Tronical Tune

Started by Elantric, May 08, 2012, 10:19:10 AM

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Elantric

#50
http://www.mopo.de/nachrichten/die-instrumente-stimmen-sich-selbst-wunder-gitarren-aus-gross-borstel,5067140,28106980.html

Chris Adams (44) shows his Gibson Les Paul.
Photo: Ulrike Schmidt

A guitar that's true self? Sounds crazy, but there are. The Hamburger Chris Adams (44) has prepared a real pleasure with his invention of many guitarists.

Only a touch of a button - and the magic begins. Without more help, the buttons turn the head of the guitar itself. The whole process takes only a few seconds, then the guitar is tuned perfectly.

As a passionate guitarist Adam has played many concerts. It is always much time for tuning it went: "You just bought yourself an instrument to tune it, you want to play it!" The idea for "Tronical Tune" was born.
Due to the cooperation with the U.S. guitar manufacturer Gibson in 2005 from the idea of a company.

The Wonder guitar can vote using a small device itself.
The Wonder guitar can using a small device even vote.

Photo: Ulrike Schmidt
Meanwhile, work on the "Tronical GmbH" in Groß Borstel 30 employees. The emphasis is on "mechanical engineering software", after all it is at the top of an artificial intelligence. That there drinsteckt much technology, is also reflected in the price. The voting papers for retrofitting is available online from 299 euros. It is planned that "Tronical Tune" is now integrated during production in the guitars.

The financing of the project, the economic Senator Frank Horch (independent) on Tuesday officially honored at City Hall, was made possible by the investment and development bank Hamburg.

According to authorities since the program began in August 2013 were 33 business loans are approved for a total of 7.4 million euros.

Elantric

#51
Wonder if there will be a 7 string Tronical Min-Etune for this ?


http://www.premierguitar.com/articles/21541-gibson-announces-the-les-paul-classic-7-string

utensil

Quote from:  Elantric on October 14, 2014, 10:10:26 PM
Wonder if there will be a 7 string Tronical Min-Etune for this ?


http://www.premierguitar.com/articles/21541-gibson-announces-the-les-paul-classic-7-string


This looks interesting but I don't get the tuner layout, if theres a low B string it would make more sense to have the extra tuner on the other side.

Elantric



Chris Adams shows us the revolutionary Tronicaltune.

A guitar with TronicalTune looks the same, feels the same, plays the same and rocks the same – it's just always in tune. Adjust to other instruments' imperfect tuning with Reference Tuning and keep that harmony going. Perfect for home, studio and gigging: The internal lithium battery lasts for up to 300 tunings on just one charge. Rock longer with the fast and accurate tuning system, tuning your guitar in about 5 seconds and 2 strums


http://www.tronical.com/

shawnb

Very cool!

And those guys were great to work with back in the Darkfire days!  Very helpful.   

I wonder...  It must be detecting the tuning via the tuner itself...   Kinda tough, "thru" the nut?   interesting....
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

Elantric

Start at 1st post in this thread - reveals the technology behind Tronicals latest Tuning systems

shawnb

HAH!   I asked the same question 18 months ago!    ;D   
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

Majiken

I'm getting a wider neck built for my '92 Taylor 810, since I retune a fair deal (means right now different guitars for different tunings) I will definitely try the Tronicals on the new neck- this could save me 1-2 instruments per gig. Very curious & hopeful it does all it should (& not just me, several playing buddies and a couple of luthiers as well)!

One thing makes me and my luthier wonder: recently when you see kits advertised here it is mentioned that the software can be updated. Okay, not bad by itself, but we do wonder what it is they need to fix- or is this indeed just maybe more memory for tunings, greater sensitivity, or what? I've been following progress for a few years now, and the hardware has undergone significant changes- if I buy now, am I going to regret it in 2 years when the revolution reoccurs?

FWIW, packaging does not allow a straight string run from the saddle thru the nut to the tuners. At least so far- & even if it could work, that would be a deep package on the headstock, which most would not appreciate.  More to come....
Take what you need, put back a bit more, leave the place behind you better than it was before :-)

www.majiken.rocks

Majiken

Okay peeps, my new neck mentioned in the last post is built but not painted yet- since I have a 30-day return option on the Tronicals but need to allow time for proper painting I picked up the guitar with the unpainted neck on Saturday and have given it an intense intial check.  As promised, here are my impressions:

First, this is NOT a plug-and-play cure-all for bad guitar setup!  I'm not trying to suggest anybody is stupid, just recognizing from my own experience that if you basically stick to a single tuning with the same gauge strings you get accustomed to compensating for typical wear-and-tear until the issue becomes obvious to all.  If your guitar is not set up for proper intonation, if the string saddles are not properly filed etc. this system will only bring that to the forefront.

My luthier installed the kit, so I can't say anything about putting it on the guitar.  He built the headstock in the same form as the Taylor, so the "H" type tuners would drop in.  No mention of difficulty from him, so I assume the reports that if your guitar fits a template there will be no installation issues are correct.  When I picked up the guitar, a quick test in his quiet shop indicated the tuners worked, but took about the same amount of time for them to tune as I would have needed by hand.  Hmm, okay, out of the shop and back home....

There are 3 sets of instructions available:  a teeny-tiny installation manual that comes with the tuners, a 2-page quick-start guide which must be downloaded from www.tronical-components.com, and a 40-page full instruction manual which must also be downloaded (I HATE that!).  READ THE MANUAL and CONFIGURE YOUR SYSTEM to match your guitar before making any quality calls!!!  For example, it does make a difference if the unit is installed on an electric vs. acoustic guitar; default is electric, so I changed that.  The system is capable of complex adjustments and the available keys are multi-use, so again READ THE MANUAL before going into detail.  There are other things like gain settings, accuracy of tuning, tuning speed etc. that influence each other- take your time and understand what you are doing- done properly, you should only need to configure once (I guess this is like setting up your hex pickup- tiny differences can have a huge influence).  Another part of this is deciding HOW you want to strum when tuning, since the system apparently likes to get the same type of input- Tronical recommends strumming close to the neck, using ALWAYS EITHER your thumb, finger or pick.  I decided to use my thumb; I use a pick maybe 80% of the time, but picks can vary according to the tuning, mood etc. so that was a no-go.  My thumb is always there, haha (at least I hope it will be), and using flesh instead of nail should give me the best consistency.  In principle you start off with choosing your tuning (won't go into a step-by-step lesson, check out the manual), strum once and then pluck each single string that hasn't turned green yet (damping the other strings speeds things up).  When all strings are green, the unit shuts itself off.  I've checked the tuning (I have the standard setting) and it settles 100% aligned with my TC-Helicon VoiceLive 2 GTX; my ears are satisfied at this point.  I lowered the sensitivity a bit, which they say you should do in loud settings; the live test must follow, but I did stand in front of my speaker with music playing and tuned without problems.  I'm about 95% sure I should have no issues live, keeping my fingers crossed  ;).

There are 18 possible presets available in 3 banks of 6.  I was worried about having to remember which one is where, but they seem to have not done a bad job of arranging them and I believe I won't need the chart in front of me for too long.  Examples:  bank 1, with the low "E" lit up is standard tuning; bank 2 with low "E" is open E.  Bank 1 with "D" lit up is standard tuning one whole step down; bank 2 is open D.  Those are the four tunings I am virtually guaranteed to use during a solo gig, good to go!  Bank 1 also has drop D and double drop D, which I also use frequently- got it!  The open G is basically the same as my banjo tuning with 2 lower strings available; the other tunings are fun to mess with and inspire me to noodle around, which is great.

My luthier charged the battery, he didn't know for how long, I must have gone through 100 different tunings in the past day or so and the battery light is still green.  With a bit of common sense there should be no worries whatsoever about getting through a gig.  You can also tune manually, btw- if you have a 3/3 arrangement note that the machines tune in the opposite direction for the D, A and E strings.  I found that actually didn't bother me in practice.  I did just now break a string during tuning going from 1 step down to open E, maybe after the wild tuning orgy I've been in the past day I shouldn't be surprised- and that is not more often than when I tune manually...  The break was on the G string close to the tuner, I will watch to see if any trend develops.  A report on string replacement will also follow as soon as I get to it.

This is NOT a strum and ignore, it'll tune itself piece of gear, it is mechanical, not digital like Antares, Roland or Line 6- but I can't use the digital tunings for my acoustic instruments shows due to the clash of the digital and real-life guitar strings (I think at least part of my audience would hear it too).  You do need time to get adjusted to the unit, and you do need to watch and pluck as necessary to ensure that all lights go green.  I don't see the necessity of this unit for somebody who basically plays in the same key all the time, but if you retune as much as I do on stage and take multiple guitars to save tuning time (not for tonal differences!) this can easily save you from taking at least one instrument along.  It indeed effectively tunes the guitar from open D to standard tuning in less than half the time than I would need by hand.  I'm pretty sure I'll keep it....

Finally, please remember this is an initial impression; I will report more once I get the finished guitar back and have had it at at least one gig!
Take what you need, put back a bit more, leave the place behind you better than it was before :-)

www.majiken.rocks

Elantric

#59
If you are keeping score

Back in 1994 - there was the Transperformance Tuning System  from Colorado, used by Jimmy Page and Sonny Landreth

Today its known as the Axcent Tuning System
http://axcenttuning.com/

Yet remains a bit pricey
http://axcenttuning.com/sales.html


Tronical invented their version of Robotic tuning in 2005, called "Power Tune" and in 2007  Gibson placed a major order with Tronical for their 1st generation Robotic tuning system which required a Piezo Bridge and custom isolated tail piece for the strings to carry power and data control signals to the headstock tuners.
http://www.gibson.com/namm2007/PoweTune.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibson_Robot_Guitar
These were known and marketed globally as the 2006-2007 era Gibson Robot guitars



In 2008 Tronical teamed with Echo Audio to produce the Gibson Dark Fire
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=1403.msg7473#msg7473

  - which added a GK 13 pin Output to drive VG-99/ GR-55, and a multichannel Firewire Interface ( RIP BOX)

with one audio channel per string, for hexaphonic processing using Ableton Live and 6 instances of N.I. Guitar Rig - one per string.

2009-2011 subsequent Gibson models arrived - Dusk Tiger, Les Paul LTD, which also included updated versions of the Gibson Dark Fire hardware.

2011-2012 the Gibson Firebird -X arrived  - with Bluetooth remote pedals   

In late 2012 Tronical revealed their "new" "Tronical Tune system - which placed all components  - (including the battery) on the headstock. This killed the need for a Tronical piezo Bridge sensors and internal CPU board and battery and placing power and ground and data signals on the strings.

In 2013 the Tronical Tune began shipping on many Gibson's - rebranded as Gibson Min-ETune system.

In Late 2014, Gibson changed the name to Gibson G-Force - claiming new firmware
QuoteGibson G FORCE™
Building on eight years of continuous development, G FORCE extends the innovations introduced in Min-ETune by including new firmware that greatly improves ease of use. Combined with increased speed and accuracy, G FORCE provides the best and simplest user experience yet in an automatic tuning system.

Tronical now markets these as "Tronical Tune Plus" with new updated firmware and features
http://store.tronical-components.com/
http://store.tronical-components.com/

Elantric

See attached for brief chart describing Tronical Tune version 2.33

I have the USB programmer to perform these updates, sorting out if I can offer a firmware update service for other Tronical Tune / Min-ETune owners   - stay tuned!


Majiken

Ah, so THIS is the software they were talking about when they said the unit is updateable! now owning an officially purchased unit I should be able to download it directly, whereby I really don't need 18 more tunings- and let's be realistic: mechanically jumping from double-drop C to open E is going to both rape your strings and test the limits of any wood-body guitar setup. I can see it being useful for those who like to play in the lower tunings and regions who are not likely to retune an acoustic so drastically; if you want both on the same instrument, then I would recommend going digital tuning on a solidbody.

BTW, I just played my first live gig with the Tronicals on my acoustic mentioned previously, and I am satisfied, hands-down! Showed it to my audience as I tuned from open E to standard at the end of the first song, telling them it was a fine example of modern German craft (I live in Germany), and they were impressed :-D. It tunes faster and as accurately as I can, the battery loads fast and holds for I don't know how many gigs yet on a single charge. I may post something on my website or Youtube (if I can find my cam), I am that impressed. Even my luthier is, begrudgingly, haha- now we just need to get our hands around the string changing mode, and all will be tops!
Take what you need, put back a bit more, leave the place behind you better than it was before :-)

www.majiken.rocks

Elantric

#62
Quoteunit is updateable! now owning an officially purchased unit I should be able to download it directly,


But there is a catch.

You need a special Tronical "Update-Adapter" USB programming Jig.

I possess one.

These are extremely rare ,only supplied to beta testers.


Majiken

Golly gosh, so do they expect users to take the unit off the guitar and send it in somewhere???? How jive is that? 

Good thing at least that I don't feel the urgent requirement to upgrade.... >:(
Take what you need, put back a bit more, leave the place behind you better than it was before :-)

www.majiken.rocks

Elantric

QuoteGolly gosh, so do they expect users to take the unit off the guitar and send it in somewhere???? How jive is that? 

I voiced this same issue with Tronical back in 2012 when i was beta testing.

Unfortunately the micro USB port on the Tronical Tune / Gibson Min-Etune is a "charge only" connection - zero data. The separate  Tronical "Update-Adapter" USB programming Jig is required to perform any future firmware update

http://www.artistrelations.com/literature/TronicalTune-software_update-procedure.pdf

Majiken

Think I'll get in touch with them directly and give them "sweetbread and the whip," as the Germans say- great piece of kit, but they have got to come up with a realistic upgrade possibility for field users! Now, their website makes no mention of the upgrade yet- I'll tell them I got the info here, okay?
Take what you need, put back a bit more, leave the place behind you better than it was before :-)

www.majiken.rocks

Elantric

They are calling the update firmware version 2.33

Tronical Tune Plus
http://www.tronical.com/downloads/


whippinpost91850

So they don't supply or sell the updater?

whippinpost91850

let me know I would certainly be interested. Having been a Luthier, guitar repairer and builder for nearly 45 yrs. It kinda grinds my a** when I can't get te tools to do something myself ???

Majiken

And in today's age where software upgrading is a key marketing feature and online upgrading is User 101 in the meantime, this is about as bassackwards as it gets :-[
Take what you need, put back a bit more, leave the place behind you better than it was before :-)

www.majiken.rocks

Majiken

Please report how the upgrades work out. Is there anything therein that woul compel someone who doesn't need the dropped tunings on their particular guitar to update?  Thanks.
Take what you need, put back a bit more, leave the place behind you better than it was before :-)

www.majiken.rocks

Elantric


Elantric


Tronical Bens

Quote from: Majiken on February 24, 2015, 11:41:04 PM
Please report how the upgrades work out. Is there anything therein that woul compel someone who doesn't need the dropped tunings on their particular guitar to update?  Thanks.

Hi guys,

the software update is not available to the public as Tronical can't guarantee the new software 2.3.2 or 2.3.3. to work with the old hardware of Min-ETune/TronicalTune.
The latest device G-Force/TT+ has improved hardware which should increase performance in connection with the latest software 2.3.2.
Also 2.3.2 is the latest software for TT+. 2.3.3 is only important if you have a left-hand or reverse headstock system.
You Rock - We Tune

Elantric

#74
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=21686.msg156593#msg156593

Majiken wrote>
QuoteLast report item is about the Tronical tuning system.  I have the "old" 18-preset version on my 1992 Taylor 810, and while it was mostly fine, easily 50% of the time I would tune just before the last green light went out and it shut itself off the low e-string would tune itself a tiny bit sharp.  Drove me crazy (and due to the locking element on the heads it drove my luthier nuts as well).  I complained to the guy at the Tronical stand, and he admitted that there was a lot of identical feedback on the old system!  Their new 36-preset system apparently solved that problem, and he said I could get a new PCB unit as a drop-in for a reasonable price.  He then showed me their newest system, which has bluetooth and an app, and should be out before the end of this year.  The stringing has been approved, so full detunes for work on the guitar should be much easier (sorry for the bad picture):