The GP-10 does have an Effect Loop. Kind-of. Here's how.

Started by carlb, July 02, 2016, 10:06:40 PM

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carlb

OK, I needed a GP-10 effect loop to bring in an EHX Key9 stomp box, give it some post-EQ, and control it as a patch via the GP-10.

Well with a number of limitations, you can setup the GP-10 to have an effects loop.

The limitations:

1) You can't be running your GP-10 in stereo.
2) You can't run the effects loop with your guitar's "real" pickups, only the GP-10's modeled instruments.
3) The effects loop must come right after the modeled instrument. (* No longer a limitation, check out posts below)
4) You must limit your other patches to not use "real" pickups when this make-shift effects loop is hooked up, or be darned sure you don't switch to patches that do.
5) The GP-10 "FX" block is pre-empted from being used for any of its "interesting" effects.  (* No longer a limitation, check out posts below)

So, here's the concept, and how to hook it up.

The GP-10 has two 1/4" outputs: OUTPUT L, OUTPUT R. If you're only using the left-out as mono to your amp, the right output can be used as an effect-send.

The GP-10 has one 1/4" input: "GUITAR INPUT." This can be used as an effects return.

Setup a patch with the following settings:

1) Modeled instrument output on, and hard-pan each string to the right. (For the guitar pickups and mono-out models use a pan effect, panned right, before your loop)
2) In the effect order-setting menu, move all effects onto the "N" ("normal pickup") leg. This should leave the internal mixer at just before the speaker outputs.
3) Move the "FX" block just before the mixer. Set it to "Pan," and manual pan, and set it for a hard-pan to the left. Turn this "FX" on.

So, the order is:

1) Modeled instrument output, panned hard-right, straight into the internal mixer. 1/4" "OUTPUT R" becomes "Effect-Send."
2) 1/4" GUITAR INPUT is "Effect Return," that signal goes through the effects with the last being a manual pan hard-left, then to the internal mixer and out to "OUTPUT L."

Connections are:

1) 13-Pin cable from your guitar into the GP-10 13-Pin input.
2) Your stomp box output goes to "GUITAR IN" 1/4" jack.
3) Your stomp box input goes to the GP-10's  "OUTPUT R".
4) The GP-10's "OUTPUT L" goes to your amp.

And that's it. The modeled guitar goes through your stomp box, back into the GP-10, through the rest of the effects.

Whichever GP-10 effects are true stereo-in and stereo-out can be moved to the Modeled instruments effects leg; effectively before the "Effects-Send." This includes the time-based effects: chorus, delay, and reverb. (* Or, see posts below to read about putting any effect before or after the loop.)
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

sixeight

You can also use the chorus or delay effect for panning. That will free up the FX block, which can do chorus and delay as well. If you use both, you can be more flexible in the FX order, also allowing effects to go before the effects loop.

Panning with the chorus effect: Set the chorus to stereo-2. Set the D-level to 100 and the E-level to zero. This will create a hard left pan.  I often put rate, depth and pre-delay to 0, then I can turn up the E-level to be more creative in panning.

Panning with the delay effect: Set the delay to dual L/R with both delay times set to 1ms, feedback to 0, D-level to 0. Turning D1 E-level up to 100 will have it panned hard left, turning up D2 E-level instead will have it panned hard right. This will add 1 ms delay, but I can't notice that.

I have implemented these techniques in the Stereo Crunch patch of the amp crunch pack:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=18166.msg129315#msg129315

carlb

Hey, thanks for that, sixeight. Great news.

With this info, there's no need to pan the modeled instrument output, but more importantly you can use any of the mono effects before or after the effects loop.

Example: use chorus setup "dry" and panned hard-left before the mixer on the "GUITAR IN" leg, and the delay seutp "dry" and panned hard-left before the mixer on the modeled instrument leg. Now any of the remaining effects (including those in the "FX" effect) can be used before the loop, or after the loop.

With this setup, limitations "3)" and "5)" in my originating post are no longer valid.

Cool!

Just tried it out, works great. Thanks!
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

sixeight

QuoteWith this setup, limitations "3)" and "5)" in my originating post are no longer valid.

Limitations just force us to be creative.

carlb

Quote from: sixeight on July 03, 2016, 12:09:33 PM
Limitations just force us to be creative.

There's more than enough limitations left with this approach to keep us creative, heh!

Quote from: sixeight on July 03, 2016, 08:55:10 AM
<...>
Panning with the chorus effect: Set the chorus to stereo-2. Set the D-level to 100 and the E-level to zero. This will create a hard left pan.  I often put rate, depth and pre-delay to 0, then I can turn up the E-level to be more creative in panning.
<...>

I think you mean the following instead, right?

"Panning with the chorus effect: Set the chorus to stereo-2. Set the E-level to 100 and the D-level to zero. This will create a hard left pan."
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

sixeight

Quote"Panning with the chorus effect: Set the chorus to stereo-2. Set the E-level to 100 and the D-level to zero. This will create a hard left pan."

AFAIK the stereo-2 chorus has the direct signal panned left and the chorussed signal panned right, but it could be the other way around. Just try it.

carlb

The way I use the "GP-10 Effects Loop" is to have the external effect (the EHX Key 9) as the last effect in the chain.

So it occurred to me that I can use the AUX IN as effects return. That would mean I don't need the GUITAR IN jack as effects return. So, I can again have patches that use the "real" guitar pickups, which I'd like to as the ES Les Paul Memphis pickups are quite cool sounding. The GP-10 does not have a model of them.

The big caveat is if the external effect has a lot of ambient noise (i.e., "SHHHHHHH" or "BZZZZZZ"), then it would always be there in your output regardless if the external effect was patched-in or not.

The final internal effect for all patches must be stereo. For all of your "internal effects only" patches, pan the final internal effect to the left only. For patches looping in the external effect, pan the final internal effect to the right only.

I might give this a try tomorrow.

P.S. - Just remembered that I run EQ with a low-end shelf after the Key 9 to limit the low end boominess. I may not be able to make this work. I'll give it a shot, though.
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

sixeight

QuoteSo it occurred to me that I can use the AUX IN as effects return. That would mean I don't need the GUITAR IN jack as effects return. So, I can again have patches that use the "real" guitar pickups, which I'd like to as the ES Les Paul Memphis pickups are quite cool sounding. The GP-10 does not have a model of them.

I am afraid this will not work. The signal you input on the aux return is output on the regular L/R outputs. If you connect an effect between L or R output and the aux input, you will have a feedback loop.

admin

Quote from: sixeight on June 03, 2018, 04:05:24 AM
I am afraid this will not work. The signal you input on the aux return is output on the regular L/R outputs. If you connect an effect between L or R output and the aux input, you will have a feedback loop.

I do this - connect GP-10 "GUITAR OUT" jack > External effect > GP-10 Aux Input.

External effect is in parallel   - but "External Effect" could be a whole pedal board with a volume pedal, or MFX ( Helix/AX8/Headrush. 

Use the GP-10 Vol pedal, and "External Effect Vol pedal to switch / blend GP-10 vs External MFX tone 


On GR-55 can do similar by feeding GR-55 output to a small Mixer or dBX GO-RACK DI box's AUX Input 

GR-55 "GUITAR OUT" jack > External effect / MFX  > dBX GO-RACK Aux Input.

dBX GO-RACK


https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=18791.msg137772#msg137772




BladesToyShop

"
External effect is in parallel   - but "External Effect" could be a whole pedal board with a volume pedal, or MFX ( Helix/AX8/Headrush."

In other words, I could use this to put something like a VL3X in parallel with my GP-10S if I wanted to, right?

Elantric

Quote from: BladesToyShop on June 13, 2018, 10:18:38 AM
"
External effect is in parallel   - but "External Effect" could be a whole pedal board with a volume pedal, or MFX ( Helix/AX8/Headrush."

In other words, I could use this to put something like a VL3X in parallel with my GP-10S if I wanted to, right?

why not try

mrz80

Quote from: carlb on June 02, 2018, 10:18:41 PM
So it occurred to me that I can use the AUX IN as effects return. That would mean I don't need the GUITAR IN jack as effects return. So, I can again have patches that use the "real" guitar pickups, which I'd like to as the ES Les Paul Memphis pickups are quite cool sounding. The GP-10 does not have a model of them.

This is exactly how my setup works.  I take the Guitar Out from my main GK-3 equipped guitar, run it through an a/b switch that lets me select my non-GK backup guitar if I bust a string) and feed it into my GT-8. The nice thing here is that the Guitar Out doesn't "switch off" the internal processing of the normal guitar signal, so I can run the GP and the GT in parallel.
Jesus freak, guitarist, luthier, bicyclist, ham (WA4UF)...
Turning every scrap of wood in the garage into Les Pauls, Telecasters, and 12 strings