Fishman TriplePlay FC-1 Floor Controller (User Experience)

Started by vablows, January 25, 2015, 10:19:57 AM

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Spider


FishmanSQA

Hello everyone-

Please note that Tripleplay Release v1.3.5195 is compatible with Windows 7. As stated before, there are a couple of Win 7 related bugs that we are currently working on. We apologize for any confusion or frustration!

The download is available here:

http://www.fishman.com/support/tripleplay/tripleplaysoftwareupdates.php

Best,
Sara

eelectric

Just got my FC1 and I have it working like a charm, triggering synths in my ipad wirelessly using the Quicco Sound Wireless MIDI Interface mi.1 [Rev.3]. I need to do a little tweaking  but I was wondering if the FC1 responds to Program changes on the midi in? It would be handy to use an app like onsong to set the patch automatically when using the playlist function. To get the audio out I use a bluetooth receiver going into my DBX GoRack so the ipad is completely wireless to my pedalboard. I thought I might get some interference issues but so far it's working great in my studio. The test now will be playing live. Pretty fun setup with my homemade guitar that I affectionately call the "Sonic Screwdriver".

Elantric

Thanks for the report.

FWIW - I was doing similar (before the FC-1 was released) using iPad Air+Apple USB Camera Adapter Cable connected to a Powered Hub.

Into the USB Hub I connect:

* FTP Wireless USB Receiver dongle ( to get MIDI Note On/Off date into the iPad) 
* KMI SoftStep II MIDI Foot Controller ( to control patch changes on IOS MIDI Apps) 
* Line-6 SonicPort VX  ( to get 24bit Balanced Audio out of the iPad to Drive PA)

Journey described in detail here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9581.0

vablows

Unfortunately the FC-1 does not respond to MIDI in yet.
I really need it also, and hope this is implemented very soon .

whippinpost91850

Quote from: vablows on June 10, 2016, 07:23:53 AM
Unfortunately the FC-1 does not respond to MIDI in yet.
I really need it also, and hope this is implemented very soon .

That's what I'm waiting for as well

BBach


Elantric

 We expect this to eventually work  -but requires a future FC-1 firmware upgrade

vablows

I actually just bought an iConnect 4+, as I just got the remote for the Kemper and will control my synth with the MIDI out from there.
I need MIDI mapping for the PC changes and didn't realize it did that.
I will revisit the FC-1 if this doesn't pan out.
I really like the unit, but until it gains a lot more flexibility with a hardware synth, basic mode with the FTP alone is basically the same for me.

musicamex

I decided to jump into the water instead of watching from the shore.  I ordered a FC1.  I wont have it until mid august when my wife brings it back for me.  In the mean time I'll  continue to read all i can hoping enough how to info soaks in.  It would be helpful to have hookup instructions and suggestions from fishman for us mere mortals regarding specific common hardware synths.  Maybe allot of what i want to learn is on this v guitar site. It takes me awhile to sift through it and absorb it without actually having the FC1 in front of me.  It seems there are very current firmware updates and now that i am online again i hope to make this ftp/fc1 adventure allot smoother than it started out.


musicamex

I'm surprised no one has posted on this thread since my last post.   I finally got my FC1 albeit a few weeks late.  I read or at least skimmed this thread, start to finish and think i followed instructions,  even though a bit confusing to a guy who doesnt understand his toys like many who post here.  My windows 7 laptop, specially built for FTP recognizes the FC1 and the appropriate symbols appear on the FC1 .  I admit i am not even close to understanding midi like many posting here.  I appreciate seeing Fishman participate in helping us mere musicians understand how some of this works.  I know many FTPand FC1 purchasers are interested in getting those great sounds coming from their guitar out of a speaker and really don't want to understand how or why it all happens.  To enjoy your new Mercedes,  most  dont want to spend allot of time studying the engineering or even the mechanical side of the maintenance.   Put the key in and drive....well i guess they don't even have keys now , do they....

Ok...i am having trouble with the hardware synth operation with the FC1.  When i first got the fc1 i plugged a midi cable into the back if an old casio keyboard and it played a patch but was unable to switch patches.  I then followed all instructions here, downloading the beta software suggested in this thread.  It was the latest version on the Fishman site.
I get the FC1 icon on the  FTP  program page on the computer. .  I am confused as to how to load hardware patches to the list under that heading.  I have hooked up 5 different hardware modules and none make a sound.  I'm sure i am failing to configure something i don't understand.  My keyboard still plays and now switches patches, but the patch on the keyboard lcd doesn't match what is coming out of its speakers or doesnt change with the FC1 patch buttons.

I appreciate that this is a complex, evolving new technology.  And when it works it is hard to go back to 13 pin technology.  But, Fishman, PLEASE...GIVE  BETTER INSTRUCTIONS TO US GUYS WHO ARENT THAT TOP 20% OF YOUR CUSTOMERS WHO REALLY UNDERSTAND THE TECHNICAL PART OF YOUR PRODUCTS.  Your FC1 instructions included with the unit are at best a physical description of the Fc1.  Many of your customers want to start playing their hopefully Fishman enabled guitars with a minimum of research, trial and error.  If it wasn't for this fantastic website and its super stars i would have probably given up by now.  Thank you, Fishman,  for a promising new technology, and thank you V Guitar heros for bailing us non techies out so often.  Companies like Fishman benefit GREATLY from the expertise here.  Asking a few questions during R&D would certainly improve a product before it's debut.  "Oh that dongle would certainly benefit from a foot friendly location!"

Anyway,  excuse my rant and please help me get my hardware side of the FC1 working without the computer in the mix.

Gracias amigos.

musicamex

Thanks for the reply.  It isnt multitimbral.  Just a casio keyboard.  Im pretty sure the sound coming out is one that is from the keyboard (what else could it be if only the keyboard is hooked up to the fc1? ).  The keyboard lcd just stays on the the same patch, piano, and something else comes out of the speaker.

In reality, the keyboard was only a first test since it had built in speakers.  What i am having trouble understanding is the other synth modules i have tried without getting a peep out of.   Vg99...proteus 2000, axon ax100, emu carnival, emu orbit.  I thoroughly followed the instructions in the link you sent.  I have read and re read everything on the fishman site and installed the latest beta software that is for the FC1.  When I get back from town (market day) i will try again.  Somehow i am missing something in getting the fc1 to communicate with the midi moduled i mentioned.  I will dust off my gr33 later and try it too.  A video tutorial from fishman would really help taking someone, step by step, through physical hookup, and steps in programing for the various possibilities and combinations of hardware/software.  After all, there is no better advertising for a product than a musician successfully demonstrating it to their peers.  I would like to show my FTP and FC1 but so far it is just a new novelty toy for me.  Judging from the FTP topics going from a boil to a simmer lately i wonder how many potentially new customers are taking the plunge.....

Elantric

QuoteVg99...proteus 2000, axon ax100,

For any proposed MIDI Synth device you intend to drive with the FC-1 MIDI Output  - you must review its MIDI Implementation Sheet ( often in the back of the manual ) to verify it responds to MIDI Note On / off message.

The Following gear are not suitable for use with FC-1 as a synth module because they do NOT respond to MIDI Note On / off message.
 
Roland VG-8
Roland VG-8EX
Roland VG-88
Roland VG-99
Roland VB-99
Roland GR-55
Axon AX-100

And the FC-1 is NOT "plug & Play" - requires a lot of time to configure it for each patch you intend to use with the connected MIDI Tone Module and each one is different.
The FC-1 Patch name on LCD requires user to create each and every FC-1 patch location, to match your type of MIDI tone module - there is no "auto patch name sync retrieval" mechanism for FC-1. It requires a lot of planning and knowledge of MIDI and third party MIDI debug tools before its gig worthy .

By contrast using the FTP with an iPad+Apple USB Camera adapter is essentially plug and play and provides decent low latency performance for live use

kenact

Quote from: Elantric on August 28, 2016, 08:11:53 AM
The Following gear are not suitable for use with FC-1 as a synth module because they do NOT respond to MIDI Note On / off message.
 
Roland VG-8
Roland VG-8EX
Roland VG-88
Roland VG-99
Roland VB-99
Roland GR-55
Axon AX-100


On the other hand, my:

Roland GR-30
Roland GR-33
Roland GR-20

Will all work, along with my OLD Korg Poly 800. :)
Godin Session & Montreal FTP, LGXT, LGX SA, Redline, ACS, A12, A11, A10, A4
Danoblaster Baritone w/GK-3
Gretsch Nashville, Viking
Fender Strats
Fret King Supermatic
Larrivee DV03RE
Parker Midi Fly
Seagull, S&P 12
VOX Phantom XII
GR-55, 33, 30, 20, GI-20, RC-50, US-20, VG-99, VP-7
Sentient 6
Cyr 7

Elantric

I like to use GR-33 or Korg Microstation or Roland Juno-G

Still coming to grips with Waldorf Blofeld , which is the MIDI synth Fishman uses at NAMM to demo the FC-1
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=13447.msg98553#msg98553


musicamex

Thanks for the input.  Elantric, since you mention using this with the gr33, i pulled mine off of the shelf.  Do i have to set up each patch i intend to use on the computer first one by one?  With multiple hardware units, that might be somewhat confusing. 
I do not seem to have comunication between the computer/fc1 and the gr33.  I looked in the back of the gr33 manual and couldn't find what i understand to be correct settings for where the hardware synth window prompts me to select program change and hardware parameters.  When i have the midi cables connected between the fc1 and gr33 i can no longer select (change) a patch i would like to use on the gr 33 either.

i pretty much see that for local gigs i might be better sticking with 13 pin which has worked well enough so far.  I already would be losing the vg99 and axon sounds switching to the fc1.  Since my cantina gig life is winding down, investing even more in Apple gear probably isn't worth the expense.  Rock star pay doesnt happen here.  We are a tool to sell drinks and keep the crowd from going to a different cantina. 

So please help me by walking me through setting up the gr33 and hopefully i can add different sound module hardware for playing in the studio once i understand the basic process.  I'm sorry for being such a midi klutz.  Most of my gear so far WAS pretty much simple hookup illustrated in the manual (eg all roland and axon gear) and tweaking patches as necessary, also following cookbook instructions in the manual.

Do you know if  roland jv 1080, or the A6 sound canvas might work?  Also the EMU gear like carnival, orbit or proteus 2000?

Also would you consider the fc300 worthwhile in the fc1 mix?  It sure is handy and versatile for my 13 pin world.

Really, if i can get a gr33 patch to play wireless with the fc1 that will make me very happy indeed.  It would be an encouraging step in the right direction.

Thank you....

shawnb

musicamex -

The short answer is yes, the FC-1 should be able to control any & all of those hardware synths.  There are only two real "gotchas":
  -  Will your HW synth support mono and poly mode, or only poly?  If it says it is "multi-timbral", or that is supports multiple simultaneous channels/instruments, it will support mono mode.  (The GR-33, being a guitar synth, supports mono mode.)
  -  How do you program mono mode patches on a hardware synth?  You will have to read the synth's manual carefully, and create a multi patch that has 6 instruments with the same voice, each setup to respond to one of the channels, 1-6.  The HW synth will probably not have these guitar synth patches setup - their patches are likely setup for keyboards, single channel.  So you likely need to make your own.  (The GR-33 will do this if it is in mono mode with its "Basic" channel set to 1.  Being a guitar synth, it already knows you want the same instrument for each of the 6 strings.) 

I don't think anyone will have the exact same config as you, so you may not get the exact steps, but it will be along the lines of this:
  -  Confirm the synth receives PCs (Program Changes).
  -  Figure out which channel the synth expects PCs to be on.
  -  Figure out which channel your controller sends PCs on. 
  -  Line them up, so the controller and synth are speaking the same language. 
  -  Create 5 or so multi patches for PCs 1-5 on your HW synth. 
  -  Create 5 or so Hardware Synth patches for the FTP. 
  -  Load Controller.
  -  Using a 5-pin MIDI cable, connect your FC-1 MIDI Out to the HW synth MIDI In.
  -  Test...

For your FC-1 to your GR-33:
  -  Confirm the synth receives PCs (Program Changes).
In your GR-33 manual, page 119 shows the MIDI Implementation chart.  You'll see that for "Prog Change", it will in fact receive MIDI input. 
  -  Figure out which channel the synth expects PCs to be on.   
There is a footnote on pg 119 that says it will only do so on what it calls the "Basic" channel.  In your GR-33 manual, pages 86-87, it says the Basic channel is the lowest of your 6 channels in mono mode.  So if the GR-33 is setup for channels 1-6, it is expecting program changes on channel 1. 
  -  Figure out which channel your controller sends PCs on. 
I don't have an FC-1, but the FTP sends PCs on all the active strings, so when using the primary synth voice (Synth 1 in the UI), it will send PCs on channels 1-6.  
  -  Line them up, so the controller and synth are speaking the same language. 
Since the FTP uses 1-6, you will want the GR-33 setup to be in Mono mode with the Basic channel set to 1, and it will expect note data on channels 1-6. 
  -  Create 5 or so multi patches for PCs 1-5 on your HW synth. 
Good news, as noted above, is that the GR-33 already has multi patches setup, since it knows you're playing guitar synth on it.
  -  Create 5 or so Hardware Synth patches for the FTP. 
Edit 5 HW patches and place them in User Patch slots 1-5 using the FTP application.  Open each of the HW synth patches, and tell the first one to send PC#1, the 2nd one to send PC#2, the 3rd one to send PC#3, etc....
  -  Load Controller.
I think the FC-1 does this automatically during programming.  When playing the FTP alone, you have to press the "Load Controller" button so the parameters of the 5 user HW Synth patches you just created get loaded onto the FTP and are available without the computer.
  -  Using a 5-pin MIDI cable, connect your FC-1 MIDI Out to the HW synth MIDI In.
  -  Test...

Hope this helps you get started.  Good luck!

Shawn
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

musicamex

Shawnb, you are truly a patient teacher.  Thank you for the detail in your "how to".  All in all i am amazed at the complexity of the process involved and to be honest think it will take me several tries to even get the first patch on the hardware synth list.   Even one designed for guitar like the GR33.    Imho.....This fc1 pedal is really never could make it with all but maybe 2 or 3 musicians i know as a means of triggering hardware synths, and i know and do repairs for literally hundreds of musicians.  I think it's (fc1) will be handy for someone with elantrics i pad and usb camera setup.  But since i now have one, i am determined to figure it out.   One of the reasons i stopped using the gr33 was its latency.  Id really like to know if anyone has played around with the fc1 and gr33 combo.  Somewhere on v guitar i read how great FTP worked with hardware synths.  Am i mistaken in thinking that is a viable pursuit to get my hardware synths to perform better?

A pipe dream would be drag and drop to set up patch lists for hardware synths in the FTP world, and maybe someday that will be possible. 

I think i need to study the principles of midi more.  It really hasn't been necessary with all of the various combos of hardware i used in the past.  I thought with computers it would become even easier, and perhaps it eventually will.

I'll try what you described tomorrow after i get some wiring done for my new shops.  Thanks again.  Please keep the suggestions coming.  I'm in too deep and am too stubborn to give up without playing at least a few HW patches with the FC1.    Thanks again.


musicamex

B4 i start my day, and after reading this process again, i am curious why my casio keyboard was able to play all 6 strings without any hardware or software changes.  Before installed the beta software or even connected the fc1 to the laptop, i plugged it in and connected it to my casio keyboard.  It worked fine ie put out sound on all 6 strings but i couldnt change patches with the midi cable plugged in.  Odd, isn't it, being a keyboard triggered by a guitar?

Elantric

Learn the different MIDI Modes the FTP Transmits

MIDI Poly mode sends all strings on one MIDI Channel and has a chromatic mode  for triggering pianos

MIDI MONO MODE places one string per MIDI Channel (6) and provides independent string bending

In 2013 when I took delivery of my 1st FTP , I had it working with my iPad on the first day right out of the box and use the FTP D pad to change patches up/down and enable disable chromatic mode with Dpad left / right
No FC-1 required

musicamex

I think the key for me, Elantric, is to LEARN MIDI if i am going to do much more with FTP  and FC1.   I should have listened to you about apple being the way to go, but i was so entrenched in windows, i decided to get a souped up laptop that would more mesh with what i already had been using with my music gear for years. Then the fc1 came out. 
I do have an apple tower i got for some work that i know nothing at all about.  Maybe I'll hook it up and see if it works.

It is amazing to me how easy v guitar had been for me for over 15 yrs.  FTP has made me realize how much i have depended on the manufacturer to make up for my lack of technical knowledge, and streamline my path to successfully using their product. 

Elantric

QuoteI think the key for me, Elantric, is to LEARN MIDI if i am going to do much more with FTP  and FC1.

MIDI Tutorials
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2977.0

musicamex

Thanks Elantric.  Never too late to learn, even for a "senior" senior señor member. Ahorita voy a ganar!

shawnb

Quote from: musicamex on August 29, 2016, 01:55:47 PMI think the key for me, Elantric, is to LEARN MIDI if i am going to do much more with FTP  and FC1.

The most important thing to do to LEARN MIDI is to de-mystify it.  Observe MIDI traffic.  Most of my MIDI knowledge is from recording MIDI signals into my DAW and inspecting the Event List.   

Very easy to do...   Take the MIDI output from your FC-1 into a MIDI input into your DAW.  Create a simple MIDI track, and record away.   Try and understand everything in there.  What types of messages are used?.  What channels are they on?  What happens when you press the D-pad up & down?   Play a note?  Bend a note?   Use a whammy bar?

Once you SEE it, it is much easier to understand it. 

If you need to dig deeper, you can get a MIDI monitor such as MIDI-OX or one of the little hand-held hardware monitors.  But for now, just using your DAW is probably OK. 

I am now teaching my son about MIDI, as he is getting interested in EDM (electronic dance music  :-\).  First thing I did was view a keyboard's output using MIDI-OX.  We turned the MOD wheel, and saw what CC data looked like.  We turned the pitch wheel and saw raw pitchbend data.  We played a note on the keyboard and saw NOTE data.   Three completely different types of MIDI doodads, that were actually easy to read.  They were all associated with a channel - another interesting concept.  And notes were actually TWO different doodads - a NOTE ON and a NOTE OFF...   

Start by recording some MIDI and try and understand it. 

(My son does stage crew in high school - lighting & sound.  First thing he asked me was what I was doing with all the DMX cables...   ::)  But that's another story for another day...)
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

musicamex

I'll try what you mentioned Shawnb later after my worker leaves.  We are doing cement work today, and he can have as many questions as i do about midi! 

I will send some photos later of what will be my my new recording interface, a Yamaha 12 ch mixer.  I have so much gear i am probably not getting the most from due to lack of understanding.   I have been fixing crap gear and instruments for fellow musicians for so long I havent kept up with learning about my own gear.  Now that i am in a less accessible location, it is time take charge of my own sounds again.  My recording in the past has been pretty basic records of ideas.  Over the years i played on a few cds, mostly to sell at gigs, but wasnt involved in much more then playing my parts.

Thank you amigo....