themselves eventually gave up and started supporting anything that identified as a mass storage device on the SCSI bus. 

Are there really no third-party utilities or drivers to enable installation of non-Apple SSDs?

I installed a Crucial SSD in my MacBook Pro without any problems.  No utilities or drivers needed.  The bottom line is that you need to buy an Apple-compatible SSD.
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

rolandvg99

Quote from: GuitarBuilder on September 26, 2017, 10:46:37 AM
I installed a Crucial SSD in my MacBook Pro without any problems.  No utilities or drivers needed.  The bottom line is that you need to buy an Apple-compatible SSD.


Got all three back up and running each time, but these upgrades clogged "security holes", according to Apple, and had me working for hours trying to fix index errors and sloooow access. Crucial MX100 512 GB and 2 Samsung disks - 840 and 850 both 512 GB
To V or not to V: That is the question.

My little Soundcloud corner