GP-10 - Sync GP10 tempo to DAW - help

Started by pasha811, February 26, 2017, 06:08:36 AM

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pasha811

I cannot sync GP10 tempo (delays and other fx) to DAW tempo - Ableton Live.
Any suggestion?
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

Brak(E)man

#1
Maybe this might help

QuoteYou can use control change messages from an USB (computer) to control functions that would be difficult to control using the GP-10's own controllers.
In "Assign Settings (Asgn 1-8:)" of Owner's Manual, set "Source" to "CC#1-#31, CC#64-#95" and set "Target" to specify the parameter that will be controlled.

Maybe not  ???

Or try

Record midi and system exclusive while changing sync tempo on GP 10
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

pasha811

Quote from: Brak(E)man on February 26, 2017, 06:22:25 AM
Maybe this might help

Maybe not  ???

Or try

Record midi and system exclusive while changing sync tempo on GP 10

Thanks. Tried. No joy.
What bugs me is that I didn't have to do anything like this in VG99 to be synced with AL9. Now what I was trying was syncing Ableton Live Tempo (Master) via MIDI clock to GP10 (Slave) so that Delay settings like 'Quarter of a note, Whole note' will put delay FX in sync with Live's tempo but so far no luck. It shouldn't have to be rocket science... I'll look at MIDI implementation..
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

pasha811

GRRRRRRRRR.


MIDI Implementation Guide https://static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/GP-10_MIDI_Imple_e02_W.pdf
Go at the MIDI Implementation Chart... MIDI CLock is not transmitted nor received... a big mistake if you open settings like 'Quarter Note' in a Delay. Tempo can be set via Tone Studio but it's not the same thing as GP10 will not be 'synced' as it should in real time.
:'(

VG99 recognizes MIDI Clock. That's why it works.
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

Brak(E)man

I thought you might be able to access tap tempo via assign settings etc.
And send cc# with a quarter notes gap from the daw
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

pasha811

#5
Quote from: Brak(E)man on February 26, 2017, 07:07:43 AM
I thought you might be able to access tap tempo via assign settings etc.
And send cc# with a quarter notes gap from the daw

That might be a good strategy, thank you. I'll give it a try tomorrow. Not a real sync but something in between.
In any case someone at Roland /Boss has to be very shortsighted lately...
>:(

In any case, time to pack. Gotta go to a concert, my wife performs a piano duo with her sister..  ;D So I'll have time to relax..
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

Brak(E)man

swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

pasha811

Quote from: Brak(E)man on March 03, 2017, 04:00:03 AM
Did you try it ?

Not yet but the weekend is near! I've been sucked into mu sustain issue...
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

pasha811

Quote from: pasha811 on March 03, 2017, 04:25:16 AM
Not yet but the weekend is near! I've been sucked into mu sustain issue...

I have done a preliminary test. So far my findings are that Tap Tempo is not available as an assignable parameter.
Tap Tempo is exposed only as CTL1 to CTL4 system function which means that you have to use your feet to tap the tempo.
Unfortunately this renders GP10 not capable of being used in a tempo setup.
I am shocked of this big shortcoming. Hopefully I will get to other ideas but it seems very unlikely at this point.
:o


Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

Brak(E)man

#9
QuoteI have done a preliminary test. So far my findings are that Tap Tempo is not available as an assignable parameter.

What about this ?
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

pasha811

#10
Quote from: Brak(E)man on March 03, 2017, 02:57:09 PM
What about this ?


I missed that. I'll try it. Does this work for you? It seems that given upper and lower boundaries the received CC which goes from 0 to 127
should control tempo. Some math needed...

EDIT : Ableton Live here. A clip sends 127 on CC#20 which is the one expected by GP10. The MIDI route from Ableton goes to channel 1 or channel 5, Delay is a Quarter Note but nothing happens. As I change Ableton tempo delay tempo remains untouched. Am I missing something?
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

Brak(E)man

Did you try both toggle and momentary ?
Did you try sending 1 instead of 127
Doesn't the patch change tempo setting at all ?
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

pasha811

Quote from: Brak(E)man on March 04, 2017, 01:39:34 AM
Did you try both toggle and momentary ?
Did you try sending 1 instead of 127
Doesn't the patch change tempo setting at all ?

Both toggle and momentary
sent all kind of values
no changes on GP10 alone
no changes on GP10 when connected to BTS.

I setup Ableton Live as always to send CC and tempo to devices.. but nothing.
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

Brak(E)man

Try it with a controller and see what happens
so it's not a midi problem
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

pasha811

Quote from: Brak(E)man on March 04, 2017, 02:46:19 AM
Try it with a controller and see what happens
so it's not a midi problem

I can control Delay Time on VG99 using CC#20 as in my previous Ableton Project using Assign.
VG99 has MIDI Clock implementation so I avoided that.
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

Brak(E)man

You should try a controller anyway
too see what happens
the GP and VG 99 prob behaves quite different
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

pasha811

#16
Well,

It works now. Remote needs to be enabled on Ableton Live MIDI Panel. BTS can be on or off it does not matter.
The test with VG99 was illuminating thanks for suggesting!

Tips :

1. There's no relation between Live Tempo and GP10 Tempo 
2. GP10 Tempo takes the value from the CC value proportionally to the CC range (0 to 127) and Tempo settings of the assign
3. You have to do the math:

Patch Tempo range = 120 to 247; CC Range = 0 to 127  so when CC send 1 tempo stays at 120. When CC sends 127 tempo stays at 247
Every thing in between needs to be calculated. If you want Patch Tempo 200 then you have to add 80 to the CC value (0 + 80=80)
If you want Patch Tempo 140 then you have to add 20 to the CC value (0 + 20=20).
If you do patch tempo 40 to 250 and CC 0 to 127 then you will have troubles because relationship between Patch Tempo range and CC Range it's not linear. So adjust the ranges so that they are linear.

Thanks! At least we have found a way.  ;D ;D ;D

PS : GP10 on Channel 1
Ableton Live Output GP10 Track, Sync, Remote ON







Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

Brak(E)man

It's to say the least stupid of boss to leave out midi clock or recognition of tap tempo over midi.

What are they thinking ?
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

pasha811

#18
Quote from: Brak(E)man on March 04, 2017, 03:47:21 AM
It's to say the least stupid of boss to leave out midi clock or recognition of tap tempo over midi.

What are they thinking ?

I will be censored by Elantric if I express my thought freely...  >:(

;)
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

Brak(E)man

But seriously come on!
All the functions except maybe midi clock
are already in there.
I can understand some dumbing down due to saving cost
but not using the functions already there :-?
the same goes for not using general midi even if only USB

What are the research and PR departments doing ? Really
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

pasha811

Quote from: Brak(E)man on March 04, 2017, 04:28:45 AM
But seriously come on!
All the functions except maybe midi clock
are already in there.
I can understand some dumbing down due to saving cost
but not using the functions already there :-?
the same goes for not using general midi even if only USB

What are the research and PR departments doing ? Really

You're 100% right.
Not implementing MIDI clock was lame.
Leaving out standard MIDI connectors it's also lame ...
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/