GR-55 - Cross fader via external midi controller?

Started by JiveTurkey, May 28, 2017, 08:40:18 AM

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JiveTurkey

Did a search for this but I'm at my wit's end. Don't yell at me  :P ;D

Can I do cross fading via an external midi controller? I have an AMT Cab IR player Sim unit with expression pedal connected. I want to connect the player to the 55 via midi then do all my cross fading with the external exp pedal. Or use the the onboard GR expression pedal to send a midi message to the ir player to turn off the IR when I bring in the synths. Onboard pedal toe down is all synth. Heel down is all guitar amp tones. Toe down would turn off IR, heel down would turn on IR block.

I would actually rather use the onboard expression pedal to do this but I can' seem to get the GR to work. All the usual suspects have been checked off the list(sending and receiving on the same channel, cable is connected, devices are turned on  ;D ). Suggestions? Give it up and use the onboard cabs?  :D

shawnb

Short answer is yes.   

There's a very similar current thread at the moment, that illustrates strengths and potential pitfalls:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=21048.0;topicseen
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

JiveTurkey

Mods; apologies for putting this in the wrong subforum. Ugh. My brain was hurting at the time of posting  :P

JiveTurkey

#3
My god the unicorns  :-X >:(

I have my GR55 and AMT ir player connected via and for the life of me I CANNOT get the d@mn GR to send the programmed control changes to the AMT. It will send program changes no problem. It isn't wanting to send the CCs for whatever reason. Or it's sending them wrong or they aren't being recognized by the AMT I hooked the GR up to a MidiOX session but my feeble mind can't interpret what I am reading. I am not seeing the CC #s at least. It looks like a bunch of sysex that I have zero experience with. Oddly enough; the SY300 will transmit midi commands to the AMT without any issue. Ugh.

Can you (or anyone) post an editor screenshot of how you have a working patch configured via external expression pedal?

JiveTurkey

Also; @philjynx; is 68 a standardized midi CC for cross fading or is that a custom assign on your end?

Elantric

He would have to set the GR-55 Control assignments Target to Crossfade between PCM &normal guitar - its not a  standardized midi CC command


GR-55 F.A.Q.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3137


*GR-55 Control Assignments
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3868.0


Learn GR-55 Advanced Programming



Guitarplayer_10's  GR-55 Ultimate Multi Control patch step by step
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=7267.msg50612#msg50612


Learn MIDI
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2977.0

JiveTurkey

Quote from:  philjynx on May 30, 2017, 10:46:22 AM
No, not standardized. 68 is quite arbitary, it was just the next CC that my midi controller wasn't already using for something else.
In the GR55 CC68 means nothing until you assign it to something. Here's a typical way to do a crossfade between two tones with CC68 as an example. Note that the minumum and maximum levels are reversed.
Many thanks for the screen shot Phil! We are apparently skipping practice this evening (ugh) so I will (fingers crossed) get some time to mess with it again.

JiveTurkey

Quote from:  philjynx on May 30, 2017, 11:01:01 AM

As far as GR55 sending (as opposed to receiving) CCs have you looked at this in GR55Floorboard?
I have. I have the EXP set to send the CC value the AMT wants to see on it's end but it's not toggling the block like it theoretically should. CTL pedal configured the same way is not working either. The AMT will accept programs changes but it behaves oddly. Every other preset change on the GR activates the tuner on the AMT. I have some trouble shooting to do  :-[

Elantric

Quote from:  JiveTurkey on May 30, 2017, 11:03:09 AM
I have. I have the EXP set to send the CC value the AMT wants to see on it's end but it's not toggling the block like it theoretically should. CTL pedal configured the same way is not working either. The AMT will accept programs changes but it behaves oddly. Every other preset change on the GR activates the tuner on the AMT. I have some trouble shooting to do  :-[

Debug MIDI Controllers
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2975.0

JiveTurkey

Quote from:  philjynx on May 30, 2017, 11:17:20 AM
Not sure if this is possible: Try sending the CC you want direct from Midi-OX to your AMT (whatever that is....)
I'm leaning towards thinking this same thing. I'll work with it a bit this evening and report back. Thanks for the helpful replies.

gumtown

#10
Have a play with cc# numbers +1 or -1 either side,
if the devices number them a little differently (68=hex vs 104=decimal too),
some devices might number 1~128, and other from 0~127.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

JiveTurkey

Quote from:  gumtown on May 30, 2017, 12:48:47 PM
Have a play with cc# numbers +1 or -1 either side,
if the devices number them a little differently (68=hex vs 104=decimal too),
some devices might number 1~128, and other from 0~127.
I did try that thinking the exact same thing but my troubleshooting process was haphazard. To say the absolute least.  >:(

gumtown

And midi channels need to match,
transmit device tx channel = receive device rx channel.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

JiveTurkey

Quote from:  philjynx on May 31, 2017, 10:07:15 AM
Back to that French Horn cross-fade.

There's a ghost in the machine!

I didn't much care for the substituted Tuba, so I reverted to the Solo French Horn. Bet you've already guessed, it is now working perfectly no sudden jump in volume, no sudden sharper tone. I've not changed anything other than the choice of PCM Synth tone!

Perhaps the GR55 just needed a rest.
Glad to hear you have it sorted. Or that it sorted itself  :-X ;D If you have time; post the patch in the preset exchange!

JiveTurkey

#14
Thanks to Philjynx, Mbenigni and everyone else who chimed in. The lynchpin (I think) was the momentary setting in the assigns section.

Condensed version:
I have my GR. I have an external IR player. Guitar tones routed through IR player. When I crossfade to synth tones, I wanted to deactivate the IR block in the player as well. I can do that now via external expression pedal connected to IR player. It turns off the cab block on it and sends accompanying midi data to GR to do the crossfade. If you haven't ran GR amp sims through some 3rd party IRs but have the chance to do so; give it a go. It makes quite a bit of improvement. I dig the stock cabs, but turning off the stock cabs and running through some Celestion IRs just really livens it up a bit. Very pleased to say the least!

admin

Quote from:  JiveTurkey on June 01, 2017, 05:47:16 AM
Thanks to Philjynx, Mbenigni and everyone else who chimed in. The lynchpin (I think) was the momentary setting in the assigns section.

Condensed version:
I have my GR. I have an external IR player. Guitar tones routed through IR player. When I crossfade to synth tones, I wanted to deactivate the IR block in the player as well. I can do that now via external expression pedal connected to IR player. It turns off the cab block on it and sends accompanying midi data to GR to do the crossfade. If you haven't ran GR amp sims through some 3rd party IRs but have the chance to do so; give it a go. It makes quite a bit of improvement. I dig the stock cabs, but turning off the stock cabs and running through some Celestion IRs just really livens it up a bit. Very pleased to say the least!

Which CAB IR simulator unit did you buy?

JiveTurkey

#16



http://amtelectronics.com/new/amt-pangaea-cp-100fx/


I got the AMT CP100FX.


It loads 3rd party IRs plus has built in effects that are quite nice. It also has power amp emulation. Which I haven't tested as I don't have any proper preamp pedlas to give it a go with. Retail price is fairly scary but I got a B stock unit for significantly less. There is an issue with mine and the mfg is doing an exchange as soon as they get me return label. The form factor of this guy is perfect as well.

JiveTurkey

Quote from:  philjynx on June 01, 2017, 10:26:45 AM
Glad you're up and running & glad I sent you that correction to my screen shot!
Me too! Marc said the same thing to me at TGP but I somehow missed it the first go round. There is so much troubleshooting involved and, while I have some skill and experience working with midi and digital rigs; I get frustrated at times and just have to take a step back. Having work, kids and just general life obviously takes precedence as well  :-X ;D

I need to port over the other 6-7 patches I use for live work using this same method of assigns. Then I will need to setup a wah using the GR's exp pedal on my presets and do away with my external wah so it can all fit on my board. The one last hitch beyond that is fine tuning the point on the sweep of the external expression pedal where the speaker impulse turns off. The GR tones are not quite in full synth territory at that point, so in that little spot of the sweep; there are some nasty speaker-cab-less guitar tones going.




I don't try to give myself a headache but I sometimes make it unavoidable  :P ;D