Author Topic: GR-55- Tracking Problems GR 55  (Read 460 times)

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Offline sautersongs

GR-55- Tracking Problems GR 55
« on: May 19, 2017, 04:40:53 AM »
Hello!

First, sorry about my english..
I know this discussion was before in the Forum,anyway I have 2 questions:
Is there a solution for the glichtes and "wrong notes" when using the GR55 Piano sounds?
Is the Primovasound GK FX-1 usefull only for Guitars with Piezo PU or is it usefull for guitars with build in GK 3Kit, too?
I play a PRS with a build in Roland GK Kit and I use the GR 55 with a Roland VG 88 for live gigs. The normal Stringsounds are ok, but when I try to play Pianosounds its not nice, when I left my fingers from the fingerboard, sometimes its making tones and when I change chords, it sounds like there a pitchproblems. I tried to follow the instructions posted in this forum, but I´m not satisfied with the result. Maybe there are new or other solutions?

Greetins from belgium

Heiko Sauter

« Last Edit: May 27, 2017, 04:52:28 PM by admsustainiac »

Online philjynx

Re: Tracking Problems GR 55
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2017, 11:15:34 AM »
Hello!

First, sorry about my english..
I know this discussion was before in the Forum,anyway I have 2 questions:
Is there a solution for the glichtes and "wrong notes" when using the GR55 Piano sounds?
Is the Primovasound GK FX-1 usefull only for Guitars with Piezo PU or is it usefull for guitars with build in GK 3Kit, too?
I play a PRS with a build in Roland GK Kit and I use the GR 55 with a Roland VG 88 for live gigs. The normal Stringsounds are ok, but when I try to play Pianosounds its not nice, when I left my fingers from the fingerboard, sometimes its making tones and when I change chords, it sounds like there a pitchproblems. I tried to follow the instructions posted in this forum, but I´m not satisfied with the result. Maybe there are new or other solutions?

Greetins from belgium

Heiko Sauter

There are some tweaks you can do (sorry, I can't remember them right now) to improve the GR55 with piano - like creating a custom GK pickup setting for your piano patches. The GR55 is known to be particularly poor on paino and somewhere on here is a post regarding Roland addmitting that there's a fault. Some day, perhaps, a manufacturer will come up with a better product - I wish all the manufacturers much luck with that, the mechanics of guitars is such that it is (as far as I can tell) impossible to get a clean, clear note from just one string. There's a lot of talk about cross talk between strings - next to impossible to avoid since all six strings are mechanically connected via the nut, the bridge and the body of the guitar. On a Strat (in particular) there's the reverb generated by the springs attached to the tremolo block, so there's a hell of a lot of 'noise' in a guitar - absent any attempt to drive a synthesiser  all those interactions between the various part of our guitars give them their characteristic sound but all of that hampers any attempt to treat the guitar as a simple input device for a synthesiser to process. Add to that the obivous shortcoming in the software (a lot of the glitches Ihear on paino on the GR55 are way above the range of an actual 88 key piano) and you can see that it's going to be a while before gizmos like this can perform like the sales people would have you believe.

Having said all that, do have a look at the idea of a specific GK (pickup) setting for piano and your physical pickup set up & palm muting - you can get pretty good results - not as good as I've seen with the Fishman Triple play, but good even so.
I am playing all the right notes. But not necessarily in the right order.

Offline JeffTronics

Re: Tracking Problems GR 55
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2017, 04:03:18 PM »
Hi,

I use the Grand Piano patch more than most other GR-55 patches and personally, prefer it over the Piano patches I created in SampleTank using my Triple Play.

There’s a warmth and ambience I get with the GR-55 I do not get with the Triple Play. This probably has to do with the little time I want to spend with a magnifying glass customizing Sample Tank. 

That said, I have a Godin with RMC pickups and do have the filter buffer installed on the GR-55. Before I had the filter installed, I purchased Primovera’s filter and it is handy to have around for other connections. If you have a GK pickup, I’m pretty sure you do not need the filter.

Since a good portion of this site is dedicated to example settings, let me suggest this. Select your Grand Piano patch and spend some time in the System Tab first to make sure you give your pickup settings a Profile name in the GK Settings. This is important if you have multiple guitars with different pickups. I have a strat with a GK and having separate settings saves me time from customizing them over again. Even if you don’t have multiple guitars, it is a good way to save different settings while experimenting.

In the System Tab GK Settings for overall string sensitivity, I prefer to not to have each string at 100 percent. Mine are at 40 for each string because I have RMC pickups. The point is, the higher sensitivity is not always the best. Experiment with each string’s sensitivity. In my case when I pick each string it peaks to about the 3rd dot from the right - the end. I’m not picking too hard or too soft. Also, experiment with finger picking to see the difference.

The VEL tab is important. Here, you can make changes while you play and listen to the piano patch at the same time, and listen to the difference when making changes. You have to spend about 10 to 15 minutes “feeling” the difference with these settings since they give you control for your touch sensitivity a playing technique. You will learn you can control the ghost notes and tracking issues to some degree. However, do not try to make things perfect, here’s why. The final settings will be in the grand piano patch Tone. These system settings are to just get the best global settings for the entire GR-55. All other fine tuning needs to be done in the problem patches.

After you discovered the best settings for your playing, Edit the Grand Piano patch. In my piano patch I’m using 004 St Piano 4. Enter to edit the tone settings. Here is where you customize the piano patch the best you can. Keep in mind, everyone has a different touch and playing style so here again, you need to change these settings while playing, to listen when things get better. In my case I rarely have a ghost note and feel my tracking is on parr with the Fishman Triple play which I use for different setups. If it helps, here are my piano settings.

Chromatic: on
Legato: on
Level Velocity Sensitivity: +10
Velocity Curve Type: Tone
My 5th and 6th String sensitivity for this patch is 80 percent. All other strings are 100. 

Remember, we are guitar players not piano players. So, if you’re starting to play lead guitar with the piano patch, in my opinion you will start having problems with other notes triggering. What philjinx said, the technology isn’t there yet.

The default piano sounds on the GR-55 and Triple Play are incredibly rich with very clear crisp sounding highs. This, is not how a real grand piano sounds. For my settings I shared above, the sound begins to become more neutral because of the sensitivity settings - they are softer, like a real piano. I also shaped the sound using the EQ. My playing is mostly finger-style when playing the piano patch, to accompany other instruments.  I want it to sound like you hear the piano from the outside, and not like you’re on the the inside of the piano.

Best of luck,

JT

Offline shawnb

Re: Tracking Problems GR 55
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2017, 05:51:40 PM »
Hi,

I use the Grand Piano patch more than most other GR-55 patches and personally, prefer it over the Piano patches I created in SampleTank using my Triple Play.

There’s a warmth and ambience I get with the GR-55 I do not get with the Triple Play. This probably has to do with the little time I want to spend with a magnifying glass customizing Sample Tank. 

Bingo.  The Roland series - these guys know what they are doing with guitar synth. 

You can get significantly better tracking with the FTP.  But to build a convincing voice by yourself with some VST somewhere, you gotta work on it... 
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

Offline sautersongs

Re: GR-55- Tracking Problems GR 55
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2017, 05:01:03 AM »
Hi!

Thanks for your informations. :)
I found a way to play the piano pattern "solala", its ok, but not really perfect. When the band is playing with me, its ok.
I found out in the forum, that the filter from primova is not working with GK Kit PU.

Greetings from Belgium

Heiko


 

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