GT-100 - Midi routing Question??????

Started by Jim Williams, January 26, 2013, 07:25:36 AM

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Jim Williams

I have a Boss GT-100 pedal I use and I control other midi devices with it. This is pretty cut and dry so far but I am about to mix things up a bit. I want to send PC information to my other devices in specific patch change programs. so what I mean I I select the first pedal on the GT-100 (PC001) I want it to send a PC010 message to the corresponding device. I Know with the GR-55 I can set up the the program map but with some other devices I can't get to the program map for example my Alesis Nano synth or my Forte 3 software on my computer. So want to do all the programing from the GT-100 and not have to edit the other devices.....is this possible and how would I do it. I am not a midi virgin and I am well versed in programing midi devices and menus this is just one of those things I still need to learn. I sure Colin will have an answer(LOL)
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gumtown

The GT-100 is just like the GR-55, where you have a programmable midi program table for selecting any internal patch from receiving a PC message.
But the PC message transmit/send can not be changed from it's reletive pedal, somewhere in the universal midi specification is a requirement that a device sends a standard midi PC and it is up to the receiving device to arrange it's midi receive arrangement of it's program table.

So... no it can't be done with the GT-100.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Mrchevy

being the main guy who led me to understanding the midi mapping thing, I thought I'd help you out with this. I would open up the devices you want to control, find the computer chip inside, and take some paper clips to jumper the 1's and 0's in the chip to make them do what you want them to do  ;D . On a more serious note, I wish I could help you with this and return the favor.
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ivor-honda

#3
Hello,

I am looking for help for a midi problem I have.

I have just lashed out and bought a GT 100 and I also have a Roland GR 20 guitar synth with a Godin guitar.

I connect the Godin to the GR 20 via the 13 pin cable and the guitar out on the GR 20 goes to the input of the GT 100.

If I can just explain what I am trying to do (or would like to do):
Imagine if you will that I am playing the song "Summertime", and I first select the patch (on the GT 100) I would like the GT100 to tell the GR 20 to switch to the appropriate patch I have set up on the GR 20, then when I come to play the guitar solo part of the song (by pressing the Accel/Ctl) I would like the GT 100 to tell the GR 20 to keep quiet (either by switching to another GR 20 patch that is set up with no sound or by reducing the GR 20s volume) and when I have finished (ie by pressing the Accel/Ctl pedal again) I would like the GR 20 to  back to the original GR 20 patch or the volume restored.

What happens right now is that just before the solo starts I end up "tap dancing" all over the GT 100 and the GR 20 like a demented Fred Astaire trying to change to the correct patches etc.

I understand a little about midi (but not that much) but I don't know if I am asking the GT100 to do something it can't do. Also being new to the GT 100 I am still having problems finding my way around it (even though all the reports about the GT 100 said it was easy to use, but I am not complaining, I have always had problems understanding Roland manuals).

I have tried looking through the manuals and by using the Boss Tone Studio but I can't see any way of entering or sending Programme Change messages from the GT 100 to the GR 20 (the "PC out" is ON in the system settings).

I am using "sub ctl 1 and 2" switches as well and they seem to work ok (ie I can change to the guitar tuner using the switches). 

So is it possible? And if it is any step by step guide (as I mentioned I am quite new to the GT100) would be much appreciated or pointing me in the right direction would help as well.

Regards

Colin

Jim Williams

I don't believe you should be able to switch patches on the GR from control switches. You may set up patches with different levels for both devices. You seem to be talking about 2 kinds of midi messages CC messages that are control changes with in each patch and PC messages that are Patch changes to move to another patch. Both are very different but you can set it up to work for what you need to do. I never got the chance to play with a GR-20 but I know it is capable of being set up for this. To setup a cross fade the GT is set for expression volume 0 t0 100 and the GR set the volume to respond to the CC#(most likely CC7 in the GT) of the GT 100 to 0. in the toe position will guitar and in the GT effects and in the heal position you will hear just the synth. for a more quick switch you can change the assign from the expression pedal to the control pedal (probably CC82) and set it to toggle.

I hope I was some kind of help and actually understood what you were asking. If you need some more specific help with patch creation fell free to personal message me and I'll see what help I can be. for now I will take a look at the GR-20 manual and get up to date with the midi of the GR-20 so I know what I am talking about.

Jimmy.
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Everything from modeling to the real deal, my house looks like a music store.

ivor-honda

Thank you Jimmy for your offer of help and I might take you up on it.

I have just found out that by changing the patch on the GT 100 automatically changes to the same patch value on the GR 20, so if I change the patch on my GT 100 to U01-3 then the GR 20 also changes to U01-3, so the PC messages seems to be working ok.

Now the next part of what I have to get to grips with is the CC#, I understand about the CC7 being the volume, CC11 being expression etc, but it's getting theses CC# commands set up in the GT 100 and getting the GT 100 to send them off to the GR 20 that I now seem to have difficulty with.

Firstly I already use the expression pedal to adjust the volume of my guitar so I don't really want to use the expression pedal to control any CC# messages, I would prefer just to use the "sub ctl 1 and 2" switches if at all possible for the CC# messages, again if possible just switching the volume off and on would be good for me.

I have been using the Boss Tone Studio to access the GT 100 and I think this is maybe where I have been falling down, I have activated the assign and these are the setting I have been using:
Source = sub ctl 1 pd
Source Mode = toggle
Target Category = midi
Target = Start/Stop (the only other option is MMC play/stop)
Target min = off (the only other option is on)
Target max = on (the only other option is off)
Active range low = 0
Active range hi = 127

And I think this my problem, as there are no mention of CC# messages and how do I tell the GT 100 that (say) I want to change CC7 (the volume) but not on the GT 100 but on a external device (the GR 20).
I hope this makes sense.

And thanks again Jimmy for your help.

Regards

Colin

Jim Williams

If you go into the system menu in the GT-100 you can assign any CC# to the external control switches. Then go into the GR-20 assigns for what ever parameter you wish to change and tell it to respond to the CC# from the GT-100. So if you assign the control pedals sub control 1= CC#1 and sub control 2= CC#2 you must have the the GR-20 assigned to one of those CC#. For example if you wish to toggle the volume from 0 to 100 make the source CC#1 and when you step on sub control 1 you will toggle the synth sound on and off.

I hope this helps.

Jimmy.
Skype: (upon Request)

Everything from modeling to the real deal, my house looks like a music store.

gumtown

#7
The GR-20 is a simple beast and doesn't have Assigns.
You should be able to setup (in the GT-100 System/global - Pedal/midi menu)
Use an external sub CTL pedal to send CC# of your choice (07, 11, or 20 can't remember - so long since I had a GR-20 and GT teamed together).
Set the external pedal to latch/toggle,
as with the GT's internal pedals, when you press the pedal, it sends CC# value of 127 (on), and when  released, the pedal it sends CC#00 (off).
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

ivor-honda

Thanks again for all the info (and patience), and the good news is that I have found where the midi CC# were hiding (I couldn't see them until I realised there were more page "taps" behind in the Midi Settings).

I have now changed the Acc/ctl in the System settings/ midi settings to CC7 and it does switch off the volume on the GR20, but ..... there is always a but ....... But when I now press the Acc/ctl switch the midi (part) now seems to act as a "momentary" switch, in that if you keep your foot on the switch the GR20 is quiet but once you take your foot off the switch the GR20 volume returns, even though the Acc/ctl switch has been set to toggle.

So my next question is do I need to set up an "assign" to tell the acc/ctl switch how to act when its pressed.
I have had a play at trying to assign the acc/ctl to act as I would like it (ie press the acc/ctl and the volume goes off (and the LED is lit), press acc/ctl again and the volume comes back (and the LED is off)), but I cant seem to find the magic formula to make this happen.

Any words of inspiration would be much appreciated.

Regards (again)

Colin 

gumtown

Quote from:  gumtown on January 25, 2015, 07:06:52 PM
The GR-20 is a simple beast and doesn't have Assigns.
You should be able to setup (in the GT-100 System/global - Pedal/midi menu)
Use an external sub CTL pedal to send CC# of your choice (07, 11, or 20 can't remember - so long since I had a GR-20 and GT teamed together).
Set the external pedal to latch/toggle,
as with the GT's internal pedals, when you press the pedal, it sends CC# value of 127 (on), and when  released, the pedal it sends CC#00 (off).

the answer is in here, use the external Sub CTL pedal and set it to latch/toggle, that is the only way around it as the CC# send from the GT pedals are not any further programmable for external actions.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

ivor-honda

Thanks again for your help but I think that this is a lost cause now.

I have tried setting up the sub/ctl switch in the toggle position but I still get the same results ie the volume does go off as long as the switch stays depressed but as soon as you release the switch the volume resumes.

I would like to thank you both for your help but it looks like I will have to keep up with the tap dancing method of switching the GR 20.

Regards

Colin

gumtown

What sort of external CTL switch are you using?
If you have the Boss FS-6 and can set the pedal side switch to 'latch' (led toggles on/off on the external pedal with each press) then it should do the same with the CC# data it sends. (CC# data follow the pedal led state).

This setting is not associated with any 'Assigns' in the GT
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

ivor-honda

Yes you are right in that I am not using a FS-6, I am using a old switch box that I have and I have checked the switches and they are the "momentary" type switches.

At least I can say I know a lot more about the GT 100 now.

So (again) I would like to thank both of you for your time and help.

Regards

Colin

billgwx

Quote from: gumtown on January 26, 2015, 11:00:46 AM
the answer is in here, use the external Sub CTL pedal and set it to latch/toggle, that is the only way around it as the CC# send from the GT pedals are not any further programmable for external actions.

Does this mean it's impossible to use a patch level Assign to send CC data other than 0 and 127? If so that's a real bummer, since I could then not use the GT100 to control an H&K Grandmeister 36 amp the way I'd like, whose Channel and Power Soak options to name a couple have multiple and not just on/off options.

gumtown

Quote from: billgwx on September 20, 2016, 04:01:13 PM
Does this mean it's impossible to use a patch level Assign to send CC data other than 0 and 127? If so that's a real bummer, since I could then not use the GT100 to control an H&K Grandmeister 36 amp the way I'd like, whose Channel and Power Soak options to name a couple have multiple and not just on/off options.

A foot switch only has 2 positions 'on' and 'off' and sends cc# data 0=off and 127=on.
If you use a Expression pedal, it will send variable values between 0 and 127, proportional to the pedal position.

The GT-100 Assigns can only respond to received midi cc#, the assigns do not send programmable data, only the system pedal function settings do that.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

billgwx

Too bad the foot switches weren't designed to send data other than 0 and 127 for off and on. IMO there's way too much of a disconnect for my taste between the GT-100 MIDI implementation and its patches.

Does the GT-100 respond to external PC messages? If so I might be able to use the H&K FSM 432 MK III MIDI pedal that I got with the Grandmeister as my MIDI controller, and have the amp forward the PC and CC messages it receives from that pedal to the GT-100. Not ideal but might save me the hassle of going to an entirely different multi-effects processor. Fingers crossed...

admin

#16
in the Boss  GT-100 System area, is where you can assign the MIDI channel the GT-100 listens too, it will respond to external MIDI Patch change commands



Below are the Boss GT-100 MIDI CC# Control Assignment options
After you make Control Assignments  (eight per patch are available) you can assign the specifc FX to respond to specific MIDI CC#  messages 
https://static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/GT-100_parameter_e02.pdf



QuoteToo bad the foot switches weren't designed to send data other than 0 and 127 for off and on. IMO there's way too much of a disconnect for my taste between the GT-100 MIDI implementation and its patches.

For most MIDI CC# on/off switch type controllers, on=127 and off=0. Thats true for most MIDI gear out in the world

Expression pedals are a whole different situation.

MIDI message FAQ
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2977.0

billgwx

Thanks! I was browsing the GT-100 documentation earlier and saw and it does accept both MIDI PC and CC messages. Kinda complicated but I might be able to pull this off. Want to still be able to take advantage of the GT-100 Wah/Foot Volume and some other effects...

Elantric

Quote. Want to still be able to take advantage of the GT-100 Wah/Foot Volume and some other effects...


Read about  Roland / Boss Control Assignments in these docs:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=88.0


billgwx

Oh well, looks like I can't do what I wanted within a patch, which was to send multiple CC's to the amp via footswitch to go from let's say clean at 5W to crunch at 18W. Looks that requires a PC, which can only be done via patch change, which I then hope the amp handles cleanly in terms of channel switch/gain/volume/EQ, and the GT-100 smoothly not abruptly in terms of modulation/delay/reverb...