RC300 - That's When I Realized You Can Have 6 Loops Per Patch. And Other Stuff.

Started by Threeleggedyoyo, January 16, 2013, 12:10:27 AM

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Threeleggedyoyo

Good gracious me. I was staring at the RC-50 manual looking for something else and then it suddenly hit me: with the right wiring, you can get 6 freaking loops per patch out of this thing.  :o Yes, it will work on the RC-300 also.

Remember how you can route to separate amps because stuff that goes into R and L come out of R and L in Stereo mode? Yeah.

The setup:

-- Stereo Mode.
-- All inputs routed into an external mixer
-- Mixer out sends a mono signal with everything on it. It goes to an A/B switcher.
-- The A/B switcher sends two mono outs. Each with everything on it. One to the R IN and one to the L IN. If you want, you can also split the AUX, since that's a stereo input.


-- One mono cable coming out of the L MAIN out.
-- Another mono cable coming out of the R MAIN out.
-- Both these cables into an A/B switcher box
-- A single cable into your speaker system from the other side of A/B Box 2.

BOOM. A/B boxes 1 and 2 now switch you between Phrases 1-3 and Phrases 4-6. (or, think of them as Phrases 1A-3A and 1B-3B). Each phrase is split into two channels, L and R.

Instructions:

1) A/B Box 1 toggles input to Phrases 1-3 or 4-6.
2) A/B Box 2 toggles playback to Phrases 1-3 or 4-6.

This gives you several options. They will make your brain hurt. AND YOU'LL LIKE IT.

6 Loops Per Patch

That's twice as many as 3.

Silent Inputs

Record a part in a Phrase that isn't currently playing (but you can hear it through your Headphones monitor, you sly dog).

Use it to get a part just right before you introduce it, or to complete several overdubs before the audience hears any of it.

Now add A/B/Y to the Mix, You Crazy Looping Fool

Loop Combine

You were just playing Phrase 1. But then you hit "Y" on the output to play A and B at the same time... you just combined Phrases 1 and 4!

Super Undo

The process above can also be thought of as a second Undo. You can take away the left or right channel at any given time, no matter how many overdubs you've done. You could have several parts there, or just one that you want to take away and bring back later, even in Single mode.

Fade via Mixer

If you want to, you could fade between phrases if you used a mixer instead of an A/B/Y for the A/B output. That could have some interesting fade in/out implications. Or goof around with the pan like a DJ and fade parts in and out rhythmically. Hmm... the stereo effects on the 300 are rather interesting all the sudden.


Caveats:

-- Anything put into the MIC jack will end up on Phrases 1-6 (that is, 1 AND 4, 2 AND 5, or 3 AND 6). The MIC jack always records to both channels. Then again, that gives you some cool options. You could record to those two Phrases at the same time and have separate other stuff on each channel to switch between. Which means... Hybrid Mode!

-- You are stuck in Mono. Sorry.

-- You can't clear Phrase 1 without clearing Phrase 3, etc. Unless you make judicious use of Undos.

------------------

Alternatives:

I actually found myself wondering if a similar effect could be achieved with the L and R PAN functions on each loop. I haven't tested it yet, but I've been wondering:

1) If you are in MONO mode and you pan, what happens?
2) If you are in Stereo mode but only using the MONO jack out and you pan, what happens?
2b)If you're using Stereo L and R inputs?

All this might have implications that could make the Output A/B/Y not be needed through the use of an EXT pedal for Panning... not sure.

So there might be more internal ways, also... but anyway.



Clearly I've been staring at all this too long. But I keep finding things. How can I stop looking!?!


Dang, now I won't be able to sleep...

Syph

I just found out that you can only give one good karma point to someone per hour....

DAYMN!!!!

Elantric

Threeleggedyoyo

Exellent concepts worth knowing - thanks for posting.

Zymos


papabuss

FENDER STRATOCASTER (1974); BRIAN MAY RED SPECIAL; VG 99; GR 55; Yamaha DX 7

Music was my first love and it will be my last (JOHN MILES)

sean_b


Hopkins

Superb!

Quote from: Threeleggedyoyo on January 16, 2013, 12:10:27 AMI actually found myself wondering if a similar effect could be achieved with the L and R PAN functions on each loop. I haven't tested it yet, but I've been wondering:

1) If you are in MONO mode and you pan, what happens?
2) If you are in Stereo mode but only using the MONO jack out and you pan, what happens?
2b)If you're using Stereo L and R inputs?

I have played with pan controls and mono inputs.  It does what I have dubbed "active pan" (although I expect someone else must have thought to use that phrase).  Basically, if you record in mono then pan to the other side, the track completely moves to the other side, maintaining the apparent volume all the way through the pan.  If you do this to a stereo loop then it will end up with a mono track that is a 50/50 mix of both original channels.  This is opposed to "passive pan", used on hifis, where panning left gradually mutes the right channel.

Cricket

@Threeleggedyoyo - Just have to say... I usually post over in the 55 section.   Still pretty new to the 300 and I'm mostly here reading up for the moment.  Even so, you are a (bad word) genius with this pedal.  Thanks for sharing.

Peace,

C

Psychadelia

I have been experimenting with the whole loop panning idea, and built off the whole mixer+ab box idea with a few findings:   

1) panning the phrases into L and R channels has had some rather interesting outcomes... say if I recorded on both channels at the same time, and overdubbed onto say the L channel, then panning the output would gradually mute one side only, which would mean I could adjust the level of the overdub using the phrase pan! very cool!   

2) combing the loop feedback along with 6 loops is by far the most fun you can have with the rc-50... the creative possibilties of bouncing tracks on the fly, and having something repeat on different channels everytime is difficult to set up, but man is it cool! ;)   

3) the RC-50 seems to pan by gradually fading out the opposite channel, so fading L50 will output only the L channel in that phrase, and nothing else. Also, you don't really need a mixer for this, just a dummy plug on the other input, so that the loopstation thinks you're recording in stereo, but it only receives signal from one side.

Hopkins

Quote from: Psychadelia on January 19, 2014, 10:02:21 PM3) the RC-50 seems to pan by gradually fading out the opposite channel, so fading L50 will output only the L channel in that phrase, and nothing else. Also, you don't really need a mixer for this, just a dummy plug on the other input, so that the loopstation thinks you're recording in stereo, but it only receives signal from one side.

Thanks for the info, this is an important distinction then between the RC-50 and the RC-300.  I realise that I did not mention the machine that I was talking about here:

Quote from: Hopkins on February 12, 2013, 02:25:52 PMI have played with pan controls and mono inputs.  It does what I have dubbed "active pan" (although I expect someone else must have thought to use that phrase).  Basically, if you record in mono then pan to the other side, the track completely moves to the other side, maintaining the apparent volume all the way through the pan.  If you do this to a stereo loop then it will end up with a mono track that is a 50/50 mix of both original channels.  This is opposed to "passive pan", used on hifis, where panning left gradually mutes the right channel.

I was specifically talking about the RC-300.

So, in conclusion, if you record a loop only on the left channel and then pan playback 100% right:

1) On the RC-50 you hear nothing.
2) On the RC-300 you hear the recording only on the right channel, at the same volume.

Psychadelia

Quote from: Hopkins on January 20, 2014, 01:04:22 AM
Thanks for the info, this is an important distinction then between the RC-50 and the RC-300.  I realise that I did not mention the machine that I was talking about here:

I was specifically talking about the RC-300.

So, in conclusion, if you record a loop only on the left channel and then pan playback 100% right:

1) On the RC-50 you hear nothing.
2) On the RC-300 you hear the recording only on the right channel, at the same volume.
Now that is interesting... one thing that most seem to have overlooked when discussing difference between the 50 and 300. I think both methods of panning have their merits, the 50 for the 6 track thing, and the 300 for creating a big wall of sound in a single channel, without sacrificing the other channel.

Threeleggedyoyo

Its been a while since I posted this, but someone asked me for a visual of how this is set up. I thought I'd post it here for anyone to see.


dswitkin

Cool stuff!

Under caveats, do you mean to say "You can't clear Phrase 1 without clearing Phrase 4"?