Help with Guitar Build

Started by ( . )( . ), June 30, 2016, 11:53:44 AM

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( . )( . )

I'm considering having a custom, guitar built. When the luthier puts in a synth system on a Floyd Rose , he typically uses an original floyd and graphtech ghost saddles. He didn't know about the LB63 until I showed him, but said he'd recommend the his usual method, because it doesn't look like it's truly drop in, and it looks like it might be an inferior build quality to the floyd. Thoughts?

I also asked him about the roland internal kit, and he had never done one, but said it would likely be be more expensive for him - mostly because of the learning curve, I guess. He does amazing work though, so I'm not worried.

Which method do you think is best?

A. Floyd Rose with ghost saddles
B. LB63
C. GK internal kit
D. Floyd and external GK wart (save $800-900)

I really only use the GP-10 for any synth stuff. How do the ghosts do with roland gear compared to the GK? Is there a way I could use a roland preamp with the graphtech saddles, and get a closer approximation to a GK? I do all my acoustic stuff through the GK, but I guess the peizo output would be cool - not sure I'd use it much though.

Either way, this will be a +$4K build, so I want to make sure to get what I want the first time. I know I could probably find all this in the forum, but I'd like some insight to this specific situation.

Help please...

Elantric

#1
Having been there done that

I see Big hurdles with adjacent string mechanical crosstalk when using piezo saddles on a  Floyd

(which means DSP Alt tuning and Guitar to MIDi tracking will suffer )

Even when using the official Graphtech Ghost LB63 Floyd system

Read about the differences between GK-3 and Piezo here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5043.0

( . )( . )

#2
Is there another tremolo out there that will work better, but gives the the control of a floyd?

Will the GK be better with a floyd than a piezo? I put it on my old ibanez for awhile, and it seemed to do pretty well, but, I didn't keep it on long enough to extensively test it.

Elantric

the hurdle / battle with a floyd with piezo hex PU is the drop out that occurs when the trem arm is depressed down to the extreme positions

Myself these days I play Reverend guitars with Bisgby B5 tremolos which employ the Reverend custom tension Bisgby tremolo spring - it provides a wider range and allow more jeff beck type actions.

the benefit is uniform string height within the speaking length of the string - right where you install a GK-3 or Shadow mag hex PU ( from Antares) 

And I can palm Mute !

read my blog below

jon_bondy

The Roland internal kit is pretty easy to use, and has the benefit that as the strings move across the piezo saddles, there will be no noise.  I would encourage your luthier to get the info on the internal kit before dismissing it as difficult.  I've done both.

Jon

( . )( . )

Quote from: jon_bondy on June 30, 2016, 12:50:04 PM
The Roland internal kit is pretty easy to use, and has the benefit that as the strings move across the piezo saddles, there will be no noise.  I would encourage your luthier to get the info on the internal kit before dismissing it as difficult.  I've done both.

Jon

Thanks Jon,

Do you have much experience with Floyd Roses and GKs?

I was also thinking of a fender style - like a bladerunner - would that give me less problems?

whippinpost91850

I agree with the internal kit as well.

( . )( . )

#7
Also, I only use my s1/s2 switches for pickup selection. I would ideally like to use a 5 way switch when I'm Straty and a 3 way switch when I'm Pauly, replacing the kit buttons for s1/s2. I don't see how I could do this, since I use sw1 for switching pickups in one direction, while sw2 is used for the other direction. Is this possible?

Kevin M

Quote from: Chameleon on June 30, 2016, 01:50:02 PM
Also, I only use my s1/s2 switches for pickup selection. I would ideally like to use a 5 way switch when I'm Straty and a 3 way switch when I'm Pauly, replacing the kit buttons for s1/s2. I don't see how I could do this, since I use sw1 for switching pickups in one direction, while sw2 is used for the other direction. Is this possible?

As far as I know...no; I could be wrong, of course! The Godin style S1/S2 switch might be more to your liking.

Elantric

#9
I agree - use the Godin style single spring loaded toggle switch for S1/S2 switch on your Roland internal GK-KIT-GT3 kit

details here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=654.0

( . )( . )

Quote from: Kevin M on June 30, 2016, 01:56:08 PM
As far as I know...no; I could be wrong, of course! The Godin style S1/S2 switch might be more to your liking.

Thanks,
Based on the replies so far, I think the GK internal is my best option. I wish they made a system with a GK option.

whippinpost91850


Based on the replies so far, I think the GK internal is my best option. I wish they made a system with a GK option.
[/quote]

?????

( . )( . )

 What, does GOdin make an option that uses a GK3 pick up?

Elantric

#13
QuoteWhat, does GOdin make an option that uses a GK3 pick up?
no

But I suggest review the complete list of every GK Ready 13 pin guitar here
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=19.0


vanceg

I would really recommend against any tremolo with Piezo pickups - The mechanical noise and crosstalk will get in the way of the pitch to MIDI conversion and in any COSM modeling you are doing.  I'd really recommend a GK-3. 
The problem with the GK-3 is that Floyd (and other knife edge pivot tremolos) raise the strings when you are diveboming.  Frankly, I don't find that TOO much of a problem in my playing...but it is a thing I find I have to work around.... a quirk of my guitar that have this setup. 

You might try a roller based tremolo like a Kahler, but I know a lot of people don't like those...  I know I like the feel, but it seems that the Floyd stays in tune better.   THIS would be an amazing option...but, alas, I don't think they are shipping right now...and they won't be cheap anyway.  These are, by far, the smoothest, most impressive tremolos I've ever used....and they don't change the height of the strings as you move them.
http://www.lineartremolo.com/

You might also want to consider the Virtual Jeff - Now I don't know if this is your kind of thing...but it does eliminate all the issues of tremolo noise and strings raising up/down when you move the trem....
http://www.fomofx.com/

But from all my experience with 13 pin systems - I would stick with a GK-3 or another magnetic pickup like the CycFi NU Modular over a Piezo system.

( . )( . )

Quote from: Elantric on June 30, 2016, 02:34:54 PM
But I suggest review the complete list of every GK Ready 13 pin guitar here
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=19.0


Thanks - I will. Is there a list of just GK pickup equipped guitars?

shawnb

My go-to guitar is a Peavey Wolfgang with a Floyd Rose.  I have a GK-3 on it.  I'm very happy with it.   

I mistrust piezos for COSM / modeling - too brittle for my taste.   GKs sound great with guitar tones.  Piezos sound good with COSM synth tones.

My advice is very simple...    First, pick your favorite guitar to play.   Then put a GK on it.

Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

HecticArt

I love my Kahler bar. I like it better than the Floyd on my ESP. The fine tuners work better, it's got a lower profile, it doesn't tend to move as much with double stop bends, and it's easier to set up. With the rollers, the string height will always be perfect for your GK pickup.

I have a Wilkinson trem on my Reverend Reeves Gabrels Signature that I'm installing a GK internal pup on. The string height on the Wilkinson doesn't seem to move up and down quite as much as it does on my Floyd, but I haven't measured the difference. I don't use my trems a lot these days, so it's a compromise I'm comfortable with.

I do a lot of palm muting, so I opted to go with the GK over the peizos. Godin's are fully beautiful, and are supposed to be great players, but the peizos aren't for me.

I don't think your luthier will have any problems with the internal kit. It's minimal extra routing for a new build, and will look soooo much better. I can't wait to get the GK-3 off of my Reeves.

If you're a big Floyd fan, you need to weigh the options for how you play. If you're using your magnetic pups most of the time that you're using the trem, it shouldn't be a problem. For the GK pup, if it's light warbles, it shouldn't be much of an issue. If you dive a lot while using the GK pup, you're more likely to have problems.

When will the build begin?
You know that you have to share pictures when it's done, don't you?

( . )( . )

Quote from: HecticArt on July 01, 2016, 01:02:34 PM
I love my Kahler bar. I like it better than the Floyd on my ESP. The fine tuners work better, it's got a lower profile, it doesn't tend to move as much with double stop bends, and it's easier to set up. With the rollers, the string height will always be perfect for your GK pickup.

Which Kahler are you using? Is there a roller trem that allows me to go up as well as down?

Elantric

#19
Most roller kahlers go up and down


The best advice for Kahlers owners is obtain replacement Ceramic Rollers  from Whammy World to minimize rattles and improve tone (compared to stock Brass Rollers)

http://www.wammiworld.com/kahlerparts.php

whippinpost91850

#20
The Kahlers with the rollers. Will allow you to raise or lower the pitch.  I use one on my custom w/gr install and it works very well

HecticArt

Quote from: Chameleon on July 02, 2016, 12:24:48 PM
Which Kahler are you using? Is there a roller trem that allows me to go up as well as down?
It raises and lowers the pitch nicely. I was talking about the string height staying the same height off of the pickups when you raise or lower.
The tuning stability is excellent.
I'd have to take a look to see what model it is, but it was stock on a USA Guild I bought in 1986 or so.