VG-99 - King's X - Ty Tabor

Started by Smash, May 01, 2013, 02:27:20 PM

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Smash

King's X – Ty Tabor

First things first – I think I tried to do too much with this patch as will become clear if you read the patch build explanation. There is a lot going on for what appears to be a relatively straightforward sound!

IMPORTANT
This patch is designed specifically to run in Stereo – mono users =  no warranty expressed or implied
You MUST have an FC300 foot controller to be able to use this patch – sorry!

Playing the Patch


GK pickup Volume = Mid Boost (to emulate Strat Elite mbx) – sweet spot is about 1/3.

EXP1 = Alternate tunings
     Fully Up = stock tuning (Prisoner etc)
     First third = Drop D (It's Love, Black Flag etc)
     Second Third = Full tone drop (Goldilox Reprise)
     Last Third = Drop D down ½ step (Dogman)

Exp2 = Preamp gain for cleanish to dirty

Exp2 Switch = Solo Mode

CTL1 = P90 guitar model for Dogman type stuff

What does it Sound Like?


I've done two demos - one just guitar and one with the patch sat in original Kings X tracks after eliminating Ty's guitar

Guitar Only:

https://soundcloud.com/smashmashups/kings-x-vg99-demo-guitar-only?in=smashmashups/sets/vg99-patches

1. Prisoner (hear the EXP2 gain being used)
2. Black Flag (drop D – Mid boost about ½ - Solo mode demo as well)
3. It's Love (drop D – Mid Boost at 0)
4. Dogman (Drop D ½ step down, CTL1 engaged, Solo mode demo as well)

Full Mix

https://soundcloud.com/smashmashups/kings-x-ty-tabor-vg99-patch?in=smashmashups/sets/vg99-patches

1.   Prisoner
2.   It's Love
3.   Dogman

Patch Build

In the early years of King's X Ty Tabor achieved a totally unique sound which everyone loved but he was very secretive about. We now know that the basic set up was an Elite Strat which has lace sensor pick ups and TBX and MBX tone control preamp, going into a Lab Series L5 amp and using a Roland SDE digital Delay. Elite strat first – very unique sound, like a sort of "hi-fi" version of a strat super clean top end and dip around 4k which pronounces the whole "hifi" thing. I used a classic strat model, and Eq'd to try and match. L5 amp – sheesh – well this thing is also unique in that it has a thing called a multi filter which is actually a 6 band comb filter as far as I can tell. It's actually impossible to emulate on the VG but you can mimic some of the effects which give that characteristic "thrust" to Ty's sound. A comb filter is basically a delay based filter – so you could use a really short delay – like 1ms to simulate that kind of effect but it doesn't give you enough control. The steps are too big. So I used two flangers, one after the other, and set the rate to zero and then used the manual control as a fine tuned delay sort of. I picked two manual settings that peaked complementary frequencies and blended until it sounded in the ball park. Finally that SDE was used to give a very verging on phasery chorus so I messed with a chorus until it sounded OK.

The first few King's X albums have a constant formula for recording the guitar sounds – every track has double track rhythm guitar hard panned left and right whereas virtually all solos are panned centre. So I duplicated the A chain onto B and then set a channel delay that varied from around 10 to 20ms depending on input level or how hard you hit the strings in other words – the iodea being that the delay between left and right changed constantly instead of being stuck. Trying to suggest a different track I guess. It wasn't that successful but it does help.

Solo mode sees both channels pan centre with one channel becoming much more dominant and ramps up the level a bit plus ups the limiter output to give more gain at the front end of the amp.

CTL1 switches the guitar model from strat to P90 for the more dogman tones which used the Zion guitar as it has more similar pups than the strat. It also kicks up the trable and bass on the mixer for more nastiness and turns off the "thrust" (those double flangers) as at that point he wasn't using the L5 amps.

It actually does more than all the above but I'm losing track and can't actually be bothered to write any more!

By no means do I think this is bang on Ty – I think it's in the ball park and would warmly welcome anyone's fine tuning!

*Edit* Let me know if you want the guitar eliminated backing tracks i created - Dogman is just an absolute blast to play along with!

Elantric

Smash excellent work!

Quote*Edit* Let me know if you want the guitar eliminated backing tracks i created - Dogman is just an absolute blast to play along with!


I would love a download link to these!

Or put them as MP3 here
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=downloads;cat=24

aliensporebomb

BRAVO - you have nailed the essence of the first four King's X discs in a patch!  I literally had less than a minute to play with this but I could already tell that it was superior and the integration with the FC-300 was BRILLIANT.  Bravo, this should have been part of the original patch set in the VG-99.  I'm going to have a TON of fun with this one and I was just sitting there with my strat riffing away and smiling from ear to ear.

LOVE IT!  And once the KX fans get wind of it..... maybe they'll sell a few more. 

:)
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

aliensporebomb

Quote from: Elantric on May 01, 2013, 05:28:17 PM
Smash excellent work!


I would love a download link to these!

Or put them as MP3 here
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=downloads;cat=24

Agreed.  I want to listen to this - you play like Ty too which is no mean feat!
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

Smash

Thanks for your kind words  :)

OK here are the "backing tracks" - they are what they are, plenty of artifacts from the guitar elimination. Some have been more successful than others but once you start playing along with them - well, it's just a lot of fun to play and you don't notice the short comings.

I've put a click at the start of each one. My absolute favourite to play along with is Dogman - the Mrs gets quite amused with the (quite frankly) ridiculous guitar faces I'm pulling by about 10 seconds in, lol!

I thought I might put a video of the patch up on youtube and would like to ask - Elantric, if I do this would you mind if I stuck a link to the forums or would you rather I didn't (would understand from knowing only a little of the history).

Enough - here's the tracks with a bonus one thrown in for good measure. Sorry I couldn't attach to the forum - I broke the file size limit on every one.

Black Flag - http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?deprecjaoh49ryu

Dogman - http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?h5j1fquxa7hszwo

It's Love - http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?beomxdj2n2oui4u

Lost in Germany - http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?b8gw3wa6inm2d5r

Prisoner - http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?34457kad8e02mg7

Kevin M


rolandvg99

To V or not to V: That is the question.

My little Soundcloud corner

aliensporebomb

The only thing I would say is that on the original Elite strats they didn't use Lace Sensor pickups - instead, they used these really hard to find active pickups that Fender wouldn't sell individually - you had to buy them with one of the guitars and you couldn't buy them after the fact - I read an interview where Ty (who had numerous Elite strats) wanted to buy the pickups so he could retrofit all of his stratocasters and other guitars with single coils with those pickups and preamp system and Fender couldn't/wouldn't do it.

These were active pickups with a booster system but not like EMG pickups - the closest you might get would be Evans pickups (also hard to find).  Some of Alex Lifeson's 80s work with Rush had strats with Evans pickups in them and it sounds a little like some of the work on the "King's X" self titled fourth album although Alex used a lot more effects but tonally they were somewhat similar.  I really loved that CD "World Around Me", "Prisoner", "The Big Picture", "Lost in Germany" was one heck of a start to a CD. 

I even tried to get a Ty type sound with my EMG equipped superstrats using the FAT boost which wasn't bright enough - to get the grind you had to lose the highs.  I'd never even seen a Lab L5 at that point and figured my Mesa would do it and it kinda did but those is closer. 

Again, great patch!
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

Smash

Dunno where I got that Lace Sensor thing from then - just had it in my head! (but then there's a lot of things in my head are very wrong, lol!)

Even now his Royal Tyness rig details that are scattered online are a bit sketchy  :)

aliensporebomb

The one that intrigues me is the rackmounted box he had custom built using the "electronics from one of the Elite Strat guitars".  Supposedly, then, any guitar can sound like that thru his rig whatever it might be.  I've only heard that discussed a few times but it seemed weird that they would rackmount the electronics from inside the guitars so it implies the active pickups may not have had circuits inside them but external.  I know the new Carvin active pickups have the active circuitry separate from the pickups unlike EMGs which are integrated so this might make some sense.

And the other interesting part of his rig: his new Egnater amp head with four different preamp sections that are footswitchable.  Jeff Hilligan of Egnater amps said about these modules at Rig-Talk.com:

QuoteModule one (Gretchen)...is based off the COD module with over a year of me obsessing over his old tone...tweaking different values of res, caps and tone controls. Channel A obtains his older clean tone and channel B the heavier old tone. Go listen to Pleides on Gretchen, this song starts out with channel A and then moves to channel B.

Module 2 (XV) is based off the EG5 again with tweaks for Ty.

Module 3 (SL2) for Earcandy, Dogman stuff, stock.

Module 4 (SL or Vox) stock.

Just so everyone understands me, these modules were able to provide Ty what "HE HEARS" as his old tone and his newer tones from Dogman to Earcandy. That being said, some may feel that the modules are not his old or new tone. I don't care.  Ty loves them and said to me that for 20 years amp builders have sent him amps saying they nailed his Gretchen tone and they sounded nowhere near it.......

He looked my in the eyes and said the Gretchen module is 95% accurate to his old tone with the lab and the elite. End of story! 

Not sure if they will be production modules as of yet. For now you all will have to just sit tight till all has been hammered out! They will be on tour and they have custom faceplates once they are done I will post pics of them!

What if under the hood there's a VG-99 in there with a solid state power amp?  I kid, I kid.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

Elantric

#10
QuoteThe one that intrigues me is the rackmounted box he had custom built using the "electronics from one of the Elite Strat guitars".

Plans and details to Build a 1983 Fender Elite Strat electronics is here

(took 20 seconds using Google Image Search)
http://eledar.net/Music/walnelite/









I worked with Buzz Feiten in 1984 with his 1983 Fender Elite Tele that used essentailly the same electronics with an internal dummy hum cancelling coil.

I recall Paul Rivera had a hand in the design of the Fender Elite preamp back in 1983.

By 1986, Fender was an entirely new company, and these 1983 designs were sold for scrap.

I remember locating N.O.S.  (sold for scrap)  Fender Elite Strat PC boards at Apex Electronics in San Fernando, CA in the 1990's
http://www.apexelectronic.com/

If you are ever in the Los Angeles area- Apex is one of thee places to visit!



aliensporebomb

So, in essence, a mid-boost. 

I have a guitar with EMG SA/89 and SPC (Strat Presence Control which was also nicknamed the "Fat Boost").  The 89 allowed you to turn it into a single SA (single coil) and that sound with the SPC gave you the David Gilmour lead sound in spades but the 89 in 85 dual coil mode with the fat was almost too much of a good thing - I LOVED that sound but it's kind of hard to control in some respects.   I once did a track called "Banana Republic" which was a "Fake King's X" tone but into my Mesa rig it was more of a "Ty Uses a Mesa" sound. 

Amazing those Elite strats command two grand or more these days.

Sadly when I head to California tomorrow I'll be in the San Francisco and San Rafael areas so won't be able to visit that place!
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

Elantric

QuoteSadly when I head to California tomorrow I'll be in the San Francisco and San Rafael areas so won't be able to visit that place!

Maybe say hello to ShawnB, who is in San Francisco

Im a 4 hour car drive south on the 101  in San Luis Obispo area.