GR-55, GK-3B, tracking and ghost notes

Started by diogobaeder, September 05, 2017, 08:31:07 PM

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diogobaeder

Hey there!

I'm still in the very beginning of using GK-3B and GR-55 with my bass, but I'd like to share some thoughts and, hopefully, receive a few more from other people too. I'd be glad if this helps other bass players as well who are still at the early stages of using this set of amazing tools. I'm using them with a 5-string JB-style bass.

First and foremost, the obvious: READ THE MANUAL. I know, this should be a no-brainer, but I know quite a few people who like to not read much of manuals and instead just go ahead and experiment the stuff. I myself sometimes do this, if what I'm dealing with is a simple tool, but this kit is quite a bit complex to setup.

So, upon reading the manual, the things that helped me the most to get a better performance of the kit were:
- Proper positioning of the pickup (I'm still going to improve mine, I ended up having a 3mm height distance over my B string, which is double the recommendation - 1.5mm)
- Configuring the positions of the pickup for each string;
- Configuring the sensitivity for each string;
- Playing VERY cleanly - I almost feel like it's a whole new instrument, I do make a few noisy moves every now and then and this affects A LOT the performance I get from the PCM tones (not so much the modeled tones though). This doesn't bother me or other players when I play through normal pickups, but it affects the PCM tones quite a bit, so I had to start watching my index finger much more and stop using my own natural ghost notes (they perform very poorly over PCM tones too);
- Low strings perform really poorly, specially the B string, which has a considerable tracking delay (I'd say around 1/4 of a second), for PCM sounds (not so much for the modeled tones, these ones respond fine); so I learned a neat trick: I just play one octave higher, and transpose the tones to one octave lower, so that they sound the same as I want them to, but with better tracking and less GK "ghost notes" (those weird notes that jump into the mix unintentionally). Before this trick, I was really frustrated at the bad tracking and large amount of ghost notes I was having, but now I'm getting a pretty decent performance at the higher register of my fretboard;
- To my disappointment (well, actually I kind of understand why this was made as is), the pickup selector only works with dry signal when you use the GUITAR OUT output from GR-55, so I lost quite a few hours trying to understand why the heck I was not getting both GK and dry signals from the same GR-55 output, only to find that I needed to enable the "NORMAL PICKUP" from every tone I wanted to have the normal pickup sound. So a dirty trick I did was to build a Y-cable that mixes both "OUTPUT" and "GUITAR OUT" from the GR-5 into one mono P10, hence being able to have both signals from my GR-55 and making it much easier to use the pickup selector from my GK-3B. (Note: I really don't care about amp simulation that I could get from the "NORMAL PICKUP" configuration, just the dry tone is enough for me since my rig is good enough for me)

Now, besides the manual, I highly recommend everyone to read this document put up by shawnb: https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=6972.0 - it has helped me a lot, to get better performance of the kit, solving tracking issues and lessening ghost notes.

One thing I also highly recommend is everyone to use gumtown's GR-55 FloorBoard software - https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2951.0 -, it makes changing tones and configurations a breeze, it's much easier to use this software than doing all these changes from the GR-55 gear itself - besides allowing you to backup configurations and/or patches. I did however have to connect my GR-55 to my audio interface through MIDI cables, and not USB, because I use Linux and it just doesn't work at all through USB. Through MIDI it runs just fine. (Sorry, this is actually a hint for Linux users, not bass players, but anyway...)

Something else I'm going to try soon is to use a fretboard mute (I tried the "Fump" one for the bridge, but it sucks, so later I'm going to try the fretboard one instead), to reduce string vibration leftovers and harmonic resonance, and see if this reduces the amount of GK ghost notes.

Anyway, I hope this helps other bass players out there who might be struggling to get a better performance and sound of their kits.

Cheers!
Diogo
Diogo Baeder - Software developer and bass player

dnieper

Hello Diogo, looks like good advice.  I just started with mine as well (guitar instead of bass).  I also use Linux and have had no problems running GR-55 FloorBoard using USB.  I'm running Kubuntu 16.04 64.  Did your GR-55 show up in the Settings->Preferences->USB/MIDI list of devices?

bassman4d521

Fellow bassist and GR55/VB99 user.  The fretwrap does help cut down a bit on pesky overtones especially on my 6 string basses.  One thing that I do if I'm using PCM tones to to turn them off on the lower strings so that I don't have to deal with the latency.  I've read another thing to try is to string up with piccolo bass strings and shift the COSM bass down an octave - I've got a set on order so we shall see how this sounds. 

I've found that pads and strings can still work well on the lower notes as long as you're not playing quickly - a nice trick is to start the pad going and then holding it so keep it steady while continuing to play.

diogobaeder

Quote from: dnieper on September 06, 2017, 12:21:35 AM
Hello Diogo, looks like good advice.  I just started with mine as well (guitar instead of bass).  I also use Linux and have had no problems running GR-55 FloorBoard using USB.  I'm running Kubuntu 16.04 64.  Did your GR-55 show up in the Settings->Preferences->USB/MIDI list of devices?

Hey dnieper!

The device does get listed, and also shows up via the "lsusb" command; however, all patches show up in FloorBoard named as "bad data", and the software keeps complaining about not connecting correctly to the pedal. However, it runs just fine through MIDI cables, which is what I'm using now, so it's not a big issue for me - I just have an unused spare USB cable here now :-)

Cheers!
Diogo
Diogo Baeder - Software developer and bass player

diogobaeder

Quote from: bassman4d521 on September 06, 2017, 05:57:54 AM
Fellow bassist and GR55/VB99 user.  The fretwrap does help cut down a bit on pesky overtones especially on my 6 string basses.  One thing that I do if I'm using PCM tones to to turn them off on the lower strings so that I don't have to deal with the latency.  I've read another thing to try is to string up with piccolo bass strings and shift the COSM bass down an octave - I've got a set on order so we shall see how this sounds. 

I've found that pads and strings can still work well on the lower notes as long as you're not playing quickly - a nice trick is to start the pad going and then holding it so keep it steady while continuing to play.

Nice, bassman4d521! I'm eager to hear how the results will be after you try out those strings :-)

So, you turn off the PCM tones on the lower strings, but not the modeled and normal tones, right?!

Cheers,
Diogo
Diogo Baeder - Software developer and bass player

diogobaeder

Quote from: dnieper on September 06, 2017, 12:21:35 AM
Hello Diogo, looks like good advice.  I just started with mine as well (guitar instead of bass).  I also use Linux and have had no problems running GR-55 FloorBoard using USB.  I'm running Kubuntu 16.04 64.  Did your GR-55 show up in the Settings->Preferences->USB/MIDI list of devices?

Sorry, dnieper, forgot to say: I'm actually using Arch Linux here, and GNOME as the desktop environment. So my settings are a bit different... but even then, the device gets listed under USB - it even plays the audio from my computer if I use it as the output device, which actually scared the hell out of me when I was first testing it and left my bass amp turned on :-P

But, anyway, MIDI cable was the way to go for me. I was going to use it for other applications anyways, so it was not a bad thing to have to use it for the GR-55.

Cheers,
Diogo
Diogo Baeder - Software developer and bass player

bassman4d521

Quote from: diogobaeder on September 06, 2017, 12:15:16 PM
Nice, bassman4d521! I'm eager to hear how the results will be after you try out those strings :-)

So, you turn off the PCM tones on the lower strings, but not the modeled and normal tones, right?!

Cheers,
Diogo

Yes so that on the B, E, and sometimes A string there are no PCM tones - only bass.  It really depends on what I need for the song.  Trying to play a sixteenth note groove on the E string AND have a horn sound is just going sound awful.  There's a balancing act when you're trying to provide the bass part and sweeten up the instrumentation - the notes you play need to work well with the arrangement and the sounds need to be heard in the whole context of the piece.  I've done the opposite and muted the bass sounds on the upper 2 strings so that I can just have brass sounds when playing those strings.  There really is a great depth to both the GR-55 and, if you get one, VB-99 (although the VB-99 is a bit hard to find for a good price). 

A nice trick I use for organs is to use the VB-99's organ modeling to provide the initial sound... and then have the GR-55 organ swell in to cover.  That way the GR-55 latency is somewhat hidden.

diogobaeder

Nice tricks you have there under your sleeve! :-)

Thanks, mate!
Diogo Baeder - Software developer and bass player