GP10- The sound of me trying to sync everything!

Started by Frankster, September 22, 2014, 06:34:42 PM

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Frankster

I've always been obsessed with syncing effects and LFO's to MIDI clock, unfortunately the GP-10 doesn't understand MIDI clock so getting fast modulation effects to go in time is a bit hit and miss. This is a 2am attempt, I hit on the idea of sending a patch change from Cubase one bar before the recording started but even so the timing of the "pulsing" LFO isn't right.

Two patches used, a (nearly) tempo-synced OSC synth double tracked and a lead part using the Reso Wah.

The whole track is more of an experiment than any kind of serious attempt at composing but hey, it makes a couple of nice noises.

https://soundcloud.com/gilgafrank/sync-seq-95

shawnb

Hmmm...  Can you use an assign to map a cc to tap tempo?

It appears that you can send a sysex to update tempo on the gp-10, that might help.
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

Elantric

QuoteI've always been obsessed with syncing effects and LFO's to MIDI clock, unfortunately the GP-10 doesn't understand MIDI clock so getting fast modulation effects to go in time is a bit hit and miss. T

If you enjoy syncrosonic LFO effects, review the SpiceTone 6appeal 13pin hex processor which offers LFOs that respond to MIDI Clock:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=12104.0

Frankster

The 6Appeal is an interesting device but I'm not sure it's what I want. I'm more into spacey floaty weird sounds than conventional distortions, I like to use the GP-10 to make new soundscapes rather than impersonating a real guitar sound.

And I completely forgot I could assign continuous controllers, thanks for reminding me! I'll have another stab at this sometime and hopefully get closer to the rhythmic "choppy" sounds I'm after.

Frankster

A check of the MIDI implementation sheet confirms that the GP-10 completely ignores clock messages. I'd love to see that addressed in a firmware update.

drbill

Quote from: Frankster on September 23, 2014, 10:36:52 AM
A check of the MIDI implementation sheet confirms that the GP-10 completely ignores clock messages. I'd love to see that addressed in a firmware update.

This is really pathetic. First, you more or less require the user to have a computer. Then you make it impossible to synch with the device.
GP-10, KPA
BM i2.13p, '76 Les Paul Deluxe w/GK-3, MiM RRS, Ibanez RG420GK, Charvel strat copy w/GK-2a, FTP

Frankster

#6
It is a glaring omission, especially when the GT-100 can sync to MIDI clock. As it stands, really good rhythmic effects like the GP-10's multi-stage phasers and flangers cannot be run in sync with a DAW and the process becomes a hit and miss process of trying to start the recording as the phaser "pulses".

Having said that, I've got the continuous controllers working well with the effects and synth filters now so I can experiment all night.

Again.

Frankster

Using CC's to change the wah position and filter cutoff, I think I've got this sorted now. We're getting into that area where it could be a guitar, could be a synth but no one's quite sure. Apologies for the terrible mixes and sloppy playing, really I'm just learning how to do this as I go along.

https://soundcloud.com/gilgafrank/sync-seq-95-cc

supernicd

Very cool - at certain moments in that track you're getting into territory that sounds like a synthesizer oscillator slave/hard-sync kind of effect - but with the waveforms being guitar signals.  Dig. :)  Very creative use of the tool!

So do you have the filter cutoff and wah position modulated with the same modulator or different/out of phase waveforms to get that sound?
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

Frankster

As you guessed, the filter cutoff and wah position changed with two MIDI CC's. There's a tempo-sync delay in there too, set to a quarter note and a dotted eighth. Next one to investigate is the phaser, see if the steps can be played in sync.

Frankster

These were the wah and filter controllers, this lets me do effects like pulsing the wah between hard open and hard closed, something you can't achieve with a pedal.

Wah ...



Filter ...


supernicd

That is pretty cool!  Thanks for the knowledge share and the sound sample.  Keep us posted if you get any interesting results with the phaser sync!  This stuff is fascinating to me.
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

shawnb

Excellent stuff!

What are you using to generate those CCs? 

Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

Frankster

I used a controller lane in Cubase with the snap set to 16th or 8th notes and left it sending the continuous controller messages while I played a guitar part. Really the clever way to do it would have been to use the re-amping facility to experiment with bringing out specific harmonics once the track was recorded.

Unfortunately this won't work in a live situation as you need a sequencer or DAW running while you play. Makes me think the world needs a MIDI box that listens for MIDI clock and sends out a configurable repeating pattern of controller messages like I have Cubase doing here.

The closest equivalent is the something like Boss SL-20 which I use with MIDI clock - surprising that an effect that is cheaper than the GP-10 and probably will sell if far fewer numbers can tie to MIDI clock where the GP-10 can't. And there's the Adrenalinn 3 which really does look like my next purchase.


shawnb

#14
Quote from: Frankster on September 24, 2014, 06:29:58 PMMakes me think the world needs a MIDI box that listens for MIDI clock and sends out a configurable repeating pattern of controller messages like I have Cubase doing here.

I am also deeply interested in the interplay of complex filters & guitarwork.   I wrote this little tool in Puredata (& also an identical module in Usine Hollyhock).  It can operate as master or slave:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=10331.msg75335#msg75335

There are other boxes out there: 
http://www.roland.com/products/en/SBX-1/
http://www.innerclocksystems.com/New%20ICS%20Products.html

I haven't invested time in these, since I use a laptop for my processing now.

If you do make the leap & bring a laptop with your gear, first, you will find things are much lighter...   Then you will want something to run & connect everything together.  I've been highly impressed with Hollyhock, which I am basically using as my VST host on my laptop:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=6296.msg86810#msg86810
http://www.sensomusic.com/usine/

With Hollyhock, you have perfect flexibility & can emulate the tools you described above...   Without using Cubase as your live rig.  You will need to program it a bit!

My Hollyhock version of the CC generator is now available as an add-on within Hollyhock:
http://www.sensomusic.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=4522
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

Frankster

That is indeed an interesting project. My personal preference would be to use an Arduino board with some knobs and sliders, I've seen a number of Arduino-based arpeggiators that could easily be repurposed to send out controller info. I've seen Adrian Belew performing some interesting solo pieces with an AxeFX hooked up to a laptop but I like the instant control of turning a knob or hitting a switch. I could always use my Novation Remote for that but I need a project to get lost in and a knobs and sliders clock to LFO Arduino box holds a lot of appeal for me right now.


mbenigni


supernicd

#17
Watching that Adrian Belew video made me want a guitar with a working whammy bar again. :)

One thing I was wondering - how much of this could be accomplished without the external controllers?  Seems like you could use an assign and the internal wave pedal as tempo synced modulators for these parameters.  I guess then you'd be limited to just the foundational wave shapes that are included in the WAVE SRC, and the magic here is coming from the uniqueness of the wave shape?  It's also not 100% clear to me if different internal wave pedals used in different assigns can have different shapes/frequencies or if they share a common LFO.  And then there's no phase control on the internal wave pedal either (? just going from memory at the moment), which might be another component to the magic - to have these out of phase.  But maybe if multiple wave pedals can have different shapes/frequencies, they would naturally not be in phase...
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

Frankster

You can do it with the internal LFO, that was what I tried in the first sound I posted. The idea of sending controller messages from the DAW is to keep it perfectly in sync, otherwise it's a matter of trying to start recording at exactly the right time in the LFO cycle. Hence the annoyance at the GP-10's inability to read MIDI clock. I suspect the GR-55 would do this very easily. You pays your money and you takes your choice!

Frankster

More filter cutoffs and flanger sweeps generated from Cubase continuous controllers. This is much more fun that trying to sound like Jimi Hendrix. And I've decided the world needs a hardware LFO sequencer so I've got an Arduino board being delivered today, we'll see if that can be made to talk to the GP-10.

https://soundcloud.com/gilgafrank/de-profundis