Robo-performances and live audience reactions

Started by Rhcole, April 08, 2014, 02:28:34 PM

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Rhcole

In another section of this site I discussed the EHX Looper that I just bought. The next step for me is more of an aesthetic one- when is too much automation and technology a bad thing?
Years ago I was in a Borders where they allowed performers in the back room. They had a guy playing flamenco guitar who was technically awesome. But, he had backing tracks including drums, strings, etc. etc. to the point where it was like listening to a CD for me. I could see his fingers moving and hear his playing, but it felt flat and lifeless. I listened for a moment and left. The poor guy clearly felt bad, because he kept turning up louder and louder while the room remained virtually empty. I must not have been the only one who couldn't connect with him or his playing.

A pro touring musician who played clubs constantly told me that many owners wouldn't allow samplers or drum tracks and so forth because they thought it degraded performers rather than enhanced them. Yet, I personally believe that automated devices used sparingly and with great taste can make a performance much more powerful. Last year at Ambicon, an ambient music convention sponsored by Hearts of Space, most of the performers were sequenced and pre-recorded beyond many musicians' wildest fantasies. Yet, the shows were very exciting and stirring.

What have you experienced?


admin

#1
Read "They are listening with their eyes"
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4900.0







germanicus

I think using backing tracks is fine. Honestly as long as the venue knows you use them, and you arent faking it as in miming along to them, I dont see an issue.
A very large number of popular acts used canned tracks. Ever see Rush? They can a ton of stuff. My own band in the past used canned tracks when we went out as a trio, employing some backing rhythm guitar tracks and some sparse keyboard pads. I once played a gig just with my bass player and canned drums. We got a great response. If someone had an issue with it, so be it. Life is too short.

It can be challenging to pull off depending on the music itself and whether you need to sync several live players.

Some drummers also have trouble playing live with click tracks and not changing their playstyle, so that can be a challenge.

Now if the context is a solo act, and you have an entire orchestra and band canned as backing tracks, you need to be more aware of your stage presence. If you are sitting still playing barre chords while staring at your feet/loop pedal, you will probably lose people.

Can the music be played in a different arrangement without canned tracks? 
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gumtown

It's OK by me as long as the backing tracks don't become the focus of the show, less is more..

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HoosierMan

Love the picture!  Where did you get it?

Due to playing solo I often use tracks and I have found getting them just right takes some experimenting so they are supporting but not distracting.  Getting all tracks normalized so the volume from one to the next is even is as big of a hassle as getting patch volumes normalized...oh well.... The down side is being locked in to the tempo and structure of the track.  But as much as I love my GR-55 people seem to love when I grab my ukulele an go au natural.

gumtown

Quote from: chartzog on April 08, 2014, 05:34:53 PM
Love the picture!  Where did you get it?
That is me on the left,
since we became self aware and plugged into the universal conciousness that you humans know as the internet,
we decided to start a rock band.  >:(

na..
it was a google search on robot musicians  ;D
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Mrchevy

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Rhcole

Now what you need is an audience of robots to applaud or clap along... synched by MIDI.

gumtown

#8
Very cool, yet somewhat slightly disturbing.


Just needs "Microsoft Sam" text-to-speech for some vocals.
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Rhcole

They offer ticket discounts to anybody named Sarah Connor.

datsunrobbie

I think it depends a lot on the performer. One of my faves locally (CT, USA) is Bob Gianotti, formerly of Jasper Wrath, who has been playing solo gigs around here for over a decade. He used to play a little bar named Billy's Cafe in West Haven, CT about once a month, and would let me sit in on a few songs and we'd discuss our toys between sets. He had an ancient sequencer that was actually pre-midi, wish I could remember the make and model, and used it to run a keyboard with sequenced backup tracks that he created. He plays guitar and flute, and highlights of his show included Locomotive Breath and Bouree by Jethro Tull, and he'd switch between flute and guitar on these tracks. The best part of his shows was that it was never a "robo-performance" - you could tell this guy is having a ball playing music that he loves, even on nights where only half a dozen people listening. His home-grown sequences allowed plenty of spots for extended solos, and he had several basic drum tracks that he could bring in to cover requests on the fly.

IMHO, it comes down to the difference between a musician and an entertainer. A good musician will play along with the backup tracks and sound good. An entertainer will do that AND engage the audience.

Machh_2


pedwards2932

I have a RC 300 that I am just getting enough time to really see what it can do so I have been listening to a lot of loop performances.  What I notice is if you take too long to build your tracks it makes to looping obvious and sounds mechanical.  I think it has been said we listen with our eyes and if someone is fiddling around too much getting a song going it detracts from the performance. I am not real interested in backing tracks because I think doing the looping live gives you a chance to show you can do everything live.

mojo thorne

Quote from: pedwards2932 on April 09, 2014, 08:09:38 AM
I have a RC 300 that I am just getting enough time to really see what it can do so I have been listening to a lot of loop performances.  What I notice is if you take too long to build your tracks it makes to looping obvious and sounds mechanical.  I think it has been said we listen with our eyes and if someone is fiddling around too much getting a song going it detracts from the performance. I am not real interested in backing tracks because I think doing the looping live gives you a chance to show you can do everything live.

+1 for this.  The trick is to practice your looping technique to death so that you know precisely when you are going to record a loop and when you are going to punch out, and be set up to start a new phrase as soon as you punch out of the loop.  The introduction of new material will keep the audience focused.  The planning required for pre-recorded backing tracks is even more critical, and you need to have it organized and locked down before taking it out to a gig.

I've also not personally used backing tracks, but in my current duo, I do a fair amount of live looping.  The most well received loops are usually when I just record a passage or two to go under a solo.  For instance, if a song structure is verse / chorus / verse / chorus / verse (with solo) / chorus (with solo) / outro, then I will usually record the second verse and chorus as two different live loops, and us them in the third verse and chorus to be able to drive the song to climax with a lead part to accompany the vocals.

I find that other musicians are impressed when we do the numbers that involve a lot of carefully timed delay loops and dexterity, but your average barfly gets much more excited when they can get caught up in a SONG and don't even realize that there are fancy gadgets at work.  Those are the people that you have to please if you want to be asked back by the venue.

thebrushwithin

For the past 15yrs., I have been playing gigs with the same national bar/restaurant chain, in a variety of cities, using my home recorded backing tracks, and the audiences have always been very positive. It has been a burnout for me personally, because of fixed arrangements, as I miss also, the interplay with other musicians. Since I am on the road, at least 2 weeks per month, I decided to start up a guitar duo with an old friend, for local gigs, and to preserve my sanity! He has always played with bands, and so we both had to adjust to a more "naked" sound, and it just isn't easy when you're so used to a big sound. Bands, in my neck of the woods, are making 70's money, which is pitiful. Most friends are in 2 - 3 bands, just to make a little money. It would probably help, if I was more of an "entertainer", but I simply am not, and the results have stayed positive. Playing multiple instrument sounds with a guitar synth keeps those that pay attention, interested, and also, vocals work best. I find that mostly musicians appreciate instrumentals, not the general public. I think looping works when done sparingly.

Now_And_Then

#15
Quote from: Rhcole on April 08, 2014, 02:28:34 PM
... when is too much automation and technology a bad thing?

Years ago I was in a Borders where they allowed performers in the back room. They had a guy playing flamenco guitar who was technically awesome. But, he had backing tracks including drums, strings, etc. etc. to the point where it was like listening to a CD for me. I could see his fingers moving and hear his playing, but it felt flat and lifeless. I listened for a moment and left. The poor guy clearly felt bad, because he kept turning up louder and louder while the room remained virtually empty. I must not have been the only one who couldn't connect with him or his playing.

A pro touring musician who played clubs constantly told me that many owners wouldn't allow samplers or drum tracks and so forth because they thought it degraded performers rather than enhanced them. Yet, I personally believe that automated devices used sparingly and with great taste can make a performance much more powerful. Last year at Ambicon, an ambient music convention sponsored by Hearts of Space, most of the performers were sequenced and pre-recorded beyond many musicians' wildest fantasies. Yet, the shows were very exciting and stirring.

What have you experienced?

Tough times for local bands ??
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=1121.msg115728#msg115728