Cycfi Six Pack Project - Hexaphonic Pickup Project

Started by Elantric, May 24, 2013, 04:33:28 PM

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Elantric

#25
QuoteI, for one, believe there is a small but viable market for aftermarket GK pickups with options for surface mounting, adjustable poles for height and radius, and under pickguard wiring. Available in Gibson and Fender spacing. Of course a replaceable cover in white, black, and cream would be perfect. I'd buy 3 for $100 - $120 each immediately.


My market research says otherwise. In low volume expect to pay $200-$300 for a custom radius /spacing GK3 PU alone,no active electronics.
I would buy new GK3 and use the PU for the individual PU coils, as these are currently available and are designed for minimal crosstalk.

Remember only .0001% of guitarists have heard about Roland Hex PU technology, even less are interested and fewer actually make a purchase.

QuoteI'd buy this in a heartbeat. On a (possibly) related note, has anyone tried rehousing a GK-3 in a symmetrical shape in line with the radius of their own guitars, or would this not work?

Stick Enterprises  makes custom radius/spaced  GK-3 PU's for Chapman Stick use. They are more than $100 btw.

Contact them, they might be able to accommodate and make a GK-3 that actually suits a Gibson guitar.
http://www.stick.com/instruments/midi/gk3/


Or Get creative and DIY.

abhijitnath

Ooh- that looks nice. I wouldn't mind DIYing, but I have no idea where to start!
In the PRS book, there is this rehoused GK-3 on some custom guitar, which is gold colored and symmetrical, to match the bridge. Extremely gaudy, but at least it matches.

RogerGLewis

#27
I have been looking at EFI and RF shielding solutions as I have still not cured my Variax transplant fully of the DSP noise going into the analogue Mag outputs. I am determined to be able to use the Mags The VAriax 300 on board and the Rackvax I have made for myself using the GK3 also fitted to my teliax.

Anyway my reading lead to this interesting write up on the smallest Hexaphonic magnetic  pickup currently in development.


http://www.cycfi.com/projects/six-pack/cycfi-pack-hexaphonic-pickup-v1-1/
Here's the V1.1 prototype based on the V1.0 design and specification. The version is bumped to 1.1 since there are slight modifications from the original 1.0 design. If you haven't seen the original design specifications yet, it would be good to do so now.

Neo

The smallest active magnetic pickup in the world?  Here's the Neo 1.1 prototype.

Heres my new rig in action the Rackvax and teliax.



My new Warmouth has the Ghost Hexpander kit so I will be experimenting with the Ghost system over the next few weeks on the VG88 I have I have enjoyed the Reverend ( Hinson Unknown ) P90's on that guitar with the Rackvax utilising the 15 pin out.



I am thinking of getting some of this to isolate the DSP in the Teliax from the Magnetic pots and the PUP's.

Also cleared my workbench for resuming the Tonefreqz modeling pedal build, Have soldering Iron will travel!

http://www.kemtron.co.uk/e-shop/flat-sheet-material.html

Elantric

Roger,

Its best to repost all above on the existing Cycfi Six Pack Hexaphonic Pickup thread here:

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8666.msg62201#msg62201

Elantric

RogerGLewis wrote>

I have been looking at EFI and RF shielding solutions as I have still not cured my Variax transplant fully of the DSP noise going into the analogue Mag outputs. I am determined to be able to use the Mags The VAriax 300 on board and the Rackvax I have made for myself using the GK3 also fitted to my teliax.

Anyway my reading lead to this interesting write up on the smallest Hexaphonic magnetic  pickup currently in development.


http://www.cycfi.com/projects/six-pack/cycfi-pack-hexaphonic-pickup-v1-1/
Here's the V1.1 prototype based on the V1.0 design and specification. The version is bumped to 1.1 since there are slight modifications from the original 1.0 design. If you haven't seen the original design specifications yet, it would be good to do so now.

Neo

The smallest active magnetic pickup in the world?  Here's the Neo 1.1 prototype.

Heres my new rig in action the Rackvax and teliax.



My new Warmouth has the Ghost Hexpander kit so I will be experimenting with the Ghost system over the next few weeks on the VG88 I have I have enjoyed the Reverend ( Hinson Unknown ) P90's on that guitar with the Rackvax utilising the 15 pin out.



I am thinking of getting some of this to isolate the DSP in the Teliax from the Magnetic pots and the PUP's.

Also cleared my workbench for resuming the Tonefreqz modeling pedal build, Have soldering Iron will travel!

http://www.kemtron.co.uk/e-shop/flat-sheet-material.html

Elantric

My 2 cents - Id be interested to see published adjacent string crosstalk immunity specs - Because looking at the pics, it would appear adjacent string crosstalk might be a problem when used with VG-99 / GR-55's  DSP Modeled Alt tunings or other Guitar to MIDI systems


djowel

Quote from: Elantric on October 21, 2013, 01:03:36 PM
My 2 cents - Id be interested to see published adjacent string crosstalk immunity specs - Because looking at the pics, it would appear adjacent string crosstalk might be a problem when used with VG-99 / GR-55's  DSP Modeled Alt tunings or other Guitar to MIDI systems

Last I checked (I mentioned this in this thread), I am getting -38db crosstalk. I measure the E and A string pickups while hitting the E string. I chose the E string because it has the heftiest magnetic mass and should be picked up easily by the adjacent (A) pickup compared to the other strings. I got -38 db from averaging 20 takes. I tested with the pickup about 2-3 mm from the string:



I know you mentioned -45db crosstalk (with the PU no more than 1mm away from the strings), but would you happen to have actual scope measurements?



RogerGLewis

I have been looking at EFI and RF shielding solutions as I have still not cured my Variax transplant fully of the DSP noise going into the analogue Mag outputs. I am determined to be able to use the Mags The VAriax 300 on board and the Rackvax I have made for myself using the GK3 also fitted to my teliax.

Anyway my reading lead to this interesting write up on the smallest Hexaphonic magnetic  pickup currently in development.


http://www.cycfi.com/projects/six-pack/cycfi-pack-hexaphonic-pickup-v1-1/
Here's the V1.1 prototype based on the V1.0 design and specification. The version is bumped to 1.1 since there are slight modifications from the original 1.0 design. If you haven't seen the original design specifications yet, it would be good to do so now.

Neo

The smallest active magnetic pickup in the world?  Here's the Neo 1.1 prototype.

Heres my new rig in action the Rackvax and teliax.



My new Warmouth has the Ghost Hexpander kit so I will be experimenting with the Ghost system over the next few weeks on the VG88 I have I have enjoyed the Reverend ( Hinson Unknown ) P90's on that guitar with the Rackvax utilising the 15 pin out.



I am thinking of getting some of this to isolate the DSP in the Teliax from the Magnetic pots and the PUP's.

Also cleared my workbench for resuming the Tonefreqz modeling pedal build, Have soldering Iron will travel!

http://www.kemtron.co.uk/e-shop/flat-sheet-material.html
Note.

I did a search before posting this in a new thread yeaterday, Nothing Came up ( I searched the title of the article linked to.

Removed other post. Interesting project and a great blog from Cycfi, I enjoyed reading it last night. And now this whole thread to read.

djowel

Quote from: RogerGLewis on October 21, 2013, 11:32:37 PM
Removed other post. Interesting project and a great blog from Cycfi, I enjoyed reading it last night. And now this whole thread to read.

Thanks, RogerGLewis. Here's the latest, if you haven't read it yet. We're at v1.4 now:

  http://www.cycfi.com/2013/10/pre-production-prototype/





There will also be a change in direction as we focus more on the Neo series. The Six Pack pickup will therefore morph into Neo6. I will introduce the Neo series very soon. The series will include Neo1, Neo2, Neo6, Neo7 and Neo8. Like before, the final designs will be Open Hardware. We will make everything available: the designs, schematics and all.

Elantric

#34
IMHO if you are going this far with your Hex PU design, why not buy a new/ used GR55 and GK3 and swap the stock  GK3 PU to accept yours instead. If you wish to drum up more interest for your PU, there exists a large several decades old community of Roland GK 13 pin guitarists who may embrace your product  - but only if it can be shown to be superior to a GK-3


whippinpost91850

Quote from: Elantric on October 22, 2013, 08:00:14 AM
IMHO if you are going this far with your Hex PU design, why not buy a new/ used GR55 and GK3 and swap the stock  GK3 PU to accept yours instead. If you wish to drum up more interest for your PU, there exists a large several decades old community of Roland GK 13 pin guitarists who may embrace your product  - but only if it can be shown to be superior to a GK-3
Can't agree enough. I've been following this for awhile with mild interest, but my interest would be greatly hightened if this would be a better alternative to GK-3

GraemeJ

I've been following this thread with only a minimal interest, but I am now becoming confused as to the actual design purpose of this pickup?

As I understand it, it will be a drop-in replacement for a normal Strat pickup.  Considering the location of the bridge pickup on a Strat, how is this going to be of any use as a driver for a pitch to midi device, as the normal recommendation is to mount a hex pickup as close to the bridge as possible?

datsunrobbie

I agree absolutely about the GK replacement angle. If this pickup could be mounted in place of a normal strat pickup, plug in to the existing Roland circuit board (or some alternative to get to 13-pin output), and drive the VG-99 as well as a GK-3 it would be a very interesting alternative. I mention the VG-99 because "Again, this pickup is not intended for a MIDI synthesizer. MIDI guitar synths lose the nuance and feel of the original raw guitar signal. A MIDI guitar synth cannot capture tonal character variations resulting from guitar playing techniques such as forced and natural harmonics, finger position, finger and pick attack, string noise, etc". If it actually has an edge on the GK-3 in these respects it should enhance the use of COSM modeling. If not, I fear I'm missing the point  :P

admin

#38
Might work as a replacement for a dead Bartolini 6 channel PU in a Steve Ripley 6 channel guitar
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Ripley-Guitars/124241834292134


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Ripley

djowel

I'm sorry if I caused confusion. From the start, I was just trying to reply to comments and questions regarding the project. I was not the one who initiated this thread to begin with. I might have posted one update, assuming initially that there is interest, but I refrained from doing so again; until this later post by RogerGLewis, for which again, I tried to reply.

Again, I'm sorry for the confusion. The pickup I designed is not intended for MIDI conversion and is not designed as replacement for the GK pickups. 

Elantric

QuoteThe pickup I designed is not intended for MIDI conversion and is not designed as replacement for the GK pickups. 

That leaves the Pure Data hex processing Guitarists as the remaining market.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8207.0


Or might sell to Henry Juszkiewicz for the next 6 channel / 6 amp surround sound Gibson guitar

http://www.techshout.com/general/2006/30/gibson-hd-6x-pro-digital-guitar-with-a-traditional-les-paul-design-unveiled/


djowel

Quote from: Elantric on October 22, 2013, 05:17:59 PM
That leaves the Pure Data hex processing Guitarists as the remaining market.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8207.0


Or might sell to Henry Juszkiewicz for the next 6 channel / 6 amp surround sound Gibson guitar

http://www.techshout.com/general/2006/30/gibson-hd-6x-pro-digital-guitar-with-a-traditional-les-paul-design-unveiled/

Elantric, if I haven't made myself clear yet, I am not trying to sell anything here nor am I targeting an existing "market". More than anything else, my goal is to explore the "Final Frontier" as Craig Anderton sums it in this article: http://www.harmonycentral.com/t5/DIY-Articles/Put-a-Hex-on-Your-Guitar-Pickup-that-Is/ba-p/34629068. There's more to it than the two links you gave, you know, but I do not want to digress. Obviously, I am in the wrong forum.

Elantric

#42
Quote
Elantric, if I haven't made myself clear yet, I am not trying to sell anything here nor am I targeting an existing "market". More than anything else, my goal is to explore the "Final Frontier" as Craig Anderton sums it in this article: http://www.harmonycentral.com/t5/DIY-Articles/Put-a-Hex-on-Your-Guitar-Pickup-that-Is/ba-p/34629068. There's more to it than the two links you gave, you know, but I do not want to digress. Obviously, I am in the wrong forum.

QuoteGibson's Dark Fire, Dusk Tiger, and Firebird X guitars have the most elegant hex pickup implementation, as each eschews the use of the standard 13-pin Roland connector and sends a multiplexed combination of the six outputs down a standard stereo cable.


Read this and reconsider (Myself and many others here at www.VGuitarforums.com and or sister site www.FutureGuitarNow.com WERE the major Gibson Dark Fire User Group and Support Team (2009-2011)
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=downloads;sa=downfile&id=23

shawnb


I'm very interested in hearing this in action!   It seems focused on 6-channel audio & sustain & "going beyond sustain".   The potential for new & cool sounds is definitely there, I want to hear a sound test!

You do NOT want to emulate the Gibson DarkFire - you're talking to a DF veteran here.  Some DF lessons apply here.  First off, if you run the DF thru some processing, i.e., try to tie it into the rest of your rig, and it sounded too dirty.  Noise upstream is amplified downstream.  We tech guys love our FX, and will likely end up trying to incorporate your product into our existing rig...   

Also, there was the really bad 13-pin implementation, missing VOL and S1 and S2 - this made it very difficult to actually play on stage, as you had NO controls with which to communicate with your rig & processing.  Oddly, this was the killer for me, it's just impractical. 

Also, with technology products, support is a hard requirement.  Gibson's support sucked, worse than sucked, they were (and are) disowning their product and their initial support promises.  They might know how to support mag pu guitars, but not technology.  With technology, plan on supporting LOTS of folks with different skill levels - who are going to need LOTS of help. 

The DF was billed as a major advancement in technology, but for all its technology, it remained a killer *analog* guitar.  Play it on its own and it's guite good - the different "chameleon" tones sound great. I think the DF is better suited for a traditional jazz guitarist (a handful of fixed, cool tones, played straight up) than as a tech guitar. 

But try to work your DF with your other gear and you end up disappointed; we guitar tech junkies love mixing and matching our toys.  Your pickup will not be the ONLY thing we play. 

So... the DF lessons summary, and I think they all apply to your product:
1) It's gotta work with the rest of your rig #1: It can't be so dirty you can't run it thru a hi-gain amp or FX downstream. 
2) It's gotta work with the rest of your rig #2: It can't be another one-off technology.  The more you can do to feed other gear the better (Variax, Roland, FTP (???)).  Maybe a simple add-on converter device, maybe sold separately. 
3) Provide some mechanism to change presets & adjust parameters from the guitar. 
4) Be prepared to provide support - even difficult, tech support for noobs.

Shawn
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

djowel

#44
Quote from: shawnb on November 12, 2013, 09:38:14 AM
I'm very interested in hearing this in action!   It seems focused on 6-channel audio & sustain & "going beyond sustain".   The potential for new & cool sounds is definitely there, I want to hear a sound test!

Here are some sound clips:

http://www.cycfi.com/projects/neo-series/sculpting-the-tone/

In the demo, I took advantage of the flat frequency response to sculpt the tone using EQ matching in the DAW where I capture the EQ of another guitar (e.g. classical guitar, Les Paul, EMG-81) and match and apply it to the Neo pickups. Notice the panning too. "the panning is trippy" says darren in the sevenstring forum. Next time, I'll do some DSP deconvolution/convolution. No infinite sustain yet (we're still working on that). But the curent results are looking good, IMO.

Thanks for your suggestions, shawnb. I will keep that in mind. As a matter of fact, I have it as a checklist in my notes. Thanks a lot for sharing.


Elantric

#46
Try here:
http://www.cycfi.com/2014/02/neo-series-active-polyphonic-pickups/


After a year in research and development, let me present to you the Neo Series Active Polyphonic Pickups. The Neos are very small, Neodymium-core active pickups that can be used individually or in groups. These are hacker friendly, general purpose pickups that can be used in a variety of applications. The pickups will be available in Late March 2014.

Here's a short clip with a "classical" EQ capture with the Cycfi Neo6 polyphonic pickup mounted on a Fender Stratocaster bridge position. The strings are panned from right to left, with the low-E at the right and the high-E at the left. See Sculpting the Tone for details.
http://www.cycfi.com/projects/neo-series/sculpting-the-tone/

For details, check out these pages:

Main page: http://www.cycfi.com/projects/neo-series/
Data sheet: http://www.cycfi.com/neo-series-datasheet/
More Sound Samples: http://www.cycfi.com/projects/neo-series/sculpting-the-tone/

The Neos are the culmination of the Six-pack project. These are active pickups with low impedance coils and individual balanced, low-power, low-noise preamplifier for each coil.

Initial production will be limited. To help us assess production scale, join our community at Facebook or Google+ or send us a message. Pricing and availability to be announced. Drop us a note or comment and automatically get 20% off.

djowel

Quote from: BackDAWman on February 24, 2014, 07:47:42 PM
I can't get the link to work.... ???

Whoops. Sorry about that. Bad link. Thank you, Elantric for the corrected links.


KuRi

When will we see this installed on guitars ready for sale? XD