VGuitar Forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: KATANA DEV: Ideas on how to extend functions of Katana knobs and buttons  (Read 201 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

CodeSmart

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Rating: 50
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1225
  • Trying to stay healthy and learn about electronics
    • primovasound.com

We now have various devices/softwares communicating with the Katana. My idea with this thread is to gather ideas on how to extend the Katana user experience while it is in control of your device/software.

Here is my contribution (this is an idea, not tried yet):

SMART KNOBS allowing both DELAY and FX at the same time (or BOOST and Mod)
Description:
a) When a knob is turned slowly or at moderate speed the amplifier behaves like normal. When moving from one "half-side" to the other side the amp will nuke the effect on the side we left and invoke the effects we are entering.
b) NEW! - When a knob is turned FAST from one side to the other, the effect and related setting on the side we just left will remain active using it's last known steady-state value, allowing DUAL effects and tweaking.

Example:
You dial in the delay level, then quickly turn the knob over to the FX side and dial in the FX level. If you want to change the Delay again you quickly move over to the Delay side and tweak that side again etc. As soon as you move the knob slowly passing through the "mid" zone the amp starts behaving like normal, i.e. turns off the "other" side.

How this can be realized:
1. Your device maintain steady-state settings of the knob sides, i.e. the last slow-turn value not changed for a certain amount of time on each side.
2. By looking at the incoming MIDI data it is possible to detect "knob-turn" messages and also calculate the "rate-of-change".
3. If the rate-of-change exceeds a certain threshold, your device will enter "forced mode".
4. While in "forced mode" the knob turn will be detected by your device and it will then immediately send out MIDI commands to keep/force the "other side" alive using the last known "steady-state" value stored.
5. "Forced mode" will be deactivated when passing through the mid zone at slow or moderate knob turn.

« Last Edit: May 13, 2017, 01:55:50 AM by Elantric »
Logged
Got more gear than I need...and I like it!

Elantric

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Rating: 397
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 25074
    • Elantric's Tips and Blog

Excellent



Make it so!

But how?

Do you think a small box with Beaglebone connected via USB can make your suggested user experience possible?

Doubt we can gain access to source code and make necessary firmware hacks on the existing Katana CPU  hardware


« Last Edit: May 13, 2017, 02:03:25 AM by Elantric »
Logged

CodeSmart

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Rating: 50
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1225
  • Trying to stay healthy and learn about electronics
    • primovasound.com

But how?
Do you think a small box with Beaglebone connected via USB can make your suggested user experience possible?
Of course, but personally I'll try to squeeze it into MIDX-20 V2 Katana Bridge Firmware if I can find room for it.

Logged
Got more gear than I need...and I like it!

Elantric

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Rating: 397
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 25074
    • Elantric's Tips and Blog

Quote
I'll try to squeeze it into MIDX-20 V2 Katana Bridge Firmware if I can find room for it.

Maybe dump the mustang code /resources to make room for deeper Katana support  ?

Or allow the MIDX-20 user to install only the version he needs

(mustang mode firmware or Full feature Katana mode firmware
« Last Edit: May 13, 2017, 02:28:26 AM by Elantric »
Logged

stevesilk51

  • Contributing Member
  • ***
  • Rating: 0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 42

Of course, but personally I'll try to squeeze it into MIDX-20 V2 Katana Bridge Firmware if I can find room for it.

Really great idea Codesmart, BUT, unfortunately the cost of a MIDX-20 v2 (I do understand why) + dispatch to the UK , is a bit out of my range atm, together with the fact that the waiting list for them is LOOONNNGGG!

Bit cheeky to ask, as you are the dev,  but is the MIDX 20 the only way to go?
Logged

CodeSmart

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Rating: 50
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1225
  • Trying to stay healthy and learn about electronics
    • primovasound.com

Bit cheeky to ask, as you are the dev,  but is the MIDX 20 the only way to go?
It's not cheeky at all. The intention with this thread was to highlight things that can be implemented regardless of platform. I'm pretty sure Gumtown, Snhirch, Kondor and many others can do this if they want.

And even more ideas would be interesting to hear... :)
Logged
Got more gear than I need...and I like it!

snhirsch

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Rating: 13
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 667

I must be missing something.  That idea would be great as an enhancement to the internal Katana firmware, but where is the gain if you are using an external control device?  In such a case it's possible to bring out separate controls for the two effects and avoid the jumping around.
Logged

Beanow

  • Contributing Member
  • ***
  • Rating: 3
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 94

It's a nice idea, though I agree it won't beat a solution with a GUI.

- You know what effect is assigned to it.
- You know where the effect is chained.
- No volume jumps.
- No accidents with slow vs fast detection.

So I feel like it wouldn't be suited for live performances. Perhaps the only niche I can think of is during band practice if you want to tweak it and haven't got a GUI with you. Or are very insistent on not unplugging the MIDX from your USB port to hook up your smartphone. I mean, if you can bring the amp to practice, certainly a USB-OTG cable and smartphone can be fit in there too.



A feature I would prefer that I quite like on my Pod HD500X is to have multiple effects assigned to a single switch.
It will toggle each of the effects at the same time, allowing you to group effects together or to use it A/B style.

Some use-cases:
- Have a compressor and drive together for a single "solo" switch.
- Have that comp + drive for the solo, adding an EQ to non-solo mode to mix better with your band.
- Use a momentary switch, to turn your normal reverb off and have an aggressive phaser/flanger "warp effect" while pressed down.

Admittedly, a lot of these things could be achieved with preset switching as well. But this will save you the trouble of having to maintain the shared parameters across multiple presets.
And this setup allows you to use combinations as well. To explain, if you did the above examples with presets you might have:

- CH1 for the solo preset.
- CH2 for the normal preset.
- CH3 for your phaser effect.

The chain being:
[Comp > Drive // EQ] > Amp > [Phaser // Reverb]

If you ever felt like using the Comp+Drive solo setting and change up your solo a bit with the phaser effect, you're doomed to take up CH4 with this.
Add a 3rd switch and you're out of presets. You would need 8 for all combinations, not to mention you'll forget which is which.

**Some implementation options**

1. The simplest is to take one preset containing all effects, and manage only the enable/disable state for them. You need a programmable 1..* mapping and whether it's toggle or momentary. And for A/B switching you need to know the current state of each underlying effect.
2. More powerful is to manage the whole chain on the fly. Keep track of which effect modules are free to use, and write all of their parameters and chain order as needed.
a) Either by writing all of it to the panel addresses.
b) Or letting some algorithm determine how to best use CH1-4 to reduce the writes required (could accept custom hints from the user and momentary setting which need to be fastest).

The more elaborate option comes with several drawbacks:
- Obviously is harder to implement, potentially ruling out the MIDX-20 from resource constraints.
- Introduces delay and possible volume jumps while writing parameters.
- There will be impossible combinations where you run out of underlying effect modules to use.
- It will need a patch format other than .tsl. Which breaks BTS compatibility and limits patch sharing options. (Although the simple version might be possible by simply adding non-standard fields to the tsl patches, but odds are other software will either break or remove it when saving changes.)
- Presenting the possibilities and limitations in an understandable way requires significant UX design effort.

Some mitigations of that:
- If the hardware allows for the more elaborate one, it can also support the simpler one.
- snhirsch's bridge shows the delays and jumps can be kept to acceptable levels without overly complex optimization strategies.
- lib-katana could provide a (reference) implementation of custom patch formats that supports all of the above, allowing some degree of compatibility between the 3rd party software.
- The UX problems would be partially solved by using GT-100 / HD500X style interfaces.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2017, 06:47:32 AM by Beanow »
Logged

Beanow

  • Contributing Member
  • ***
  • Rating: 3
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 94

Another idea could be to bind particular parameters to a button.

For example, for an already enabled echo or reverb, assign a switch to change to a positive feedback for hold-like or swell effects.
Going back to the previous value on release (momentary) or pressing again.
Logged

Meesha

  • Active Member
  • **
  • Rating: 0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 23

have no idea if it's possible at all, i'm quite lame at electricity/coding...
just a dream - how i'd wish to control grafx eq with the knob - to move mid range as a wave from negative to positive... and perfect way as well  - if that will change whole line in such manner from preprogrammed all 10 band positions (relative) in patch, not from zero points...

something tells me that it's a dream, that can not be implemented  :-\
Logged

gumtown

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Rating: 195
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4629

in the Katana FxFloorBoard is the EZ-Tone 'thingy'
where you use an X-Y axis (like a joystick) to control your tone, affecting 2 or 3 parameters at the same time in each direction (the whole X-Y control can do up to 6 parameters at one time).
In one case, the amp type is on one axis and the amp gain on the other axis.
For the effects, Chorus, Reverb, and Delay are all controlled, the effect levels and depth, vs time and density, all controlled using X-Y axis.
Logged
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from http://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Meesha

  • Active Member
  • **
  • Rating: 0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 23

wow... i still affraid to try ez-tone, looks like have to give it a go...
can you change the grafx eq interface to more like usual sliders grafx btw, gumtown? that poor current grafx looks awfull for my taste... 😒
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up