Roland / Boss COSM Output Modes

Started by rocks_are_stupid, April 20, 2015, 02:14:58 PM

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rocks_are_stupid

The output selection on this pedal surprised me, since each choice made a huge difference on the sound and it's rather unclear what is the best choice (despite the fact they are named)

the headphone/line output selection sounds better on my small amp than it does with headphones

the small amp output selection sounds better when going into the desk than it does on a small amp


This seems to be another factor that shapes the sound in a way I don't want it to.
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Elantric

#1
I always use my GP-10 into a flat response PA cab and leave Output Mode on  "Line/Phones"

Read
Amplification recommendations for DSP Modeling systems
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=230.0

Learn common features of most Roland / Boss Multi-FX

Read COSM library docs for best understanding of each Output setting


Read ALL the docs in the Roland COSM Library thread  - has links to PDF docs that explain all VG/GR/GP/GT features in far greater detail
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=88.0


Roland GS-10 COSM dynamic processor
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=88.0;attach=68

Roland GS-10 COSM Speaker
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=88.0;attach=69

Boss_GT-x_Set-up_v02.pdf
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=88.0;attach=462


Boss_GT-8 Brilliance.pdf
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=88.0;attach=464


Boss GP-10 F.A.Q.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11796.msg85343#msg85343

Elantric's Tips and Blog: https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=6125.0



MusicOverGear

I do exactly what Elantric does. When I first got the GP-10 I programmed patches through the actual monitor I use in janky clubs/productions with inadequate holdback facility. But after a while I decided programming on similarly "flat" recording desktop monitors was close enough.

I used to wish it had a "Custom" preset that you could manipulate to tune up to a room, but I eventually relaxed on that position, too. I figure if I'm doing my own monitor and the room is shitty, nobody else cares, so I might as well just please myself.

For dark sounding patches I sometimes build in a way to make it brighter with a treadle. I use a MIDI expression pedal that comes in on CC#16 and if I don't need to adjust anything the patch stays where I programmed it at home. If I need extra brightness the patch only starts changing when I start moving the treadle.

HTH
Michael

Elantric

#3
QuoteFor dark sounding patches I sometimes build in a way to make it brighter with a treadle. I use a MIDI expression pedal that comes in on CC#16 and if I don't need to adjust anything the patch stays where I programmed it at home. If I need extra brightness the patch only starts changing when I start moving the treadle.

I'll add that after you connect a EV-5 pedal to the GP-10, many of the stock presets already use EXP2 as a foot controlled Tone control

Surprised many GP-10 owners never launch Boss Tone Studio Editor and browse each of the Factory patch's settings and the Control Assignments - thats the fast track to understanding your GP-10



Graham G

#4
Are the COSM pre-amp models optimised for Full Range Cabinet or Guitar amp playback?
Cheers,Graham.

MusicOverGear

#5
Well, there's the manual answer and then there's the IRL answer. Manual (and interface) give you a way to select full range, or a few different types of amps, and on each guitar amp you can select whether you're going into the front or the return.

However IMHO it is designed to use all the onboard modeling and go into a full range system, whether headphones or a big production setup or a recording interface or your own computer or whatever.

My guess is that the inclusion of EQ curves for guitar amps is just a survival tool for people who want to add to an old-school guitar rig without converting all the way over to modeling.

Here's another unsolicited, free opinion (worth every penny): the time for holding on to tube amps is over. IMHO the only thing you're going to retain by using tube amps for a typical show or recording is back injuries and maintenance downtime. I have all my amps stacked up in storage, like the gang in Toy Story 3, awaiting an uncertain fate that seems more certainly lonely with each passing day.

You know that thing of playing trio with a Princeton, where the sound is kinda omnipresent, not inside the box? Everything is like that on the GP-10. It's real vibey and juicy and nice AND easy to hear in a mix. IMHO if you're on the fence about guitar amp for full range, chuck your guitar amp over the fence and don't look back.

Elantric

#6
Set the Output Mode as needed

Watch here


Graham G

Thanks,for the replies.
Quote from:  Elantric on April 25, 2015, 09:34:24 AM
Set the Output Mode as needed

Watch here


Elantric,Thanks for the Video,really good information,for an old novice ;D,i did know about selecting the output mode,for the relevant input types.
I'm trying to establish if i should set the GT100 for F/R in both F.O.H. & stage sound,at the moment i am using JC120 out into my Cubes then line out from the Cubes to the Mixer,the sound in the PA isn't quite there for my taste(a bit bottom heavy & ponderous) plus the stage volume is a bit too loud & i'm finding it difficult to maintain the patch gain structure,when i turn down the cubes,to the required volume,(i've posted about this in another section,but no response).
I'm wandering if would i find it easier to work with F/R speakers(powered monitors?)on stage,then feed into the band PA system.

Quote from:  MusicOverGear on April 25, 2015, 07:06:05 AM
Well, there's the manual answer and then there's the IRL answer. Manual (and interface) give you a way to select full range, or a few different types of amps, and on each guitar amp you can select whether you're going into the front or the return.

However IMHO it is designed to use all the onboard modeling and go into a full range system, whether headphones or a big production setup or a recording interface or your own computer or whatever.

My guess is that the inclusion of EQ curves for guitar amps is just a survival tool for people who want to add to an old-school guitar rig without converting all the way over to modeling.

Here's another unsolicited, free opinion (worth every penny): the time for holding on to tube amps is over. IMHO the only thing you're going to retain by using tube amps for a typical show or recording is back injuries and maintenance downtime. I have all my amps stacked up in storage, like the gang in Toy Story 3, awaiting an uncertain fate that seems more certainly lonely with each passing day.

You know that thing of playing trio with a Princeton, where the sound is kinda omnipresent, not inside the box? Everything is like that on the GP-10. It's real vibey and juicy and nice AND easy to hear in a mix. IMHO if you're on the fence about guitar amp for full range, chuck your guitar amp over the fence and don't look back.

MusicOverGear,your sort of preaching to the converted with Modelling,i've been using the Modelling generation Cubes for about 9 years,up to changing to the Cubes, i've used Valve Amps since i started playing a LOOONG time ago,my last Valve amp was a Tone Master head & 2 x 12 & i mostly agree with you,but i'm not sure about giving up my Guitar amps all together,hence the post.
Regards,Graham.

Fusion

#8
Wondering if any of the GR Shaman have tried or are able to frequency analyze and db level test the various output modes on the 55?
I find the most full range is the line/phones as I run into a mixer from the 55. From the mixer I run TRS into my EV stereo rig. Output on the 55 is extremely high set just half way on the master and overall patch level around 75-80. The mixer serves to help me control the high output from the 55's mains. Discovering without getting another BBE unit at line level capability the 55 is too much for my instrument level model.

Wondering what the EQ roll off and overall db level might be on other modes as it compensates for the output amp rig?
Be nice data to know and understand on the unit in case another output mode might be more suitable.

"Long ago in days of old when magic filled the air..."

Elantric

Create a neutral flat response patch, then Run separate sweeps for each Output Mode type and plot the results.

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=88.0;attach=921

Fusion

#10
I do not have the ability to do it.
Seems like a noteworthy data document to have that Roland seems to have not bothered to test or at least pass it on.
"Long ago in days of old when magic filled the air..."

PRSplayer

Hi VGForums
First poster here.. I've actually owned the GR55 for a few years, I bought it when it first came out. Used it for a while, then moved on to a band where I just played guitar/amp in a bar band. Now I'm back to a situation where the GR55 is in my lineup again. I've tried different amp/speaker setups, and the one I like the best at the moment is GR55 into my Marshall VM combo. and I have a question..
The Output Select menu in Systems has a variety of options.. Line/Phones, Combo, etc., which allows me to choose the correct output for the gr55 to amp combination. As I was scrolling through the different settings, I noticed that there really isn't any volume change between the settings, there's more of a tonal change.. some settings are darker than other settings. Overall, I seemed to prefer the Lines/Phones option.
My question is.. is there any real difference between the settings? What I mean is, is there any actual db change between the settings. Is there some internal function in the GR55 which makes the Combo setting better for my amp than the Line/Phones setting. Or does the GR55 somehow sense the input impedance of whatever it's plugged into, and adjust for that.
I certainly don't want to blow out the preamp of my amp with a hot signal, but as I said, the different settings don't seem to change the volume of the signal going to my amp.
Any response would be appreciated.. maybe a link to some document/post that would explain this in more detail.
Thanks folks..

Elantric


PRSplayer

OK, I got it. So the Line/Phones is actually the full range setting, and the other settings are more frequency limited to account for various amps. Thank you..

Elantric

#14
Exactly


Elantric

#15
QuoteI still wish I knew the EQ curve and output curves for the various output modes, be nice to know that as well. I lack the PC software DAW and whatnot to check it.
None of you cats have looked into that? Wish I had that sort of software.

Real Time Audio Analyzer?
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=54.0




Fusion

I really do not have step one of DAW and software to grasp any of this stuff. I know what it all is, but I do not have any software in that direction.
I recently downloaded Presonus Studio One 2 for free but have not begun to use or understand it. Getting into the home studio thing is another whole realm of issue for me. Not sure how deep I want to really pursue it.
I thought perhaps I would like the stand alone Tascam units verses the PC thing which I find rather daunting to even comprehend. Recording is a whole another level to get into and I do not want to get into another money pit as nothing profitable is going to come out of it. I am far too old to fret over being a success in music these days. Not sure my poor brain can handle some of the stuff the Pro Tools and whatnot chaps get into. Takes too much time away from just playing and creating music for me. I am really just a guitarist I do not fancy myself a recording engineer. Took me months to comprehend and get the GR55 sufficiently figured out I am sure something like Pro Tools would short my brain out. If I were 30 again I would be all over it but back then things were still tape and rather simple now it is truly rocket science. I would like to mess with creating some multi track pieces but it would be just a goof, maybe to pass on to my kids as to where their Dad was with music. As for making CDs and the band thing that ship sort of sailed for me.
"Long ago in days of old when magic filled the air..."

Elantric

#17
QuoteI really do not have step one of DAW and software to grasp any of this stuff. I know what it all is, but I do not have any software in that direction.
Start slow - there are low cost DAW apps that are easier to use

Totally New To Recording, Need some guidance
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4515.msg30517#msg30517

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=10484.msg75805#msg75805


http://tweakheadz.com/the-noobs-and-beginners-guide-to-the-home-and-project-music-studio/

Fusion

Well, just to report, installed Presonus Studio One 2 and it stopped my floorboard editor from working, had to uninstall it.
I am not pursuing a PC recording DAW thing as I just do not want to got that route.
I could not begin to understand a thing about that software and the help manual as so lacking it was rather pointless. I just dumped it, I do not care for the whole PC virtual mixer thing, just way too much computer stuff for my tastes. I want to play not work being a PC sound engineer.

At some point I will probably get a self contained Tascam 32 track that can burn CDs, and some Radial Reactor DI's that can tap speaker lines, as mics again are expensive and they change the sound, I think most think a mic is like the human ear which is just way off, they alter the sound drastically.
The whole recording thing is just way too expensive for me to get into very far. Maybe just the Tascam some DI's and just basic. i cannot justify the money pit as there is zero return on net assets, I am not going to attain a career at my age so it is all for a goof. I am more interested in the spectrum analyzer sort of testing than I am messing with PC recording. I was used to the old school analyzers and pink noise methodology I am too much an old dog to start at 101 on PC stuff.

"Long ago in days of old when magic filled the air..."